Dabo vs Butch

#102
#102
Remy said:
Yes. This was both their first jobs in a power 5 conference though. Also hard to do to much other than compare hard #s. Why? Dabo inherited a somewhat stocked roster as he competed for his conference title in his year 2, not his own players. CBJ inherited a roster not well stocked consequently development comparisons hard to make, stuff like that. However the fact remains, both when given the opportunity to coach at the power 5 level, in their respective year fours, both rolled in with 9-4 records. Are you one of those butthurt over the facts? They are what they are none of us should read too much or too little from them, they're just there staring us in the face.
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I didn't remember Tommy Bowden recruiting much, if not any better than Dooley.
 
#104
#104
smokey0625 said:
Florida, ga two years in a row which hasn't been done since fulmer, va tech was a really good win. You're mad. I get it. Be honest though. If you hold the first two years against Jones then you are forgetting the hole we were in before him.
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Please keep perspective. Ive have said over and over that CBJ deserves another year, maybe two based on what he has done. and yeah, its easy to overlook the first two years due to the state of the program. But it is fair to look at it in terms of setting a trend of what CBJ is capable of.

Yeah, Florida was a good win due to the way it happened. But a very strong argument can be made we should have beaten Florida for the last 3 years. Beating a mediocre UGA team two years in a row, signature wins...? Okay. VT is a good win signature win ? No not given the talent level and them having a new coach.

A good coach overachieves somewhere, CBJ has not shown that throughout a season. I get that you have lowered the expectations of the program to the point were beating losing to a bad Florida team for two years in a row, turns a win into a signature win. That's okay if you chose to view it that way. I don't.

My view on the first season, we all knew it was going to be bad. However, if CBJ were a good coach we beat Vandy and overachieve, go 6-6 to a bowl game. But we didn't...fast forward 4 years and 4 top tier recruiting classes, we still haven't developed enough talent to beat a bad Vandy team.
But this gets away from the original point that if Tennessee were in the ACC they would win 10 games every year, and nothing indicates that is true.
 
#105
#105
volfannbama said:
I didn't say the ACC bottom dwellers are getting better and the SEC bottom dwellers are not. I said that it is not likely Tennessee would win 10 games a year in the ACC and use the fact that they cant do it in the SEC as evidence. SEC dominance is over. I know its a difficult concept to let go for older heads, but its over. Outside of Alabama the SEC is mediocre at best, and saying a mid tier SEC team would dominate any other conference is a lazy argument based on no logic.

And sure. Here you go.
2017/01/09 Alabama 31 - Clemson 35 L !! CFP Championship !!
2016/12/31 LSU 29 - Louisville 9 W !! Citrus Bowl !!
2016/12/31 Kentucky 18 - Georgia Tech 33 L !! TaxSlayer Bowl !!
2016/12/29 Arkansas 24 - Virginia Tech 35 L !! Belk Bowl !!
2016/12/26 Vanderbilt 17 - North Carolina St 41 L !! Independence Bowl !!
2016/11/26 South Carolina 7 - Clemson 56 L
2016/11/26 Kentucky 41 - Louisville 38 W
2016/11/26 Georgia 27 - Georgia Tech 28 L
2016/11/26 Florida 13 - Florida St 31 L
2016/09/17 Vanderbilt 7 - Georgia Tech 38 L
2016/09/10 Tennessee 45 - Virginia Tech 24 W
2016/09/05 Mississippi 34 - Florida St 45 L
2016/09/03 Georgia 33 - North Carolina 24 W
2016/09/03 Auburn 13 - Clemson 19 L
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Im going to throw bowl games out whether a W or L with a month to prepare. FSU and Clemson are suppose to beat anybody in our conference not named Alabama so they are thrown out.

What you end up with is a good GT team that can beat you no matter of being up or down running the triple option.
 
#106
#106
smokey0625 said:
Motivation was a problem there. Defensive non cohesiveness was an issue. But losing is never ok to Vanderbilt.
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So you are saying CBJ is showing the inability to manage the program throughout a season to meet or exceed reasonable expectations? Cause that's how I view it.
 
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#108
#108
The difference between the two is Dabo is willing to hire coordinators and let them run their defense or the offense and bring in the guys they need to do so. Dabo trusts his coaches, yeah I'm sure he plays a role in what goes on but I'm willing to bet he is flexible. Don't get me wrong I am not bashing Butch everybody has their own philosophy, I am just stating my opinion on what I believe the difference is. If Butch won the east this year we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, I think the saving grace for Dabo was he was able to win the ACC, now I think he can probably stay at Clemson for however long he wants to.
 
#109
#109
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Im going to throw bowl games out whether a W or L with a month to prepare. FSU and Clemson are suppose to beat anybody in our conference not named Alabama so they are thrown out.

