Dee Beckwith status?

#401
#401
jarnol32 said:
I think what has happened is you have a slow kid with an average arm, and a very slow release that is just not sec quarterback material. That’s the reason Chaney was trying to get Haynes King, and that’s the reason Heupel is starting Joe Milton.
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Dumb take
 
#406
#406
BeardedVol said:
UK has not, and does not expect Stoops to be competitive in the conference as a whole. You can't really compare Heupel to Stoops, unless we lower the expectations for Heupel, or Kentucky raises the expectations for Stoops.

Kentucky is perfectly fine with the job Stoops is doing. Would you be fine with keeping Heupel for 8+ seasons if during that time he only had one winning SEC record, and never had a win over Florida/Georgia/Alabama?
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In the current landscape of the SEC (not factoring in OK and TX, pods, etc.), I think a solid expectation from UT football would be 7-5 on the low end to 10-2 seasons on the high-end. Florida and Georgia both have it figured out now. They'll always have a higher ceiling than UT just based on geography We should be the 3rd best team in the East most years though. That gives you wins over: SC, UK, Vandy, and Mizzou. If you get a weak team from the West, that's 5 wins. 3-4 OOC wins and you're looking at 8 to 10 wins most years. That should be our new standard IMO. This all changes if we end up in pods though.

However, a pod w/ UT, Bama, Auburn, UK, and Vandy doesn't put us out to pasture. We just have to be better than Auburn, which could be done. We have a small window to get back to being a respectable brand. If we can do that, Nashville is set to be probably the 2nd to 3rd most fertile recruiting ground outside of Atlanta or South GA/Alabama. That's an advantage we didn't have in the 90s. Silver lining anyways.
 
#407
#407
b_gann said:
In the current landscape of the SEC (not factoring in OK and TX, pods, etc.), I think a solid expectation from UT football would be 7-5 on the low end to 10-2 seasons on the high-end. Florida and Georgia both have it figured out now. They'll always have a higher ceiling than UT just based on geography We should be the 3rd best team in the East most years though. That gives you wins over: SC, UK, Vandy, and Mizzou. If you get a weak team from the West, that's 5 wins. 3-4 OOC wins and you're looking at 8 to 10 wins most years. That should be our new standard IMO. This all changes if we end up in pods though.

However, a pod w/ UT, Bama, Auburn, UK, and Vandy doesn't put us out to pasture. We just have to be better than Auburn, which could be done. We have a small window to get back to being a respectable brand. If we can do that, Nashville is set to be probably the 2nd to 3rd most fertile recruiting ground outside of Atlanta or South GA/Alabama. That's an advantage we didn't have in the 90s. Silver lining anyways.
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I'm just stating, that Stoops is not a model that you can compare Heupel to, because what is expected of him at Kentucky, is not what is going to be expected of Heupel at UT.

I mean in 2019, Stoops got a contract extension out to 2026, after another losing conference record at 3-5, but he beat Louisville for the second year in a row and snagged the Belk bowl, so that was enough for UK.
 
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#408
#408
b_gann said:
In the current landscape of the SEC (not factoring in OK and TX, pods, etc.), I think a solid expectation from UT football would be 7-5 on the low end to 10-2 seasons on the high-end. Florida and Georgia both have it figured out now. They'll always have a higher ceiling than UT just based on geography We should be the 3rd best team in the East most years though. That gives you wins over: SC, UK, Vandy, and Mizzou. If you get a weak team from the West, that's 5 wins. 3-4 OOC wins and you're looking at 8 to 10 wins most years. That should be our new standard IMO. This all changes if we end up in pods though.

However, a pod w/ UT, Bama, Auburn, UK, and Vandy doesn't put us out to pasture. We just have to be better than Auburn, which could be done. We have a small window to get back to being a respectable brand. If we can do that, Nashville is set to be probably the 2nd to 3rd most fertile recruiting ground outside of Atlanta or South GA/Alabama. That's an advantage we didn't have in the 90s. Silver lining anyways.
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Geographically, Bama shouldn't be dominating college football like they are. Clemson shouldn't be the powerhouse they are. UT has the same geographic access to ATL as those programs.

