Coach Doug Mathews has us 8-4.

[chargervol]

I can understand that.

I just don't see why this year is really that much different than the last. Other than it's a year later.

For me, I knew what we were working with last year at all the major positions. And thought I knew what we had with Shoop and the defense. I expected to win the east.

This year, I have no clue about QB or RB (behind Kelly)and now have serious doubts about the defense. Now it's important to me that you understand that I haven't set low expectations because I don't know what to expect yet. We could have a really good-looking team and the coaches underperform and I will be as mad as everyone else at the coach. We could be shaky at positions and still pull off a good season and I will be impressed. But I have to have an idea what we're working with before I set my expectations personally.

 

[Wylo]

At this point, not winning the division would equal failure.

If Florida does it again, Mac would be at Florida 3 years and won the division 3 times.

If Georgia wins the division, Kirby would have turned it around at Georgia in year 2 and accomplished what Butch has not been able to do in 5.

If anyone other than Florida, Georgia, or Tennessee wins the divison, people would be howling that Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy or Mizzou won the division before Butch did.

For the season not to be a failure (in terms of the long term good of the program), Tennessee HAS to win the division.

This...

Unfortunately Butch has shown repeatedly that he cannot win the east.

 

[BeecherVol]

For me, I knew what we were working with last year at all the major positions. And thought I knew what we had with Shoop and the defense. I expected to win the east.

This year, I have no clue about QB or RB (behind Kelly)and now have serious doubts about the defense. Now it's important to me that you understand that I haven't set low expectations because I don't know what to expect yet. We could have a really good-looking team and the coaches underperform and I will be as mad as everyone else at the coach. We could be shaky at positions and still pull off a good season and I will be impressed. But I have to have an idea what we're working with before I set my expectations personally.

That's reasonable and don't really disagree all that much. I think UGA has the roster more so than UF. But a more questionable leader.

Having those questions going into year 5 knowing neither UGA or UF have righted their ship is enough to give me pause. If we go with the idea that we dont win the division.
That's where what UGA and UF do in their seasons matters to me.

If we are reloading and finishing 2nd or 3rd to good UGA and UF teams after our run of success then most can understand that and have some patience for 18'.

I think sometimes we respond to each other when actually we re talking to others.

 

[volfan102455]

This...

Unfortunately Butch has shown repeatedly that he cannot win the east.

I guess you expected him to win the east the first year with Dooley's players. Last year was probably the first and only year when he really had the talent and experience to win the east.

 

[Boca Vol]

Maybe the breading on the corndogs?

I know that's a deal breaker for me.

 

[chargervol]

That's reasonable and don't really disagree all that much. I think UGA has the roster more so than UF. But a more questionable leader.

Having those questions going into year 5 knowing neither UGA or UF have righted their ship is enough to give me pause. If we go with the idea that we dont win the division.
That's where what UGA and UF do in their seasons matters to me.

If we are reloading and finishing 2nd or 3rd to good UGA and UF teams after our run of success then most can understand that and have some patience for 18'.

I think sometimes we respond to each other when actually we re talking to others.

Sounds reasonable also.


Definitely on the responding thing. I do that to poor Behr all the time haha

 

[BeecherVol]

Sounds reasonable also.


Definitely on the responding thing. I do that to poor Behr all the time haha

Behr is a good sport.

 

[Vol 67]

It's year 5 though. everyone loses key starters and if there is no one in line ready to step up and replace that player, it's on Butch.

Accepting eight and four is giving Jones a mulligan in year five. Coaches making four million a year aren't given that kind of a pass at a school with a strong tradition and all of the facilities and support UT has.

 

[KBVol]

I guess you expected him to win the east the first year with Dooley's players. Last year was probably the first and only year when he really had the talent and experience to win the east.

He's had plenty of talent to win it each of the last two years, especially when compared to the rosters and coaching situations of the teams in the East.

No one expected him to win in 2013 or 2014, you of course know that. But 2015 and 2016? Yes, he could've won it in 2015 and absolutely should've in 2016.

 

[BigOrangeD]

Would be a failure of a season if this is the case. Losing to every one of our rivals is a huge step backwards

My main issue is that Butch has had 5 years to recruit and build depth. He should be reloading, not rebuilding by now. With that said, I still like him as our coach and want to stick with him. It is a bit harder to recruit here than at Florida or Georgia.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

Here's the podcast of Coach Matthew's show today for anyone interested in listening:

https://audioboom.com/posts/6133230-big-orange-sunday-7-23-17

 

[BeecherVol]

Accepting eight and four is giving Jones a mulligan in year five. Coaches making four million a year aren't given that kind of a pass at a school with a strong tradition and all of the facilities and support UT has.

