Dave Hart on the football program...

#52
#52
BigTCountry said:
People tend to forget that there was a talent spillover into Kiffin and Dooleys teams from Fulmer.
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Huh? You have a corrupted memory. Were there some good players? Yes. But not much if any more than what Jones inherited from Dooley. With the departure of Berry, Crompton, Scott, etc in 2009, Dooley was left with what from Fulmer?

Once that talent diminished our seasons went down hill record wise. we relied on pure coaching and mediocre teams with 2-4 playmakers to win games.
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Those teams primarily had upperclassmen recruited by Fulmer. A big part of why he was let go was that his recruiting effectiveness had dropped off so badly. The trajectory of the program when Fulmer was fired is EXACTLY where it ended up. Kiffin nor Dooley could pull it up... but it was Fulmer that put the program in the ditch.

Fulmer had his day. They were great years. Proud years. But both he and UT held on too long.

Dooley only knew how to keep up for the first half and win games that we were supposed to win.yeah he couldve been okay if he coached the team to success with a W in a big game like Butch did with South Carolina, but he would bring the team out and not make the correct adjustments and say go get gim guys it seemed. Not a bad personality or guy, just couldnt finish.
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If you are that badly undermanned then it is very difficult to "adjust". You can use gameplanning to stay in games for awhile but eventually you can't hang.

By the time he was fired, Dooley's issues went far beyond being unable to finish.

On the other hand, we have a man CBJ that is bringing in talent that Tennessee hasnt seen in a few long years and has a history of above average coaching. Now Im not claiming that hes the guy to get us a NC or win 5 SEC championships, hes got to prove that, but Im sure willing to give him the chance just by the face he is giving Tennessee that the program deserves in a one years time and pulling an upset last year almost two if it wasnt for a fumble. I got so sick of Dooleys were too young and they have a really good team talk. We need to see a 1-3 game improvement this year and then we can get really serious about contending with the big guys next year and so on (not that an upset couldnt happen this year but be realistic were not at the Alabama level). Dont forget what could hold this team back this year that our coaches cant change such as young Oline and alot of young other players and have reasonable expectations. But with the talent he is bringing in we should see some improvements. GBO
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I am for Jones getting at least a 3 year shot. I want him to succeed. I agree that he needs to win 6-8 games this year AND that that is a reasonable expectation if he's a quality coach. But if you are going to complain that Dooley's teams didn't show up for the 2nd half against teams like Bama and Oregon... then how exactly can you give Jones a pass when his teams didn't show up for the 1st qtr?
 
#54
#54
DenmarkVol said:
Mods, can we finally have a squelch button on here for certain members so we don't repeat the mistake of wasting our time reading their posts?
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So hundreds of attacks blaming Dooley fairly or unfairly for various things... is OK. One guy who tries to provide a counterpoint needs to be squelched?

Dooley failed. He's not the cause for all the evil in UT's program. He didn't force Jones to make the coaching mistakes he made last year. He didn't permanently taint the players he coached such that they have to be purged from the program before we can expect to have a winning record again.


I have said this many times and I imagine that Oskie would do the same.... stop bringing Dooley up as an excuse for CURRENT actions and decisions... and no one will have need to argue with you.
 
#57
#57
Asking Hart about the football program and his assessment of a recent hire is like your wife or GF asking you if she looks fat in this dress. You are going to get the standard answer....
 
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#58
#58
I mean did you expect to hear "the program is a shambles and I hear Butch is out cruising the strip for male hookers"? You are going to get "Year 2" answers every time right out of the AD playbook.
 
#59
#59
Oskie Volum said:
And there was a rain delay that sucked the momentum out of the Vols too. When u r the one playing better than u should be that kind of delay hurts.
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That was such horrible luck. It wasn't just the momentum. That delay gave Oregon's coaching staff a chance to coach up the defense on how to play against the unbalanced line formations that we were using to open tractor trailer sized holes in their defense. The only thing more disgusting than the timely delay was that Poole just didn't have the break-away speed to score, even with an enormous hole. Love him or hate him, Dooley had the worst luck I've ever seen his first year.
 
#61
#61
ToptheTerrible said:
Asking Hart about the football program and his assessment of a recent hire is like your wife or GF asking you if she looks fat in this dress. You are going to get the standard answer....
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Actually not, I'm sorta indifferent in regards to Hart at this point (thought he should have BBB)...but Hart talked about making the decision to Change directions(dooley) and etc. It was interesting to listen to, because it wasn't entirely AD speak as usual. I believe CBJ should turn the corner this year/not 2015 in respects to coaching team up in games to pull an upset or 2 and show competetive improvement. I believe CBJ will do it....but it needs to happen this season, not finally win 6 games 2015(BS).
 
#62
#62
There has to be a steady path of improvement each season in order for Jones to achieve longevity here at Tennessee. I am not implying that he must win ten games this upcoming season, but he really needs to improve from 5-7 to keep this project on track. Like Sjt has stated many times before, if he stalls or heaven forbid backslides, the recruiting momentum will stall. While fans that follow the team closely might be able to see beyond the record to see improvement, Johnny Fivestar out in California who is being courted by the top programs in the country probably won't see another 5-7 or worse record as things being on the upswing. So, all of you saying be patient, be prepared, and even be accepting of a 4 or 5 win season need to think about the repercussions of such results.
 
