Dabo vs Butch

#251
#251
MWAVolfan said:
The amount of time you spent trying to argue with me greatly outweighs the amount of time it would have taken to go back 3 pages at most to see my comments. It's far easier to just put words in my mouth and move on.

You can't really directly compare HC record to HC record because Jones was at a traditional powerhouse football program and Franklin was at freaking Vanderbilt.

There is no oversimplification in the fact that Franklin did more with less at both Vanderbilt and Penn State. He also beat Jones and Jones beat him so at best that's a wash and doesn't negate the fact of Franklin's accomplishments when compared to Jones given the resources and talent each had to succeed with and given the programs they inherited.
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I get it guy....you love you some Franklin.

I guess you cuss out announcers every week when they have a HC that is now with another team facing another HC that he has played in previous years....and they suddenly mention his record all time record vs the other regardless of previous teams....because you think it is irrelevant...but it is a record...good or bad it is a record...that is hysterical.

Also....Butch was at Tennessee...not a powerhouse...just Tennessee. He has built this roster up to be on the verge of being a powerhouse again...but he never faced Franklin with Fulmer's 90's and early 2000's powerhouse Tennessee. Just below average Tennessee.
 
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#252
#252
JFreak said:
Actually a majority of TN fans are in the wait and see mode with Butch. The negas are nothing more than a vocal and small minority.
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Personally I've seen enough of CBJ to form my opinion of his coaching ability. 4 seasons, is plenty of time for him to showcase what he is capable of doing at UT. Unfortunately he seems to have done all that he can do here given the talent level the had this season, and the down state of the SECe, so in his own words, "next man up".
 
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#253
#253
JFreak said:
What about when he beat a ranked Spurrier coached USC team with vastly inferior talent? Also, keep in mind that Spurrier > Dabo.
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I would agree by going on the field, head-to-head, because I'm a believer in every game counts. I think Dabo is 2-5 against Spurrier. However, like Spurrier he's won one National Championship and played for another.
 
#255
#255
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
I get it guy....you love you some Franklin.

I guess you cuss out announcers every week when they have a HC that is now with another team facing another HC that he has played in previous years....and they suddenly mention his record all time record vs the other regardless of previous teams....because you think it is irrelevant...but it is a record...good or bad it is a record...that is hysterical.

Also....Butch was at Tennessee...not a powerhouse...just Tennessee. He has built this roster up to be on the verge of being a powerhouse again...but he never faced Franklin with Fulmer's 90's and early 2000's powerhouse Tennessee. Just below average Tennessee.
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You still completely sidestepped my original point.

Butch inherited a better program than Franklin, Butch had better access to talent and vastly better resources to win with yet Franklin produced better results. And now he's basically repeating the same thing at Penn St.

You can come back here in 2 years, and 5 years, and 10 years and my summation of the two will be exactly the same. Butch will never ever be a better coach than Franklin.
 
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#257
#257
JFreak said:
Also....Butch was at Tennessee...not a powerhouse...just Tennessee. He has built this roster up to be on the verge of being a powerhouse again...but he never faced Franklin with Fulmer's 90's and early 2000's powerhouse Tennessee. Just below average Tennessee.
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Jones had 2 top 5 classes in 14' and 15' that he got a lot of praise for. (rightly so at the time) I don't keep up with general attrition rates across the country everybody has it to varying degrees, but that class seems to have been hit pretty hard by natural attrition early and now some early NFL departures in their JR season. Couple that with a 15th or so ranked class last year and another that will probably land between 12-15 this year and this roster is not moving toward anything but the middle of the pack in the conference.
 
#258
#258
MWAVolfan said:
I started in '86, so technically 31 seasons. Tennessee has 4 more wins.

Doesn't change the argument that more is expected of Tennessee than Clemson. I'm sure a die hard Clemson fan might argue that but no one else would. It's easier to have losing seasons and take longer to build a program at Clemson. It's also harder to recruit, or at least it was when Dabo started there. The tide has turned because we have had 2 crazy bad hires in a row. But there is way more pressure to win in the SEC and way more is expected there. All of history matters because people include all of history in the schools winning tradition. There really isn't a comparison there.
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Convenient, but still wrong

past 30 years

UT 253-117-4 (67.6 %)

Clemson 254-120-1 (67.7%)

86 UT was 7-5 / Clemson 8-2

in that time span Clemson's had 4 losing seasons and UT 7.