It's an interesting topic.

He had a 10-2 maybe even 11-1 team last year that stumped it's toe and won 8. Coming off some good recruiting he had a good shot at some equity building last year and missed it. Now for some, 8 wins is perceived as not going backwards and building toward 18' because that's what he won last year.

 

[alavolfan]

I guess I'm also thinking 8-4 with the losses to Fla, UGA, Bama, LSU.

I am thinking we can maybe pick one if those off...but a stupid loss to Vandy or one of the other weak teams will certainly negate that.

 

[DeerPark12]

hearing crap like that just ruins my day and probably the next few. I can't believe we are STILL hearing about youth and depth.

So you believe that the only acceptable outcome is to be better in a year where the team has to replace 75% of its offensive production from last season, the starting QB, the top two running backs (who both left early), the top WR (who left early) and your three best defensive players, two of whom left with eligibility remains.

Name one school other than Alabama that can overcome all of that and not have a "rebuilding" year at 8-4.

I can understand how you are still angry that we underachieve life to you by losing two games down the stretch we should not have. But don't come on here and ignore the reality that Tennessee has to face based on what it lost from last year's team.

Every so often, every top team has to reload. If we had gone 10–2 as expected last year, taking a step back and reloading would've been much easier for everyone to accept. The fact Tennessee lost two games that it should not have lost last season does not change the fact that those players left and have to be replaced. There is going to be a drop off. No program in America would experience that loss of talent and not have a step back.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

It's an interesting topic.

He had a 10-2 maybe even 11-1 team last year that stumped it's toe and won 8. Coming off some good recruiting he had a good shot at some equity building last year and missed it. Now for some, 8 wins is perceived as not going backwards and building toward 18' because that's what he won last year.

He should have been 9-3 last year at the very worst. The losses to South Carolina and Vanderbilt were simply unacceptable, no matter how anyone wants to cut it. I will say that Jones has done a solid job rebuilding the program to this point, but to me the question is whether or not he can take it to the next level. This year will probably tell all to me. If he goes 8-4 or 7-5 with losses to Bama, Florida, Georgia, LSU and some other school we shouldn't lose to, the answer is just no, he's not that guy. If he can't do it with an A level staff and top SEC talent this year, sadly I just can't see him getting it done.

 

[BJWeeks]

Jones very well could lost to GT, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, South Carolina, and Vandy

 

[vol2002]

Muschamp lost 8 games in 2013 when his team was ravaged with injuries. Notre Dame lost a bunch of players and went 4-8 last year. Butch loses tons of players to freak injuries and goes 9-4 and everyone thinks he sucks. Such is college football.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Jones very well could lost to GT, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, South Carolina, and Vandy

Well, that wouldn't be Jones. That would be all of us. That would be the Vols losing.

When folks are so focused on the future of the coach, they seem to forget that everything in this program happens with, and to, the team. The entire team. Not just one leader, not just one person.

I don't think our lads can lose to all those teams this season. I don't think we'll lose to even half of them.

 

[peerless98]

I say 9-3 with wins over LSU and either Florida or Georgia (hopefully Florida) and an unexpected loss somewhere along the line.

 

[volfan102455]

My main issue is that Butch has had 5 years to recruit and build depth. He should be reloading, not rebuilding by now. With that said, I still like him as our coach and want to stick with him. It is a bit harder to recruit here than at Florida or Georgia.

The problem is that there are similarities in a team that is reloading and a team that is rebuilding. Both lead to uncertainty. Both involve players with little actual game day experience being expected to contribute. Both involve a set of 11 on the field that have not had significant (if any) game day experience playing alongside each other. Thus both have players that are "young in actual game type experience".

Young for Tennessee in 2017 doesn't and should not imply - playing a host of "true freshman", like it did in 2014, 2015 and parts of 2016 (because of injuries). And I don't think those that make the comment "young" are referring to that. "Young" for Tennessee in 2017 implies players who don't have lots of game day experience against opponents or with each other.

The primary reason that is given for UGA as being a favorite is due to players having game day experience. Aka "starters" at key positions are returning.

Some of you just need to get over the negativity that you spew with every word. Tennessee will be "young" at key positions in actual "game day experience". Any team that is reloading has these characteristics.

