Crossing/slant routes... can a football guru explain?

#1
KnoxRealtorVOL

KnoxRealtorVOL

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#1
We don’t throw them.

We can’t stop them.

Someone help me out here. Why is this the case? It would stand to reason that we can’t stop them because our QB doesn’t throw them in practice, but is it also our defensive formation that keeps us from stopping them? I just don’t get it.
 
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#3
#3
knox-townVOL said:
We don’t throw them.

We can’t stop them.

Someone help me out here. Why is this the case? It would stand to reason that we can’t stop them because our QB doesn’t throw them in practice, but is it also our defensive formation that keeps us from stopping them? I just don’t get it.
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Crossing routes take time. Something UT QB's haven't had since Tyler Bray. They work best against a zone defense. You must have a QB you trust as high throws over the middle against a zone usually end badly. Look at Peyton vs UGA. They played zone exclusively and he ate them up. Florida played man and could rush the passer. That's a no go for the deep cross. I can't tell you why we don't run slants.
 
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#4
#4
knox-townVOL said:
We don’t throw them.

We can’t stop them.

Someone help me out here. Why is this the case? It would stand to reason that we can’t stop them because our QB doesn’t throw them in practice, but is it also our defensive formation that keeps us from stopping them? I just don’t get it.
Click to expand...

I’ve been saying the same thing all year. There’s definitely a connection between us not using them and our defense not being able to stop them. And virtually every other team uses them. Just another coaching shortcoming imo.
I think it has something to do with how our coaches manage Jg. It’s as if he’s making one of the first starts if his career and he’s a freshman with the way we call the game. The gameplan yesterday was as safe an vanilla as you’ll ever see. We threw a really safe out route on that first play and after than ran 6 straight times (for very little gain) and punted twice. We were down 14 by the next pass we threw and continued with the short out routes.
 
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#5
#5
chattavol420 said:
I’ve been saying the same thing all year. There’s definitely a connection between us not using them and our defense not being able to stop them. And virtually every other team uses them. Just another coaching shortcoming imo.
I think it has something to do with how our coaches manage Jg. It’s as if he’s making one of the first starts if his career and he’s a freshman with the way we call the game. The gameplan yesterday was as safe an vanilla as you’ll ever see. We threw a really safe out route on that first play and after than ran 6 straight times (for very little gain) and punted twice. We were down 14 by the next pass we threw and continued with the short out routes.
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And i have for the last.... years!
 
#6
#6
knox-townVOL said:
We don’t throw them.

We can’t stop them.

Someone help me out here. Why is this the case? It would stand to reason that we can’t stop them because our QB doesn’t throw them in practice, but is it also our defensive formation that keeps us from stopping them? I just don’t get it.
Click to expand...

This is a circumstance of two things on offense. The first being poor OL coaching/play. 2 awful qb play. Oh and a 3rd I forgot poor route combinations by the offensive staff the entire Botch Jones tenure.
On defense it’s schematic and comes from yes lack of repetition at practice and guys being out of place on the field.
 
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#7
#7
JG can't reliably throw them for one. He over throws, under throws, behind, too far ahead, too hard, too soft, you name it. Add on that he stares the receiver down and the linebackers/safeties just lick their lips wanting that ball.

Defensively, we play man almost exclusively, crossing routes are open in man coverage. In zone, the middle is harder to hit and the edges become the open areas, between the under DB and the over Safety.

Short quick slant routes right off the line require very quick coverage from the linebackers seeing it coming. The DB is almost always trailing, the outside backs have to get in front and jam the ball/make the QB pull it and find another target. Ours aren't coverage backers, they are more attacking the line types.

JGs inaccuracy and slow delivery on the very quick snap and throw slant make it a high probability failure play.
 
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#9
#9
Kinglberry said:
JG can't reliably throw them for one. He over throws, under throws, behind, too far ahead, too hard, too soft, you name it. Add on that he stares the receiver down and the linebackers/safeties just lick their lips wanting that ball.

Defensively, we play man almost exclusively, crossing routes are open in man coverage. In zone, the middle is harder to hit and the edges become the open areas, between the under DB and the over Safety.

Short quick slant routes right off the line require very quick coverage from the linebackers seeing it coming. The DB is almost always trailing, the outside backs have to get in front and jam the ball/make the QB pull it and find another target. Ours aren't coverage backers, they are more attacking the line types.

JGs inaccuracy and slow delivery on the very quick snap and throw slant make it a high probability failure play.
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Well said
 
#13
#13
knox-townVOL said:
We don’t throw them.

We can’t stop them.

Someone help me out here. Why is this the case? It would stand to reason that we can’t stop them because our QB doesn’t throw them in practice, but is it also our defensive formation that keeps us from stopping them? I just don’t get it.
Click to expand...
A lot can go into it. Depending on what kind of leverage the defender is utilizing on the perspective receiver that’s running a slant. Slants are usually timing based as well... if an OC has trust issue with the qb they won’t call it. The QB can’t hitch or pump fake a slant else the window closes too fast. Our younger quicker WR can probably get a half yard separation needed. Juan was special because he was able to use his body to box out the defender. We don’t have that this year.
 
