Dan Mullen thread (merged)

[BeardedVol]

That’s the usual comment made in his support, but if he can’t beat Bama in the West- how’s he going to beat them in the East?

He’s has a losing record against both Georgia and South Carolina while at MSU. If he can’t beat them in the West- hows he going to beat them in the East.

He’s even lost to KY....

Mississippi State Avg Recruiting Ranking under Mullen:27th nationally

Tennessee Avg Recruiting Ranking under Jones:13th nationally

Butch has had more talent to work with at UT in 5 seasons than Mullen has had to work with in 9, and Butch still has a lower SEC and overall win percentage playing in the much easier SECe.

 

[Volstylexx]

Metrics don’t take into context strength of schedule. Give Mullen 6 mediocre teams that Butch has faced for 4 years and let’s see what his record is. On the contrary, put Butch is Starkville facing the SEC west for 4 years and let’s see what Butch’s record is. Even better, let’s see what Butch’s recruiting looks like.

That’s speculation... one can suggest it may be different, but that’s not measurable. The numbers are. If you finish 5th in your division 5 of 8 years, there’s nothing there to suggest you’d ever finish above 2nd or 3rd in the sec east.

 

[Catbone]

There's a difference being 8-4 at a school like MSU in the West and being 8-4 in the East where UF/UGA aren't even at their usual standards.

Thank you

 

[LittleCat]

I’ve thought about it for more than a second... if you apply the standards of gauging success that we apply to Butch- he’s accomplished nothing at MSU. Nothing.

Better division? Sure. But tying for he’s finished in 5th place 5 times. 5!

The answer it literally in front of your face and you refuse to see it.

MSU plays in the same division at Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M, and Ole Miss. It didn't help Mullen the last few years Ole Miss was going crazy under Freeze and Texas A&M hadn't completely fallen apart yet. The West was probably at it's best while Butch was over in the East with UGA as the only consistently decent team the last five year.s

 

[Booker512]

Butch Jones = coach of 2nd best SEC team in history.

Dan Mullen = coach of the 14th best SEC team in history. (And that's even after adding Texas A&M---a big 12 bottom feeder---South Carolina: an ACC bottom feeder, to the conference)

The situations aren't the same.

Your trying to equate a man winning a race while driving a Ferrari to a man winning a race in a Pinto, as them being the same situation. They are definitely not the same.

Mullen constantly does more with much much less.

Butch continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The dude was crying and had to take a knee last year after beating an 8-5 Georgia team, that lost to Vandy, and had a brand new HC, playing a freshman QB....act like you've been there before, Butch. Jesus. Tennessee is Georgia's daddy. You should expect to beat Georgia every year like you beat South Carolina and Kentucky....

 

[Volstylexx]

You totally cherry picked. To make him sound worse or equal to Butch, you pointed out one loss to Kentucky but disregarded the 7 wins against them. You also didn’t point out the fact that he’s undefeated vs Vandy. Who isn’t? Butch.

Also, the numbers don’t take into context the division each are in. Butch has by far the easier schedule and recruiting than Mullen. You want numbers? Look at their SEC record since Butch entered the SEC. Butch is 14-19 in the crappt East and Mullen is 17-16 in the much better West.

It’s not cherry picking. He should be beating KY. I’m pointing out that he even managed to lose to KY, while also losing to GA and SC to counter the argument that “he would dominate in the SEC East.” The facts simply don’t support that. Yes he’s 7-1 against KY but he’s also managed to lose to them.

.. and they’ve only played Vandy twice.

 

[JMSqb11]

That’s speculation... one can suggest it may be different, but that’s not measurable. The numbers are. If you finish 5th in your division 5 of 8 years, there’s nothing there to suggest you’d ever finish above 2nd or 3rd in the sec east.

There’s no speculation that I’ve made. You can’t compare him and Butch equally because the conditions of their record are not equal. Tennessee has better recruiting and talent on the roster year in and year out over Mississippi State. That’s fact, not speculation. Tennessee plays much easier competition than Mississippi State. That’s fact, not speculation.

So if Butch is 14-19 in his SEC career (33 games) with much better talent/recruiting and a much easier schedule and Mullen is 17-16 since Butch entered the league with much worse talent/recruiting and much harder schedule, it’s not speculation that Mullen would fare better at Tennessee than Butch because Mullen has done better than Butch by the numbers with much less.

There’s zero speculation to that.

 

[Volstylexx]

The answer it literally in front of your face and you refuse to see it.