What you end up with is a good GT team that can beat you no matter of being up or down running the triple option.
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Wait.....only certain games count now? You've got to be kidding?
 
#112
#112
Behr said:
Context.

I can't argue the ACC is better than the SEC this year. It is.

His post was about the "bottom dwellers" in both conferences. So I guess that would depend on who are considered bottom dwellers. After you agree on who those are in each conference, look at the 10-4 again.

I wasn't even going to bother with it until my friend Wylo made his comment.
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The original argument was that Tennessee would win 10 games in the ACC each year. Nothing indicates that to be true, but my arguments show that its probably not true. Doesn't matter how we consider bottom feeders or not. There are a lot of good teams in the ACC and at some point in a 13 game season Tennessee would have to play several of them. Being that Tennessee cant manage 10 wins in a comparable conference, its probably fair to believe they couldn't do it in any other power 5 conference.
 
#113
#113
Wylo said:
Vandy x2, Muschamp x every time, and the entire SEC West disagree with you.

Also, keep trying to milk that hail Mary vs. Georgia as anything but a miracle. It looks good on you.
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Good post. I like the way someone else presented Butch's record;

14-18 SEC record

2-2 vs Vandy

1-3 vs Florida

2-2 vs Georgia

0-4 vs Bama

0-4 vs rest of West division

Dropped in recruiting rankings

Not even in top 5 recruiting in the SEC.

Again, this thread could be titled Roadrunner vs Coyote
 
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#114
#114
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Oh you mean the Independence bowl where NC State had a month to prepare and we had 20 injuries with a week to prepare, yes that's comparable. Lol
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Spin all you want. You guys keep touting "20 injuries".

They didn't all happen in the same week.

And if it takes Jones and his brain trust a month to plan for Vanderbilt with a major talent advantage despite the injuries, they aren't cut out for the SEC.

In hindsight, you're right in one respect, the two games aren't really comparable.

NC State dominated Vandy from the whistle to the final gun. Jones couldn't even get his team to show up for the second half.
 
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#117
#117
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Im going to throw bowl games out whether a W or L with a month to prepare. FSU and Clemson are suppose to beat anybody in our conference not named Alabama so they are thrown out.

What you end up with is a good GT team that can beat you no matter of being up or down running the triple option.
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Look at it who ever you want. The ACC is at a minimum, comparable to the SEC currently. So saying a mid tier SEC team would win 10 games each year in the ACC is simply a reach. Its a statement based on the tired old argument of SEC dominance meant to make people
feel better about the current state of the Tennessee football team.

Here is a good argument on it.
ACC football vs. SEC football | Jan. 10, 2017 | News & Observer
 
#118
#118
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Yes terrible Vandy of the 90's in your head still, we know.
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You mean the Vandy that lost 41-17 to NC State?

Or is it the Vanderbilt that lost 38-7 to GA Tech?

That GA Tech score should get everyone's attention heading into next season but it won't.

Half of the posters on here will be chanting whatever BS slogan Jones comes up with next season. I'll go ahead and lump you in with this group.
 
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#119
#119
volfannbama said:
Please keep perspective. Ive have said over and over that CBJ deserves another year, maybe two based on what he has done. and yeah, its easy to overlook the first two years due to the state of the program. But it is fair to look at it in terms of setting a trend of what CBJ is capable of.

Yeah, Florida was a good win due to the way it happened. But a very strong argument can be made we should have beaten Florida for the last 3 years. Beating a mediocre UGA team two years in a row, signature wins...? Okay. VT is a good win signature win ? No not given the talent level and them having a new coach.

A good coach overachieves somewhere, CBJ has not shown that throughout a season. I get that you have lowered the expectations of the program to the point were beating losing to a bad Florida team for two years in a row, turns a win into a signature win. That's okay if you chose to view it that way. I don't.

My view on the first season, we all knew it was going to be bad. However, if CBJ were a good coach we beat Vandy and overachieve, go 6-6 to a bowl game. But we didn't...fast forward 4 years and 4 top tier recruiting classes, we still haven't developed enough talent to beat a bad Vandy team.
But this gets away from the original point that if Tennessee were in the ACC they would win 10 games every year, and nothing indicates that is true.
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I agree with this, I believe Butch's future at Tennessee will be decided this year. Butch got outcoached several times this year and we are fortunate to have finished with a 9-4 record. The GA game and Florida game even the opener against Appy could have all went very different. But he managed to win those games. The SC loss and Vandy loss are inexcusable in your 4th year, that's the difference between coaches that win championships and coaches that win 8 or 9 games a year. Didn't mean to get off topic but good post.
 
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#122
#122
Dabo comes across a little corny and over the top, but I think that's just his real personality.

Butch is an insecure man trying to play hard ass.
 
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