Cultural Marxism and the Birth of Thought Crime

#176
#176
Vol8188 said:
We can go back to that, but let’s start with the drug thing. When you bring up usage rates and arrest rates I assume you’re implying blacks are being arrested for no real reason? Is that a fair assessment?

This is a common left wing lie. They’ll give you a stat like “black people receive more traffic tickets” and you’re supposed to assume it’s because cops are just mean racists. But when you look at violent crimes, you find the same discrepancies. I don’t think anyone believes it’s because racist cops just ignore white homicides do we?
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I'm presenting data and artifacts without comment or with very little comment. What you do with it is up to you.
 
#177
#177
n_huffhines said:
No. Go away, guy who can't even admit that the suppression of speech is suppression of speech.



Nobody said that you waste of time.
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Lol “you can’t say anything you want to a group of elementary students”….”you’re suppressing my speech!”…okay Huff
 
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#179
#179
AshG said:
I'm presenting data and artifacts without comment or with very little comment. What you do with it is up to you.
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Are you claiming no personal opinion of the data or just unwilling to state your opinion?

It seems odd to just randomly post data
 
#180
#180
n_huffhines said:
Wait, you're saying because a small % of blacks are more murderous than a small % of whites, it's justified that all blacks should have to deal with racial profiling stemming from an unjust, anti-freedom, costly, unnecessry war on drugs?

This is why I don't want to talk to you. You're kind of a mad man.
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Wait, you're saying police should ignore groups' criminal proclivities, pretend residents are at equal risk in both, and police them in equal measure?
 
#182
#182
Vol8188 said:
Are you claiming no personal opinion of the data or just unwilling to state your opinion?

It seems odd to just randomly post data
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I don't have the time right now to share my opinion in a meaningful way. Grades are due this Friday and I have several more projects to work through.

What I am doing (besides procrastinating) is reading what all sides are posting, looking up information to attempt to corroborate their position, and then dropping it in as time permits.
 
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#183
#183
hog88 said:
Thanks. I have no problem believing the veracity of the article, it's a damn shame this policy has been continued and even doubled down on through now 9 different administrations.
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It's a useful political football. Provides avenues for government spending and expansion on the left, and opportunities for faux moral superiority on the right. Everyone loses.
 
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#184
#184
Vol8188 said:
Then why? Why are they arrested at a higher rate despite lower usage?
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The why doesn't matter to the point of the conversation. It's complicated, and some of your points help to explain it, but the why ultimately doesn't matter. We want better results. Arguing about why only distracts from the fact that we want better results. And if we try to explain the why, then we're going to have to get into some of the elements of CRT that you don't want to hear or be taught in school.
 
#186
#186
n_huffhines said:
The why doesn't matter to the point of the conversation. It's complicated, and some of your points help to explain it, but the why ultimately doesn't matter. We want better results. Arguing about why only distracts from the fact that we want better results. And if we try to explain the why, then we're going to have to get into some of the elements of CRT that you don't want to hear or be taught in school.
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That’s why I asked you to define unjust. So when you’re saying unjust it simply means “disproportionate outcomes”?

Obviously why matters. If you told me men get arrested at higher rates than women for rape, you should first ask why before proclaiming its unjust.

Have I ever stated I don’t want to personally hear of the elements of CRT? Seems you’re just making things up at this point to avoid addressing the real issue, but your attempt at a strawman was cute.
 
#187
#187
Vol8188 said:
That’s why I asked you to define unjust. So when you’re saying unjust it simply means “disproportionate outcomes”?

Obviously why matters. If you told me men get arrested at higher rates than women for rape, you should first ask why before proclaiming its unjust.

Have I ever stated I don’t want to personally hear of the elements of CRT? Seems you’re just making things up at this point to avoid addressing the real issue, but your attempt at a strawman was cute.
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You said you don't support the war on drugs. Why not?

I strongly oppose the war on drugs, partly because it is unjust. I believe we should be a free society and infringements on our freedom have to be justified. The war on drugs is not a justified cause for denying our basic freedoms to choose what we put in our bodies and what we sell to people to put into their bodies. Therefore, the WoD is wholly unjust.

Every single arrest/charge/incarceration against/of a non-violent drug offender is an unjust act by our government.
 
#188
#188
n_huffhines said:
You said you don't support the war on drugs. Why not?

I strongly oppose the war on drugs, partly because it is unjust. I believe we should be a free society and infringements on our freedom have to be justified. The war on drugs is not a justified cause for denying our basic freedoms to choose what we put in our bodies and what we sell to people to put into their bodies. Therefore, the WoD is wholly unjust.

Every single arrest/charge/incarceration against/of a non-violent drug offender is an unjust act by our government.
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If your definition of unjust is that it infringes on natural rights, then we agree. That is why I oppose the war on drugs. That’s why I asked you to define it to ensure you’re not using justice in the cosmetic/social justice way.
 