 

[volfan102455]

Muschamp lost 8 games in 2013 when his team was ravaged with injuries. Notre Dame lost a bunch of players and went 4-8 last year. Butch loses tons of players to freak injuries and goes 9-4 and everyone thinks he sucks. Such is college football.

Oh but the other schools had excuses.

Folks expect miracles at Tennessee.

Some are blinded by their extreme dislike for a coach.

 

[1chattyvols1]

Never thought I'd say this, but he had John Adams on the first segment and I actually enjoyed it. He wrote an article about SEC running backs. A few takeaways...

1. Herschel is the all-time leading rusher in conference history, of course, despite only playing 3 years.

2. Tennessee's all-time leading rusher Travis Henry is only 34th in conference history. They discussed how Tennessee has always had 2, sometimes even 3 stud running backs at the same time who split carries so that no particular back could pile up carries and yards.

3. Ralph Webb at Vandy has a good shot at becoming the 5th all-time leading rusher in SEC history.

4. Adams thinks Chuck Webb was the best Tennessee running back all-time....said had he not gone down to injury in 1990 that he believes he would've won Tennessee's first/only Heisman trophy. Mathews said "Cobb could do more things than Webb". I agree with Adams here.

Both backs were only behind Hershel in being the best ever in SEC, IMO.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

One thing that Doug said that I didn't catch in the OP's post is that Doug thinks this year's team has the potential to be a very good team in his opinion but, he said, it could also end up being a 7-5 or 8-4 team. So he is absolutely NOT saying that 8-4 is the ceiling for this football team. He is saying even if the final numbers turn out to be 7-5 or 8-4 he doesn't think that CBJ's job will be in question. He thinks our team and Butch Jones are an 8-4 team/program this year with the opportunity for a lot of upside. He said Butch's mouth gets him in trouble sometimes. Doug said he likes this staff right now and thinks the team is well positioned talent-wise for the next 2-3 years.

On the freshman class:

He thinks Trey Smith will play this year. He said it could be inside but he could also play tackle this year. He thinks Ty Chandler will play and could be one of the better RBs Tennessee has had. He thinks Deandre Johnson and Trey Coleman will Play. He thinks Will Ignont and Shanon Reed will play this year. Butler and Bennett he expects to get snaps at DT. Bailey at CB will play as well as Shamburger. 6 of the 10 will probably be on special teams.

Comparing 2017 to 2016 SEC to last year:

Missouri - same to worse than last year
USCe - a bit better than last year
Kentucky - slightly better - defensive issues will limit their upside
Vandy - about the same as last year - defensive questions
Florida - about the same as last year b/c of coaching - Mac finds a way but have some defensive questions
Georgia - better on defense, some questions on offensive line
Alabama - The ONLY SEC team that we play that is clearly better than Tennessee
LSU - could go either way - comparable to the A&M game in 2016

Most of those teams will likely have a pocket passer which should make it easier for our defensive game planning. He thinks Warren and Hoke will really pay off for Shoop. He thinks this defense will be a really well coached unit.

He thinks we match up really well with everyone on our schedule except Alabama. He sees 4-4 or 5-3 in the SEC this year as not putting CBJ on the hot seat and he thinks there is upside potential for team 121.

 

[volfan102455]

And honestly if Tennessee goes 8-4 or better in 2017 and

- Doesn't lose to one of those teams Tennessee really should never lose to
- Is competitive in every game (aka like they were in 2015)

Then every fan does have something to complain about in 2018 if Tennessee does not knock it out of the park in 2018.

Expecting a knock it out of the park season (e.g. SEC championship and CFP game) in 2017 is not grounded in reality. If that happens then CBJ and the team have overachieved big time.

 

[BeecherVol]

He should have been 9-3 last year at the very worst. The losses to South Carolina and Vanderbilt were simply unacceptable, no matter how anyone wants to cut it. I will say that Jones has done a solid job rebuilding the program to this point, but to me the question is whether or not he can take it to the next level. This year will probably tell all to me. If he goes 8-4 or 7-5 with losses to Bama, Florida, Georgia, LSU and some other school we shouldn't lose to, the answer is just no, he's not that guy. If he can't do it with an A level staff and top SEC talent this year, sadly I just can't see him getting it done.

It's an curious position to be in and sell if it ends at 8 again.

It will get him another year, but what are you expecting after that. At some point expectations have to go back to 16' at least or you have to exceed the lower one.

Hopefully the changes pan and expectations go back to where they should be in 18'.