Credit to Rick Barnes

#152
#152
bleedingTNorange said:
Bowden has had a way better career than just about anyone could’ve predicted, what was his ranking again? Not sure he’s the evidence you wanna use.
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Dudes regressed to like a 2 star in his senior year. He was a 3 star out of high school. Yeah he is an example I’d like to use
 
#153
#153
walkenvol said:
Lost 2 3year starting seniors. Lost his 2 best returning players unexpectedly to the draft. Started the year with his 3rd best returning player playing injured then ending the season for surgery. His 4th best returning player unexplainable lost his shooting stroke that he’s consistently displayed for 3 prior seasons. These facts aren’t disputable by anyone being reasonable.

Basically playing with a completely new team one of which showed up in January. He’s coached up 2 prior role players into solid SEC posts and he’s trying to get all the freshmen to contribute.

If you’re going to be critical, then about the only complaint of CRB could be “why didn’t he have a class full of one and done types like Duke or KY since he knew he was losing 4 of his top 6 after the draft”. If you think UT is a program that can simply reload every year then you’re not being realistic
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I'm not sure anyone is really upset with how he is coaching this year, it is more about the shape the roster has looked going into the fifth year. I can see it both ways. Ultimately, he will be judged by how next year goes, I think. Anything average, or subpar, and some fans will start to turn on him.
 
#154
#154
bleedingTNorange said:
Yet nobody would have lower expectations if he was making $500k, why is that?
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Because that is the nature of the business & the days of Wade the fade and Buzzball are no more. UT would also never be able to hold on to a coach like Barnes paying 500K either.
 
#155
#155
Alex10 said:
There have been many on here that have said UT doesn’t have the history so this is the best we will ever get. That is also foolish.
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Not sure anyone has said it’s the best we will ever get, just that expectations should be somewhat based off past history.

Dumb example: If you were a car salesman and averaged selling 20 cars a month for the last 10 years, your best month ever was 30 cars sold, would it be fair for your boss to say the expectation is for you to sell 100 cars a month?
 
#157
#157
PEPPERJAX said:
Because that is the nature of the business & the days of Wade the fade and Buzzball are no more. UT would also never be able to hold on to a coach like Barnes paying 500K either.
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Expectations for any coach should be the same, the pay is making sure they stay here.
 
#158
#158
PEPPERJAX said:
Because that is the nature of the business & the days of Wade the fade and Buzzball are no more. UT would also never be able to hold on to a coach like Barnes paying 500K either.
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So we agree that salary and expectations aren’t directly proportional.
 
#159
#159
bleedingTNorange said:
Expectations for any coach should be the same, the pay is making sure they stay here.
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Barnes has a track record of winning. IRRC he has been to final four once at TX & 2 EE appearances. He nearly made the EE with the VOLS last year. Would you have the same expectations if Buzz or Kevin O'neill were still coaching at UT? Those guys never did squat in comparison to Rick.
 
#160
#160
I did not agree with the amount paid to Barnes on his contract but consider it a one time payment to bring stability back to the program after the way Pearl exited and the problems with the next coach. We were not on anyones radar at that point. Barnes has us back on track, SEC championship, #1 ranking, and he parlayed that into multiple 5 star recruits next season. Thats an amazing accomplishment is such a short period of time. He will have the program in good shape and very stable by the time his contract expires. The possibility of a final 4 is there but takes a lot of luck, ask the UK coach.
 
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#162
#162
SGMVols said:
So we agree that salary and expectations aren’t directly proportional.
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Agreed, if coach X makes 500k annually, the expectation would not be in the same realm for coach making 5 million. I did not have the highest expectations for this year because of our departures to the NBA along with so many Freshmen thrown into the lineup, we aren’t duke. Point is, we should have high expectations moving forward while Barnes continues to build the program. Showing our face in the tourney or getting bounced early will not cut it with the monies being paid.
 
#163
#163
PEPPERJAX said:
Agreed, if coach X makes 500k annually, the expectation would not be in the same realm for coach making 5 million. I did not have the highest expectations for this year because of our departures to the NBA along with so many Freshmen thrown into the lineup, we aren’t duke. Point is, we should have high expectations moving forward while Barnes continues to build the program. Showing our face in the tourney or getting bounced early will not cut it with the monies being paid.
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So you were a big Zo fan? Considering what he was getting paid he more than overachieved at Tennessee.
 
#164
#164
bleedingTNorange said:
So you were a big Zo fan? Considering what he was getting paid he more than overachieved at Tennessee.
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I thought ZO did a decent job, however, Barnes is getting paid a lot more than ZO was when he coached at UT. IIRC, Coach Martin made approx 3 mil per year. Barnes is also a better coach & more accomplished. I don’t believe fans are asking too much of CRB for making a deeper tourney run beyond the sweet 16. My two cents. If you disagree, then we agree to disagree. Have a nice day.
 