#189
#189
Vol8188 said:
If your definition of unjust is that it infringes on natural rights, then we agree. That is why I oppose the war on drugs. That’s why I asked you to define it to ensure you’re not using justice in the cosmetic/social justice way.
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Justice is the government response matching the citizen's action.

Citizen action: [possesses marijuana]

Just Government response: that's none of our business
 
#190
#190
n_huffhines said:
Justice is the government response matching the citizen's action.

Citizen action: [possesses marijuana]

Just Government response: that's none of our business
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I agree, but when you use the term “justice” in this specific thread while referring to racial issues and CRT, it’s important to ensure we mean the same thing. Because that’s not the definition they use
 
#191
#191
Citizen action: [assaults another citizen]

Just Government response: [x punishment]


Citizen action: [assaults another citizen while possessing drugs]

Just Government response: [x punishment]

Unjust Government response: [x*4 punishment]
 
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#192
#192
Vol8188 said:
I agree, but when you use the term “justice” in this specific thread while referring to racial issues and CRT, it’s important to ensure we mean the same thing. Because that’s not the definition they use
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Yeah, you can acknowledge there is injustice only so long as it's not racial injustice.
 
#194
#194
Vol8188 said:
I can acknowledge racial injustice. Never been a problem
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OK, because you've spent all morning arguing against the idea that we have a racially unjust WoD.

the WoD is unjust + the WoD produces results that are clearly racially disproportionate = the WoD is racially unjust

It's that simple
 
#195
#195
n_huffhines said:
OK, because you've spent all morning arguing against the idea that we have a racially unjust WoD.

the WoD is unjust + the WoD produces results that are clearly racially disproportionate = the WoD is racially unjust

It's that simple
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That’s not how that works. Disproportionate outcome is not unjust. Rape laws, murder laws, plenty of laws have disproportionate outcome
 
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#196
#196
n_huffhines said:
OK, because you've spent all morning arguing against the idea that we have a racially unjust WoD.

the WoD is unjust + the WoD produces results that are clearly racially disproportionate = the WoD is racially unjust

It's that simple
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Do you think that before Nixon implemented the WoD that drugs were an issue in minority communities???

Do you think that wide spread drugs use which has proven leads to more violence and crime shouldn't have restrictions???

@AshG
That link from 2014 UofM study doesn't link anywhere about unjust sentencing. There is no way to verify if the cases they studied if priors were involved which has been proven in many such claims...also in another article about Marijuana arrest, did you realize that the discrepancy of rate of arrested didnt change even after states decriminalized and legaized Marijuana. In fact is just allowed possession arrest to align even further with arrest for selling/distribution. Just FYI
 
#197
#197
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#198
#198
whodeycin85 said:
Do you think that before Nixon implemented the WoD that drugs were an issue in minority communities???

Do you think that wide spread drugs use which has proven leads to more violence and crime shouldn't have restrictions???

@AshG
That link from 2014 UofM study doesn't link anywhere about unjust sentencing. There is no way to verify if the cases they studied if priors were involved which has been proven in many such claims...also in another article about Marijuana arrest, did you realize that the discrepancy of rate of arrested didnt change even after states decriminalized and legaized Marijuana. In fact is just allowed possession arrest to align even further with arrest for selling/distribution. Just FYI
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The WoDs has been the biggest driver in the erosion of our individual rights since WWII. You claim a private business requiring vaccines is a violation of individual liberty and rights but support the WoDs?
 
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#199
#199
an expository piece focused on the quote,[22] German Lopez does not address the family's assertion that the quote was fabricated by Baum, but suggests that Ehrlichman was either wrong or lying:

But Ehrlichman's claim is likely an oversimplification, according to historians who have studied the period and Nixon's drug policies in particular. There's no doubt Nixon was racist, and historians told me that race could have played one role in Nixon's drug war. But there are also signs that Nixon wasn't solely motivated by politics or race: For one, he personally despised drugs – to the point that it's not surprising he would want to rid the world of them. And there's evidence that Ehrlichman felt bitter and betrayed by Nixon after he spent time in prison over the Watergate scandal, so he may have lied.

More importantly, Nixon's drug policies did not focus on the kind of criminalization that Ehrlichman described. Instead, Nixon's drug war was largely a public health crusade – one that would be reshaped into the modern, punitive drug war we know today by later administrations, particularly President Ronald Reagan...

"It's certainly true that Nixon didn't like blacks and didn't like hippies," Courtwright said. "But to assign his entire drug policy to his dislike of these two groups is just ridiculous."[23]
 
#200
#200
hog88 said:
The WoDs has been the biggest driver in the erosion of our individual rights since WWII. You claim a private business requiring vaccines is a violation of individual liberty and rights but support the WoDs?
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Never said i support it...i actually never stated either. Simply asked a question
 
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