You advocate a level of expectations that essentially gets you to right where we've been. When 7-5 is a "solid expectation"... expectations are just too low. UT should not lose to MU, UK, USCe, or Vandy... period. Just should not happen. Resources, recruiting advantages, money, and pretty much everything else favors the Vols vs those programs. It should NEVER be acceptable for a UT coach to lose to those teams. UT should not routinely lose to pretty much everyone in the West either.

Nothing lasts forever. Not even Saban. He's been amazingly adaptable which has extended his shelf life... but that eventually comes to an end for everyone. He will turn 70 on Halloween.... it won't be long before CFB will hit a reset and everyone scrambles to figure out how to take advantage of post-Saban football.

I say that to say this, keep expectations high. Championship level high. Reject the idea that 5 losses or even less than 9 wins is ever good enough. Otherwise... the time is coming when UT won't be able to afford the maintenance on Neyland. The stands are already not full. It will only get worse if UT becomes what you think is "solid".
 
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#409
#409
BeardedVol said:
I'm just stating, that Stoops is not a model that you can compare Heupel to, because what is expected of him at Kentucky, is not what is going to be expected of Heupel at UT.

I mean in 2019, Stoops got a contract extension out to 2026, after another losing conference record at 3-5, but he beat Louisville for the second year in a row and snagged the Belk bowl, so that was enough for UK.
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Oh for sure. I don't disagree with you at all on UK and Stoops. He's done great there. Given it's location and conference, UK would be hard pressed to ever consistently run above a 6-6 to 8-4 team. He's doing that.
 
#410
#410
sjt18 said:
Geographically, Bama shouldn't be dominating college football like they are. Clemson shouldn't be the powerhouse they are. UT has the same geographic access to ATL as those programs.

You advocate a level of expectations that essentially gets you to right where we've been. When 7-5 is a "solid expectation"... expectations are just too low. UT should not lose to MU, UK, USCe, or Vandy... period. Just should not happen. Resources, recruiting advantages, money, and pretty much everything else favors the Vols vs those programs. It should NEVER be acceptable for a UT coach to lose to those teams. UT should not routinely lose to pretty much everyone in the West either.

Nothing lasts forever. Not even Saban. He's been amazingly adaptable which has extended his shelf life... but that eventually comes to an end for everyone. He will turn 70 on Halloween.... it won't be long before CFB will hit a reset and everyone scrambles to figure out how to take advantage of post-Saban football.

I say that to say this, keep expectations high. Championship level high. Reject the idea that 5 losses or even less than 9 wins is ever good enough. Otherwise... the time is coming when UT won't be able to afford the maintenance on Neyland. The stands are already not full. It will only get worse if UT becomes what you think is "solid".
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I didn't have us losing to any of those teams you mentioned? I'm not sure we're saying anything much different to be honest. I set that as the expectation. If we win those and then 3 OOC games, boom there is 7-5 already. Say we win our big OOC game and one game from the West, boom there's 9-3. I think that's our realistic window at this point. When we had our run, Bama and UGA didn't have their stuff together. If they're rolling, it's tough for us to overcome.

Now, fair point on Clemson. They are closer to Atlanta than us, but they've made their run with a lot of kids that could've realistically been UT kids. We still have a path to legit success here. It's just a lot tougher to get into the old places we recruited due to home schools being more successful now. Nashville will be the key. That's a new factor that wasn't a factor before. We HAVE to get back to some sort of consistency here though. Otherwise, those kids will only know UT as a joke, which we've mostly been over last 10-15 years.
 