MSU plays in the same division at Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M, and Ole Miss. It didn't help Mullen the last few years Ole Miss was going crazy under Freeze and Texas A&M hadn't completely fallen apart yet. The West was probably at it's best while Butch was over in the East with UGA as the only consistently decent team the last five year.s

So explain why he lost to teams in the SEC east during that time span?

And how’d they lose to northwestern by 14 in a bowl game? And what about that squeaker of a win 17-16 over the mighty Miami of Ohio redhawks last year.

Your argument would hold more weight if he had been dominating out of conference games, and dominating sec east teams... but he hasn’t. As a result, the strength of the SEC West is irrelevant.

 

[LittleCat]

It’s not cherry picking. He should be beating KY. I’m pointing out that he even managed to lose to KY, while also losing to GA and SC to counter the argument that “he would dominate in the SEC East.” The facts simply don’t support that. Yes he’s 7-1 against KY but he’s also managed to lose to them.

.. and they’ve only played Vandy twice.

Losing once to UK in 8 years is unforgivable to you but Butch going winless in four+ years against the West is fine?

Okay.

 

[Booker512]

How many Heisman QBs or #1 overall pick QBs has Butch coached up?

How many national championship teams has Butch ran the offense for?

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[JMSqb11]

It’s not cherry picking. He should be beating KY. I’m pointing out that he even managed to lose to KY, while also losing to GA and SC to counter the argument that “he would dominate in the SEC East.” The facts simply don’t support that. Yes he’s 7-1 against KY but he’s also managed to lose to them.

.. and they’ve only played Vandy twice.

There’s nothing in history, or how you like to say “numbers”, that says Mississippi State should be beating Kentucky constantly. If you look at the historical numbers, it’s quite the opposite. When Mullen took the job UK led the series 21-15. Since Mullen took over, the series is 22-22.

Once again, you pointed out one loss to compare to Butch being 4-0 to them. Yet when I point out he’s undefeated vs Vandy, you say he’s only played them twice to Butch’s 4 games. The love for Butch is strong in you.

 

[Volstylexx]

There’s no speculation that I’ve made. You can’t compare him and Butch equally because the conditions of their record are not equal. Tennessee has better recruiting and talent on the roster year in and year out over Mississippi State. That’s fact, not speculation. Tennessee plays much easier competition than Mississippi State. That’s fact, not speculation.

So if Butch is 14-19 in his SEC career (33 games) with much better talent/recruiting and a much easier schedule and Mullen is 17-16 since Butch entered the league with much worse talent/recruiting and much harder schedule, it’s not speculation that Mullen would fare better at Tennessee than Butch because Mullen has done better than Butch by the numbers with much less.
There’s zero speculation to that.

That is the pure definition of speculation!

Speculation - “ a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation” as a result making an assertion that’s impossible to verify.

 

[LittleCat]

So explain why he lost to teams in the SEC east during that time span?

And how’d they lose to northwestern by 14 in a bowl game? And what about that squeaker of a win 17-16 over the mighty Miami of Ohio redhawks last year.

Your argument would hold more weight if he had been dominating out of conference games, and dominating sec east teams... but he hasn’t. As a result, the strength of the SEC West is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter how you win when you win. I can cherry pick games as well that would show Butch is lucky enough to be winning 8 or 9 games a year.

You're the one who brings up Mullen's SEC record, then it promptly is put into context by everyone else, and then you back your flawed argument up by saying Mullen should never lose against East teams? Lol, okay.

Going 6-6 every year at MSU would be impressive enough in the West. Certainly more impressive than Butch racking up 8 wins in the East against Mizzou, Vandy, USCjr, and Kentucky.

 

[JMSqb11]

That is the pure definition of speculation!

Speculation - “ a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation” as a result making an assertion that’s impossible to verify.

You’re the one speculating their equals when the conditions of comparing them are not equal. You’re whole thread is pure speculation.

 

[LittleCat]

That is the pure definition of speculation!

Speculation - “ a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation” as a result making an assertion that’s impossible to verify.

Speculation would be saying Butch would win 8 or 9 games a year in the West because he did it in the East.

However, it would be fact to say he's never won a single game against the West in over four years.

 

[Volstylexx]

There’s nothing in history, or how you like to say “numbers”, that says Mississippi State should be beating Kentucky constantly. If you look at the historical numbers, it’s quite the opposite. When Mullen took the job UK led the series 21-15. Since Mullen took over, the series is 22-22.