Go back to 85 and it gets a closer.

We agree that UT has a superior and storied history since the begining. Not sure everyone coast to coast would say Tennessee is an easier place to go, win and be consistently successful.

I grew up and went to college in NC/SC...once Danny Ford got there, won an NC and had them winning repetitively...things changed and remained fairly consistent over the past 40 years.
 
#259
#259
Wylo said:
Again, we only judge coaches vs. teams they're favored to beat?


Vandy
USC jr


You don't seen to understand how coaches are judged.
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fair enough....as long as all coaches are judged accordingly.

if that's the case, there is not one, single, solitary coach in the game today or past that qualifies as great.
 
#261
#261
JC61 said:
fair enough....as long as all coaches are judged accordingly.

if that's the case, there is not one, single, solitary coach in the game today or past that qualifies as great.
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All coaches are judged accordingly. Every program has goals and standards they expect to meet, two different schools two different expectations. What do you think the expectations are for a coach like PJ at W Mich cause I promise you undefeated seasons aren't the standard set there. A program like Tennessee with the money that we have in facilities and the tradition more is expected. For instance Sabans talent pool at Alabama wasn't stocked before Saban, yeah its Alabama so talent was there. A coach like Saban went 7-6 first year at Alabama, second year 12 wins. That is coaching flat out coaching, hasn't been under 10 wins since. Great coaches can strategize and win that is the difference between great coaches and mediocre coaches. Just for the record I'm not comparing butch to saban, lets be real there is not much comparison there. Again not bashing Butch but just basing it on the stats.
 
#262
#262
jonnon111 said:
So if/when CBJ beats Saban one single time, you will never b@@@@ again?

Noted.
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Lmfao, they act like he's beat him every time they played. Great post!

Tell you what negavols, have him come over to the SEC and play him every year and possibly twice. Then all we would hear is crickets.
 
#263
#263
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Lmfao, they act like he's beat him every time they played. Great post!

Tell you what negavols, have him come over to the SEC and play him every year and possibly twice. Then all we would hear is crickets.
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Yeah, he would have a difficult time with coaches like Mischamp, Mason and others too.
 
#265
#265
The better comparison is Jones v Majors. Both took over a dumpster fire of a program, and one (Majors) could not get us over the hump. It seems as if the other (Jones) may be in that same camp. Flame away all Majors apologists...
 
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#266
#266
volfannbama said:
Yeah, he would have a difficult time with coaches like Mischamp, Mason and others too.
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Well he certainly had problems the last few seasons with coaches named Narduzzi, Richt, and Johnson. Needed a last second missed FG to beat Doeren as well.
 
#271
#271
JFreak said:
That your sarcastic post above about Muschamp and Mason was flawed.
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How is that. The post im replying to is indicating that CDS wouldnt be able to be a successful coach in the SEC because Saban coaches in the league, which is simply wrong. As to your post, everyone has close games, good coaches figure out how to win them on a consistent basis.
 
#273
#273
volfannbama said:
How is that. The post im replying to is indicating that CDS wouldnt be able to be a successful coach in the SEC because Saban coaches in the league, which is simply wrong. As to your post, everyone has close games, good coaches figure out how to win them on a consistent basis.
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You implied that he'd run over the SEC due to the low quality of their coaches. That is wrong. Unfortunately, we'll never get to see for sure.
 
#274
#274
JFreak said:
You implied that he'd run over the SEC due to the low quality of their coaches. That is wrong. Unfortunately, we'll never get to see for sure.
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Outside of Saban the quality is gone

Meyer - gone
Richt - gone
Miles - gone
Spurrier - gone
Franklin - gone

Clemson would own the east.
 
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#275
#275
JFreak said:
You implied that he'd run over the SEC due to the low quality of their coaches. That is wrong. Unfortunately, we'll never get to see for sure.
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No i didnt, the original argument was that CBJ would win 10 games every year in the ACC, which there is nothing to indicate that is so. But i think Clemson would do very well in the SEC, the beat and were competitive with what is by far the best team in the SEC. But to be fair, they did get a scare from South Carolina at 56-7.
 
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