#411
#411
b_gann said:
I didn't have us losing to any of those teams you mentioned? I'm not sure we're saying anything much different to be honest. I set that as the expectation. If we win those and then 3 OOC games, boom there is 7-5 already. Say we win our big OOC game and one game from the West, boom there's 9-3. I think that's our realistic window at this point. When we had our run, Bama and UGA didn't have their stuff together. If they're rolling, it's tough for us to overcome.

Now, fair point on Clemson. They are closer to Atlanta than us, but they've made their run with a lot of kids that could've realistically been UT kids. We still have a path to legit success here. It's just a lot tougher to get into the old places we recruited due to home schools being more successful now. Nashville will be the key. That's a new factor that wasn't a factor before. We HAVE to get back to some sort of consistency here though. Otherwise, those kids will only know UT as a joke, which we've mostly been over last 10-15 years.
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You may be right but UT has the ability to be a true national recruiting school. K'ville is a very desirable destination for a lot of reasons.

UT has to have some success within that 6 hour driving window that Dooley talked about. That gets you into TN, Ohio, NC, VA, SC, GA, and pretty close to the DC area. If you can get 70% from there then maybe you go after the long distance recruits next. FL is honestly pretty saturated now. You'd love to get some good players but mostly people are fighting over leftovers with UCF and other G-5 programs having some advantages for those.

If you are talking "realistic now", I buy it. It should not be our goal for the "future state".

IMHO, if Smart ever uses the most advantaged recruiting situation in the country to win championships... it will be trouble for everyone including Bama. IMO, they have more homer instate recruits than anyone... and a lot of high quality ones. They do not have serious in state competition for any of them. Others can compete around ATL but it is tough to pull anyone that UGA wants from any other area of the state. Thankfully, they've been bad at hiring a coach who can do anything about it.
 
#412
#412
sjt18 said:
You may be right but UT has the ability to be a true national recruiting school. K'ville is a very desirable destination for a lot of reasons.

UT has to have some success within that 6 hour driving window that Dooley talked about. That gets you into TN, Ohio, NC, VA, SC, GA, and pretty close to the DC area. If you can get 70% from there then maybe you go after the long distance recruits next. FL is honestly pretty saturated now. You'd love to get some good players but mostly people are fighting over leftovers with UCF and other G-5 programs having some advantages for those.

If you are talking "realistic now", I buy it. It should not be our goal for the "future state".

IMHO, if Smart ever uses the most advantaged recruiting situation in the country to win championships... it will be trouble for everyone including Bama. IMO, they have more homer instate recruits than anyone... and a lot of high quality ones. They do not have serious in state competition for any of them. Others can compete around ATL but it is tough to pull anyone that UGA wants from any other area of the state. Thankfully, they've been bad at hiring a coach who can do anything about it.
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I think we're on the same page for the most part. We have one major factor coming down the pipe that wasn't present before, Nashville. If we are relevant in the next 5-7 years where the new kids respect the UT brand, we could possibly pull 7-10 kids from that area every year. Also, Knoxville is growing. If we can pull 3 quality kids from the local area, we could have 10-15 kids a class from TN. That's a recipe for sustained success... hopefully.

Agree with you on Knoxville being a better market than most.
 
#413
#413
b_gann said:
I think we're on the same page for the most part. We have one major factor coming down the pipe that wasn't present before, Nashville. If we are relevant in the next 5-7 years where the new kids respect the UT brand, we could possibly pull 7-10 kids from that area every year. Also, Knoxville is growing. If we can pull 3 quality kids from the local area, we could have 10-15 kids a class from TN. That's a recipe for sustained success... hopefully.

Agree with you on Knoxville being a better market than most.
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Agree and we haven't even talked about something that could truly be a MAJOR advantage for UT- NIL. NIL truly puts recruiting into the hands of fans, supporters, and alumni.