Once again, you pointed out one loss to compare to Butch being 4-0 to them. Yet when I point out he’s undefeated vs Vandy, you say he’s only played them twice to Butch’s 4 games. The love for Butch is strong in you.

I've said nothing about Butch being a better coach. In fact, i've said nothing at all in support of Butch. I've only shown that the numbers support the fact that Mullen is almost statistically the same as Butch.

If the goal is to get TN back to the top - why hire a guy who hasn't accomplished anything in 8 years at MSU?

 

[JMSqb11]

Speculation would be saying Butch would win 8 or 9 games a year in the West because he did it in the East.

However, it would be fact to say he's never won a single game against the West in over four years.

OP ain’t smart.

 

[Booker512]

I've said nothing about Butch being a better coach. In fact, i've said nothing at all in support of Butch. I've only shown that the numbers support the fact that Mullen is almost statistically the same as Butch.

If the goal is to get TN back to the top - why hire a guy who hasn't accomplished anything in 8 years at MSU?

Go nail a nail into a block of wood.

Then go nail a nail into a block of concrete.

Come back and tell us how hard it was to do to each thing.


Then apply that to Butch vs Mullen.

Butch has been driving nails into wood.
Mullen has been driving nails into concrete.

Context is a mother******

 

[Volstylexx]

Speculation would be saying Butch would win 8 or 9 games a year in the West because he did it in the East.

However, it would be fact to say he's never won a single game against the West in over four years.

and Speculation would be saying Mullen would win the East because the West is a much stronger division.

However, it would be fact to say he's lost several games against the SEC East, consistently barely beats KY, and has never won the SEC West, and finished in 5th place 5 of 8 years as the head coach.

 

[LittleCat]

I've said nothing about Butch being a better coach. In fact, i've said nothing at all in support of Butch. I've only shown that the numbers support the fact that Mullen is almost statistically the same as Butch.

If the goal is to get TN back to the top - why hire a guy who hasn't accomplished anything in 8 years at MSU?

 

[JMSqb11]

I've said nothing about Butch being a better coach. In fact, i've said nothing at all in support of Butch. I've only shown that the numbers support the fact that Mullen is almost statistically the same as Butch.

If the goal is to get TN back to the top - why hire a guy who hasn't accomplished anything in 8 years at MSU?

There not statistically even.

Butch has a 42% SEC win percentage and Mullen has 51% SEC win percentage since 2013 (when Butch entered the SEC). They are no where near the same.

 

[LittleCat]

and Speculation would be saying Mullen would win the East because the West is a much stronger division.

However, it would be fact to say he's lost several games against the SEC East, consistently barely beats KY, and has never won the SEC West, and finished in 5th place 5 of 8 years as the head coach.

Why would Mullen be expected to win the West when he's at MSU and going up against Alabama, LSU, Auburn, etc every year? There's a big difference between those teams and UGA, Donkey Coached UF, and UK/Vandy/USCjr.

Are you honestly that stupid?

 

[Volstylexx]

How many Heisman QBs or #1 overall pick QBs has Butch coached up?

How many national championship teams has Butch ran the offense for?

I'll hang up and listen.

and again.... what has he won at MSU? Clearly the guy can coach QB's... but what has he won?

Butch is a great recruiter... but what he has won at UT? Nothing of significance... just like Mullen.

 

[JMSqb11]

and Speculation would be saying Mullen would win the East because the West is a much stronger division.

However, it would be fact to say he's lost several games against the SEC East, consistently barely beats KY, and has never won the SEC West, and finished in 5th place 5 of 8 years as the head coach.

So since you lost the argument, you’re now saying 7-1 against Kentucky isn’t good because he “barely beats them every year”? Also, the average margin of Mullen’s 7-1 record vs UK is 11 points. Didn’t realize a two possession margin qualified as barely beating someone.

 

[Volstylexx]

Why would Mullen be expected to win the West when he's at MSU and going up against Alabama, LSU, Auburn, etc every year? There's a big difference between those teams and UGA, Donkey Coached UF, and UK/Vandy/USCjr.

Are you honestly that stupid?

i'm not insulting your intelligence am I ? Don't get so upset over a conversation.

Sure, one could easily say "Why would Mullen be expected to win the West?" But shouldn't he finishing greater than 5th in the divison?? Lose to AL, LSU, and Auburn EVERY year and you still should be no worse than 4th in the division. He can't even do that consistently... which suggests he loses games that are well within the talent/capability of the team to win.