Current O-Line=bad fit?

#1
zjcvols

zjcvols

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#1
Was thinking about why our run game has struggled. And I think maybe a reason could be the players and the scheme.

Chaney runs a zone blocking scheme for the running game. I watched a video from Alex Gibbs (some consider him the "father of the zone run game", he was the Denver Broncos O-Line coach during the Broncos' two super bowl seasons) and says you must have a agile, quick offensive line. You block areas in a zone, and you must be able to be quick off the snap and find your man. You have to be able to beat your man to the spot/area in which you are blocking.

Well, look at our starting O-line weight:

Richardson: 332 lbs
Fulton: 324 lbs
James: 323 lbs
Thomas: 310 lbs
Stone: 300 lbs

Those are big boys. I noticed some today that the lineman don't have extremely quick feet laterally. They do move back well in pass protection and do well in that area.

I wonder if maybe our current O-Line and the scheme doesn't fit. It just surprises me we have such a good pass blocking team, but our run blocking team is so mediocre.

What do you think VN?
 
#3
#3
Ron Swanson said:
It's not the OL. It's the RB's.
Click to expand...

I do think it's part of the issue, but I'm not sure it's the biggest issue. We still can't get a push consistently.

Why do you say it's the RB's? (Not arguing, just curious).
 
#5
#5
zjcvols said:
Was thinking about why our run game has struggled. And I think maybe a reason could be the players and the scheme.

Chaney runs a zone blocking scheme for the running game. I watched a video from Alex Gibbs (some consider him the "father of the zone run game", he was the Denver Broncos O-Line coach during the Broncos' two super bowl seasons) and says you must have a agile, quick offensive line. You block areas in a zone, and you must be able to be quick off the snap and find your man. You have to be able to beat your man to the spot/area in which you are blocking.

Well, look at our starting O-line weight:

Richardson: 332 lbs
Fulton: 324 lbs
James: 323 lbs
Thomas: 310 lbs
Stone: 300 lbs

Those are big boys. I noticed some today that the lineman don't have extremely quick feet laterally. They do move back well in pass protection and do well in that area.

I wonder if maybe our current O-Line and the scheme doesn't fit. It just surprises me we have such a good pass blocking team, but our run blocking team is so mediocre.

What do you think VN?
Click to expand...

Spot on. I was telling my friend I was watching the game with I believe it's Chaney's blocking scheme that is the problem, but they pass protect well. I noticed the O- LINEMAN did not get to the LB'S that is important when run blocking.
 
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#7
#7
Could have a valid point here. In Kiffin's yr in 09 we also ran a zone scheme that to me ran the ball fairly well. Part of that might have been due to the smaller line we had that yr. The Sullins' twins were both a shade under 300lbs if i recall.
 
#8
#8
I'm watching these big, fast, slasher UGA RBs get stuffed.

It's not personnel. It's play calling.

Just move the D around and the holes open up.
 
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#9
#9
Our RB's would rather run east-west than north-south, although you do have a point. We've got a huge offensive line for what is essentially a spread/pro hybrid.
 
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#10
#10
zjcvols said:
Was thinking about why our run game has struggled. And I think maybe a reason could be the players and the scheme.

Chaney runs a zone blocking scheme for the running game. I watched a video from Alex Gibbs (some consider him the "father of the zone run game", he was the Denver Broncos O-Line coach during the Broncos' two super bowl seasons) and says you must have a agile, quick offensive line. You block areas in a zone, and you must be able to be quick off the snap and find your man. You have to be able to beat your man to the spot/area in which you are blocking.

Well, look at our starting O-line weight:

Richardson: 332 lbs
Fulton: 324 lbs
James: 323 lbs
Thomas: 310 lbs
Stone: 300 lbs

Those are big boys. I noticed some today that the lineman don't have extremely quick feet laterally. They do move back well in pass protection and do well in that area.

I wonder if maybe our current O-Line and the scheme doesn't fit. It just surprises me we have such a good pass blocking team, but our run blocking team is so mediocre.

What do you think VN?
Click to expand...