Let's say Manning agrees to shoot a nationally distributed commercial with a Vol QB or group of Vols.... On the local scale, TN is a mostly captured market for UT if played right and especially for home state recruits. Let a Vol supporter with a business in Nashville sign Merrill to do some commercials then see what that does to recruiting at Brentwood. Repeat that across the state and it could give us something we've never seen... most of TN's best recruits going to UT.

With NIL, it comes down to whether maybe THE most loyal fanbase in the country is willing to support businesses who hire Vols for marketing. I personally think there's more negative than positive with NIL. However it could and should be a huge advantage for UT over a lot of other schools and states.
 
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#415
#415
sjt18 said:
Agree and we haven't even talked about something that could truly be a MAJOR advantage for UT- NIL. NIL truly puts recruiting into the hands of fans, supporters, and alumni.

Let's say Manning agrees to shoot a nationally distributed commercial with a Vol QB or group of Vols.... On the local scale, TN is a mostly captured market for UT if played right and especially for home state recruits. Let a Vol supporter with a business in Nashville sign Merrill to do some commercials then see what that does to recruiting at Brentwood. Repeat that across the state and it could give us something we've never seen... most of TN's best recruits going to UT.

With NIL, it comes down to whether maybe THE most loyal fanbase in the country is willing to support businesses who hire Vols for marketing. I personally think there's more negative than positive with NIL. However it could and should be a huge advantage for UT over a lot of other schools and states.
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Great point on NIL. It'll help other SEC schools too for sure, but UT Football is king around here. We can support more than others. It should show our built in financial and support advantages that used to carry us so far.
 
#416
#416
b_gann said:
Great point on NIL. It'll help other SEC schools too for sure, but UT Football is king around here. We can support more than others. It should show our built in financial and support advantages that used to carry us so far.
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I honestly think as you go state by state there is a spread. Bama obviously has state and national appeal but how might that squeeze Auburn out even more as the "little brother"? I don't think MS has the population to make it work well if there were only one school. They have two plus USM who is good at times. Similar for UK and Arkansas.

LSU should get a windfall. UGA doesn't need it but it should help them. IMO, it will hurt both Clemson and USCe. There's a lot of competition in Texas but you would think UTx and TAM would benefit disproportionately. MU has very little in state talent and the Chiefs negatively impact MU's marketability across the state so I don't think they get help.

UT even now has national draw. You see Bama fans across the country now because they're winning. You still see UT gear more so than a lot of other schools in spite of them not winning. I know it is anecdotal but can honestly say that I've seen more UT clothing logos while living in various places across the country than UF logos even when UF was winning championships.

UT is almost like the Cubs in terms of loyalty.
 
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#417
#417
sjt18 said:
I honestly think as you go state by state there is a spread. Bama obviously has state and national appeal but how might that squeeze Auburn out even more as the "little brother"? I don't think MS has the population to make it work well if there were only one school. They have two plus USM who is good at times. Similar for UK and Arkansas.

LSU should get a windfall. UGA doesn't need it but it should help them. IMO, it will hurt both Clemson and USCe. There's a lot of competition in Texas but you would think UTx and TAM would benefit disproportionately. MU has very little in state talent and the Chiefs negatively impact MU's marketability across the state so I don't think they get help.

UT even now has national draw. You see Bama fans across the country now because they're winning. You still see UT gear more so than a lot of other schools in spite of them not winning. I know it is anecdotal but can honestly say that I've seen more UT clothing logos while living in various places across the country than UF logos even when UF was winning championships.

UT is almost like the Cubs in terms of loyalty.
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Yes, almost eerily similar to the Cubs
 
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#421
#421
If we lose another player that never plays and he doesn’t have a true position, did he every really play? Who cares what he does at this point. If he’s a malcontent, send him packing!
 
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#422
#422
beachvol23 said:
If we lose another player that never plays and he doesn’t have a true position, did he every really play? Who cares what he does at this point. If he’s a malcontent, send him packing!
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We should probably just delete this thread. It’s misguiding. There’s no reason to think Dee is considering a transfer.
 
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