#165
#165
PEPPERJAX said:
I thought ZO did a decent job, however, Barnes is getting paid a lot more than ZO was when he coached at UT. IIRC, Coach Martin made approx 3 mil per year. Barnes is also a better coach & more accomplished. I don’t believe fans are asking too much of CRB for making a deeper tourney run beyond the sweet 16. My two cents. If you disagree, then we agree to disagree. Have a nice day.
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I’m not comparing to Barnes, I’m saying that if you are claiming expectations go with salary then considering his place among other SEC coaches you must have wanted a statue built for CCM, right? Or does the salary/expectation thing not work both ways?
 
#166
#166
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m not comparing to Barnes, I’m saying that if you are claiming expectations go with salary then considering his place among other SEC coaches you must have wanted a statue built for CCM, right? Or does the salary/expectation thing not work both ways?
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In my previous post, I mentioned that CM did a decent job meaning that he met expectations. No statue required. I don’t recall what CM was making compared to other coaches while he was here. He is no longer here but Rick is. I do know what CRB is making & it is on the same level with some of the best in the business. If ZO was making what Rick is then the expectations would be different at Mizzou. I also believe that fan expectations change based on what a coach has done in their career.
 
#167
#167
PEPPERJAX said:
In my previous post, I mentioned that CM did a decent job meaning that he met expectations. No statue required. I don’t recall what CM was making compared to other coaches while he was here. He is no longer here but Rick is. I do know what CRB is making & it is on the same level with some of the best in the business. If ZO was making what Rick is then the expectations would be different at Mizzou. I also believe that fan expectations change based on what a coach has done in their career.
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Zo was towards the bottom of the league in pay for much of his time here, yet he consistently finished higher than that in league standings...yet most here weren’t happy with him, so it doesn’t really appear this salary thing works both ways? On a similar example, what had Zo had at Missouri State? So the expectations for him should’ve been very low according to your career success standard, and also very low according to your expectations per salary...but again Zo was widely disliked here and most were glad when he left, doesn’t seem like this theory of expectations really works both ways?
 
#168
#168
bleedingTNorange said:
Zo was towards the bottom of the league in pay for much of his time here, yet he consistently finished higher than that in league standings...yet most here weren’t happy with him, so it doesn’t really appear this salary thing works both ways? On a similar example, what had Zo had at Missouri State? So the expectations for him should’ve been very low according to your career success standard, and also very low according to your expectations per salary...but again Zo was widely disliked here and most were glad when he left, doesn’t seem like this theory of expectations really works both ways?
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The situation with Coach ZO was unfortunate and I wish it never played out the way it did. He followed Bruce while many still wanted Bruce instead of Coach Martin. If Bruce never coached at UT, the feelings about Coach Martin would have been completely different. Opinions differ and I believe that CRB can take this program to the next level and those are my expectations.
 
#169
#169
walkenvol said:
Lost 2 3year starting seniors. Lost his 2 best returning players unexpectedly to the draft. Started the year with his 3rd best returning player playing injured then ending the season for surgery. His 4th best returning player unexplainable lost his shooting stroke that he’s consistently displayed for 3 prior seasons. These facts aren’t disputable by anyone being reasonable.

Basically playing with a completely new team one of which showed up in January. He’s coached up 2 prior role players into solid SEC posts and he’s trying to get all the freshmen to contribute.

If you’re going to be critical, then about the only complaint of CRB could be “why didn’t he have a class full of one and done types like Duke or KY since he knew he was losing 4 of his top 6 after the draft”. If you think UT is a program that can simply reload every year then you’re not being realistic
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Reasonability in this day and age just doesn't happen.
 
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#172
#172
PEPPERJAX said:
The situation with Coach ZO was unfortunate and I wish it never played out the way it did. He followed Bruce while many still wanted Bruce instead of Coach Martin. If Bruce never coached at UT, the feelings about Coach Martin would have been completely different. Opinions differ and I believe that CRB can take this program to the next level and those are my expectations.
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Poor example as Zo has a track record of not sticking anywhere. 3 years and he finds a way to move on. He tried to play the race card knowing his roster was bad if he returned
 
#173
#173
walkenvol said:
Can you offer any insight why Bowden is shooting worse this year? Is he battling injury that hasn’t been made public?
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His 2pt% is 2nd highest of his 4 years, his FT % is right on his career average, it’s the 3pt% that’s way down. He’s averaging nearly twice as many 3’s a game as his career average, so I’m sure a part is him pressing feeling early on like he had to take shots and then especially once turner went down...the last 3 years he had the benefit of getting most of his looks wide open. He’s also a guy that needs confidence, so when he misses a couple early whether contested or not he then is in his own head.
 
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#174
#174
walkenvol said:
Poor example as Zo has a track record of not sticking anywhere. 3 years and he finds a way to move on. He tried to play the race card knowing his roster was bad if he returned
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WHO CARES. Fans started that stupid petition.
 
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