The size of our line and installing zone principles never made much sense to me.

but, I'm not the coach.
 
#11
#11
WiseOlVol said:
I'm watching these big, fast, slasher UGA RBs get stuffed.

It's not personnel. It's play calling.

Just move the D around and the holes open up.
Click to expand...

I just don't see how's it is "play calling" in terms of he's calling bad plays. I mean, you see plays designed to go inside, but either a) the backs cut it outside stupidly or b) the o-line doesn't get a push.
 
#12
#12
Carl Pickens said:
Current RBs are average at best
Click to expand...

Partly the OC as well. Don't get me wrong. I like Chaney, and I think overall he schemes a good game plan, and obviously with the skill players we have at QB and the WRs, the passing game is our bread and butter. But I've noticed in 2 games now, that more often than not, in 3rd and/or 4th and short, we run out of a single back alignment, and usually to the right side of the line. And it seemed like a couple of times today we ran either Young or Watson, our 'little' backs, on 3rd and short. I also noticed on the 3rd and 1 that we converted, Bart was in at FB, Lane was the RB, and we ran off left tackle behind Tiny.
 
#13
#13
KingNick865 said:
Our RB's would rather run east-west than north-south, although you do have a point. We've got a huge offensive line for what is essentially a spread/pro hybrid.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Dooley believes you have to have a huge monster O-Line to run in the SEC, and continues to recruit that despite Chaney's zone blocking scheme.
 
#14
#14
there is definitely something wrong ,i don't know if it is the scheme,the players or the play calling,from there size they should be able to bull doze players out of the way,but they don't,there should be big open holes,but it is rare,or it could be the running backs,which we all know is a huge glaring spot for the Vols,we don't have a so called down hill runner,it seems to be numerous things,the OL coach ,RB coach and OC need to get on the same page for sure
 
#15
#15
Whatever it is they need to fix it fast. We have got to have a respectable run game to beat SEC teams.
 
#17
#17
A quality back would rush for 2000 yards with this line. Worst bunch of backs I have ever seen at UT.
 
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#18
#18
Disagree with op. I just think the real problem is identity. It is difficult for a line to be great at both pass protection and run blocking. And we obviously are very good at pass protection. We are getting better at run blocking as well but are a passing offense. And an explosive one at that
 
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#19
#19
Ron Swanson said:
It's not the OL. It's the RB's.
Click to expand...

That and what formations we choose to run out of. The pistol formation needs to be thrown in the trash heap. And I would like to see us mix it up under center to keep the opposing defenses off balance. It becomes predictable when you only run from under center and never throw the ball.
 
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#20
#20
zjcvols said:
I wonder if Dooley believes you have to have a huge monster O-Line to run in the SEC, and continues to recruit that despite Chaney's zone blocking scheme.
Click to expand...
I've wondered this myself. I think what Dooley wants to do doesn't quite match up with what Chaney wants to do. Kinda makes me wonder why he didn't get a new OC during the Great Vol Exodus of last Winter that more closely fits.
 
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#21
#21
sanddune50 said:
That and what formations we choose to run out of. The pistol formation needs to be thrown in the trash heap. And I would like to see us mix it up under center to keep the opposing defenses off balance. It becomes predictable when you only run from under center and never throw the ball.
Click to expand...

I disagree with the last part. I want to say we had 7-10 runs out of the shotgun and a decent amount of passes from under center. We only threw 20 times today anyways.

I wish we had a mauler at FB too.
 
#22
#22
zjcvols said:
I wonder if Dooley believes you have to have a huge monster O-Line to run in the SEC, and continues to recruit that despite Chaney's zone blocking scheme.
Click to expand...

It's possible. After all, this isn't the type of offense he would want in a perfect world. He's a Saban guy. He wants to run out of the I and have two TE's and a FB in there.
 
#24
#24
We need to run the ball downhill. That's all there is to it, we should not be running from formations where the CENTER is pulling to run block. It makes us run east west. Our line is built for north south downhill football. All of our success has been out of the I formation and draws from the shotgun. We need to kill the pistol now. That is all :)
 
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