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#63
#63
Doyle Hargraves said:
There has to be a steady path of improvement each season in order for Jones to achieve longevity here at Tennessee. I am not implying that he must win ten games this upcoming season, but he really needs to improve from 5-7 to keep this project on track. Like Sjt has stated many times before, if he stalls or heaven forbid backslides, the recruiting momentum will stall. While fans that follow the team closely might be able to see beyond the record to see improvement, Johnny Fivestar out in California who is being courted by the top programs in the country probably won't see another 5-7 or worse record as things being on the upswing. So, all of you saying be patient, be prepared, and even be accepting of a 4 or 5 win season need to think about the repercussions of such results.
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This.:lolabove: Its wild knowing that there are a great many Vol fans out there that are saying they don't expect improvement this season.....but expect to be in the mix for SEC championship in 2015. How, in the world are we somehow supposed to get there in 2015 without improving this year? It's surreal. It's not a "negavol" thing....it's a realistic thing. no doubt
 
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#64
#64
oregonvol said:
Where else can you show up and tell people "you shouldn't expect us to really accomplish anything for 3 years, while you pay us millions" and have so many fools lining up to kiss your jock? UT football - greatest job in the world.
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Lakers, Knicks, - about half of the NBA; Astros, Royals - about half of the MLB - Titans,Jaguars - about half of the NFL....................:hi:
 
#65
#65
Doyle Hargraves said:
There has to be a steady path of improvement each season in order for Jones to achieve longevity here at Tennessee. I am not implying that he must win ten games this upcoming season, but he really needs to improve from 5-7 to keep this project on track. Like Sjt has stated many times before, if he stalls or heaven forbid backslides, the recruiting momentum will stall. While fans that follow the team closely might be able to see beyond the record to see improvement, Johnny Fivestar out in California who is being courted by the top programs in the country probably won't see another 5-7 or worse record as things being on the upswing. So, all of you saying be patient, be prepared, and even be accepting of a 4 or 5 win season need to think about the repercussions of such results.
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I think that's a pretty astute observation. 6-7 wins and a bowl game is probably the floor for being able to honestly go out and tell recruits "SEE! We are on the up and up!!"
 
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#66
#66
Oskie is to Dooley
As
Lawgator1 is to Obama

Oskie Volum said:
Ok...sooo butt hurting coaches in what is historically one of the least talented pool of players in the region/country?? Idc tmh. People act like the guy didn't sign any Tennessee players, but he did. So obviously he didn't piss all off. Is TN HS ranks coming up..sure, but still won't be able to build a successful team around it. Won't happen for a while either. He was focusing on where he had ties, and they happened to be in highly talent pools too. Also, I really don't put much credence in HS coaches that have more to gain with getting their foot in the door. Especially when they jump on the train to get rid of the guy that doesn't kiss their pinky rings. I do put more in the mother of a current player who was a big fan of the guy, and super vocal about it. Not saying he wasn't a prick, but in business u step on toes.

Also, I don't know why people hate Dooley so much over this. Thank him for it, cause if it weren't for him being upset the HS coaches would have loved whoever we got next. So much put it on CBJ, but at the end of the day anyone that tickled their balls a bit would have made them happy cause they just want a chance they hadn't really had in who knows how long cause it's not like we've been signing a boatload of TN players historically. Not just a Dooley era deal...
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#69
#69
Doyle Hargraves said:
There has to be a steady path of improvement each season in order for Jones to achieve longevity here at Tennessee. I am not implying that he must win ten games this upcoming season, but he really needs to improve from 5-7 to keep this project on track. Like Sjt has stated many times before, if he stalls or heaven forbid backslides, the recruiting momentum will stall. While fans that follow the team closely might be able to see beyond the record to see improvement, Johnny Fivestar out in California who is being courted by the top programs in the country probably won't see another 5-7 or worse record as things being on the upswing. So, all of you saying be patient, be prepared, and even be accepting of a 4 or 5 win season need to think about the repercussions of such results.
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I've yet to see anybody say 4 or 5 wins would be acceptable.
 
#72
#72
Doyle Hargraves said:
So, are you saying a four or five win season should put Butch on the hot seat?
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I was saying I haven't seen anybody say 4 or 5 wins is acceptable, which is what you just posted....
So, all of you saying be patient, be prepared, and even be accepting of a 4 or 5 win season need to think about the repercussions of such results.
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#73
#73
Doyle Hargraves said:
So, are you saying a four or five win season should put Butch on the hot seat?
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Depends...margin of victory, what qtr games are lost, mental toughness, etc

The actual W-L record not always indicative of the coaching staff's performance

Losing games due to lack of discipline, bad attitudes, stupid mistakes, etc are warning signs

We've seen enough bad football the past 8 yrs to know the difference between a good team that caught some bad breaks and a bad team that got lucky
 
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