#14
#14
Kinglberry said:
JG can't reliably throw them for one. He over throws, under throws, behind, too far ahead, too hard, too soft, you name it. Add on that he stares the receiver down and the linebackers/safeties just lick their lips wanting that ball.

Defensively, we play man almost exclusively, crossing routes are open in man coverage. In zone, the middle is harder to hit and the edges become the open areas, between the under DB and the over Safety.

Short quick slant routes right off the line require very quick coverage from the linebackers seeing it coming. The DB is almost always trailing, the outside backs have to get in front and jam the ball/make the QB pull it and find another target. Ours aren't coverage backers, they are more attacking the line types.

JGs inaccuracy and slow delivery on the very quick snap and throw slant make it a high probability failure play.
Click to expand...
We play a lot of zone now, thus the middle of the field being open 80% of the time as well as poor communication when the receiver leaves one defenders zone going into the next. That’s why people see the linebackers bump the route runner then let them go.. they are playing zone much to the frustration of myself.
 
#16
#16
Seems to me that when JG throws in that area, his receivers are standing still. I've suspected that he's not trusted much with them moving in that area, with his trouble leading the receiver with the throw.
 
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#19
#19
DarkAvenger said:
We play a lot of zone now, thus the middle of the field being open 80% of the time as well as poor communication when the receiver leaves one defenders zone going into the next. That’s why people see the linebackers bump the route runner then let them go.. they are playing zone much to the frustration of myself.
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They are usually playing a hybrid of man DB with zone lb/saf when you see that. As well as the DBS get lost on which guy they are supposed to cover/jam and the guy gets clear. The DBS can't keep up with them through the route pass complete and that's all she wrote. The lbs just aren't very good at any coverage, their zones are extremely small that they can cover which leaves large gaps. The 90s Vols used to convert safeties to linebackers, better in coverage. Linebackers into ends, faster at the edge. Linebackers converted from running backs are better against the run.
 
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#20
#20
Kinglberry said:
They are usually playing a hybrid of man DB with zone lb/saf when you see that. As well as the DBS get lost on which guy they are supposed to cover/jam and the guy gets clear. The DBS can't keep up with them through the route pass complete and that's all she wrote. The lbs just aren't very good at any coverage, their zones are extremely small that they can cover which leaves large gaps. is why the old Vols used to convert safeties to linebackers, better in coverage. Linebackers into ends, faster at the edge. Linebackers converted from running backs are better against the run.
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True. There’s also a lot of people that don’t know that you can split the field with zone/ man assignments. The fact we play Split safety coverage does leave us vulnerable to mesh/slant concepts without stellar LB play. Communication dropped off this year but that’s understandable since it’s Henry’s 1st year and 5th game truly running the defense.
 
#21
#21
Kinglberry said:
JG can't reliably throw them for one. He over throws, under throws, behind, too far ahead, too hard, too soft, you name it. Add on that he stares the receiver down and the linebackers/safeties just lick their lips wanting that ball.

Defensively, we play man almost exclusively, crossing routes are open in man coverage. In zone, the middle is harder to hit and the edges become the open areas, between the under DB and the over Safety.

Short quick slant routes right off the line require very quick coverage from the linebackers seeing it coming. The DB is almost always trailing, the outside backs have to get in front and jam the ball/make the QB pull it and find another target. Ours aren't coverage backers, they are more attacking the line types.

JGs inaccuracy and slow delivery on the very quick snap and throw slant make it a high probability failure play.
Click to expand...

I’m not a coac, just a fan that played some high school years ago. Stoping the slant is possible in man cover as it depends on leverage. Vols seem to always play outside leverage; thus, giving the receiver the inside to run the slant and get open. Additionally, they don’t play up on the receiver to jam him initially coming off the line of scrimmage especially in the slot. Those two adjustments could help with defending the slant route, but it also leaves the defense vulnerable in many other way.
 
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#23
#23
chattavol420 said:
I’ve been saying the same thing all year. There’s definitely a connection between us not using them and our defense not being able to stop them. And virtually every other team uses them. Just another coaching shortcoming imo.
I think it has something to do with how our coaches manage Jg. It’s as if he’s making one of the first starts if his career and he’s a freshman with the way we call the game. The gameplan yesterday was as safe an vanilla as you’ll ever see. We threw a really safe out route on that first play and after than ran 6 straight times (for very little gain) and punted twice. We were down 14 by the next pass we threw and continued with the short out routes.
Click to expand...
It very much does seem to be a case of our current QB causing us to be limited in our play calling abilities. We do not scheme well at all during games and we also are probably easy to prepare for. We don't even have a good route-running, pass catching tight-end,imo. We could set-up a screen pass easily and rarely do we do that. Like many on here, I just don't get it either.

I am trying very hard to be patient and over-reference the Covid excuse. This pandemic simply hampered the development of many of our younger players especially HB. I think the sooner HB can pick-up the play-book and execute a large percentage of it the better off UT will be offensively.
 
#25
#25
A complaint from uga fans the last few years under Chaney was no slants or throws to the middle of the field. Even with fromm being NFL caliber and some pretty good wide receivers and an oline that could give plenty of time, passes stayed to the outside. I don’t know if it’s solely JG’s accuracy and timing issues, or if CJC has just gone away from that over the past couple of years and is just in a rut. His play calling seems predictable, even with a liability at qb.
 
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