China Thread

#1

LouderVol

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#1
Ok, I promised to make a China Thread with all the problems i have with the country right now.

my main one is how they are becoming the main bad guy in the pacific. However i will also touch on the Hong Kong voting issue, Cultural "flooding", forced migrations, environmental issues including, but not limited to, the damming rivers, pollution and strip mining and dirty industry like we haven't seen in 50 years. There is also the drive to remove a lot of their cultural connections to the past and to the land.

China's Maritime Disputes

three problem areas: Paracel Islands fishing and maybe oil. Spratly Islands with fishing and definitely oil and gas. and Senkaku Islands with fishing, oil and gas and shipping lanes.

the are competing with Japan, Vietnam, the Phillipines, Mayalsia and Brunei. in pretty much every circumstance the contested islands are closer to the other country beyond China, and most of China's claims are either really recent (last decade or two) or are from almost 1000 years ago but no continuation.

i am in no way an expert, as i have done little research beyond the stuff i will post here. feel free to add in as you see fit.
 
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#2

hog88

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#2
Ok, I promised to make a China Thread with all the problems i have with the country right now.

my main one is how they are becoming the main bad guy in the pacific. However i will also touch on the Hong Kong voting issue, Cultural "flooding", forced migrations, environmental issues including, but not limited to, the damming rivers, pollution and strip mining and dirty industry like we haven't seen in 50 years. There is also the drive to remove a lot of their cultural connections to the past and to the land.

China's Maritime Disputes

three problem areas: Paracel Islands fishing and maybe oil. Spratly Islands with fishing and definitely oil and gas. and Senkaku Islands with fishing, oil and gas and shipping lanes.

the are competing with Japan, Vietnam, the Phillipines, Mayalsia and Brunei. in pretty much every circumstance the contested islands are closer to the other country beyond China, and most of China's claims are either really recent (last decade or two) or are from almost 1000 years ago but no continuation
Bully going to bully when there isn't anyone to willing to stop them.
 
#6

Vol8188

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#6
environmental issues, most of them are obvious and semi-related imo, the big cause is the population and how they are being forced into these new cities popping up everywhere.
Chinas Top 6 Environmental Concerns | China Environment

btw, these are not the only links, just posting this stuff so that maybe someone reads it and does their own research.
I find this interesting, because it seems to be the goal for the GOP. I've seen GOP leaders ask for self regulation from business (Ted Cruz being the notable one).

That doesn't seem to have been very effective in China.
 
#7

LouderVol

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#7
because it is largely over i wont post any links but the Hong Kong right to vote issue has been pretty big lately. What happened was when China took over they promised Hong Kong the right to elect their own officials in 2017 (something like that). Well Beijing has said that Hong Kong will get to vote, but all the candidates (i think it was limited to 5 choices) all have to be vetted and approved by Beijing, meaning Beijing will only have pro-Beijing officials up for election. this sparked off a series of protests and was pretty big news for a while. unfortunately, imo, Beijing was able to largely outwait the protesters and have only promised nominal changes at this point. I could easily see this coming up again in the future when the votes are held.
 
#9

LouderVol

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#9
I find this interesting, because it seems to be the goal for the GOP. I've seen GOP leaders ask for self regulation from business (Ted Cruz being the notable one).

That doesn't seem to have been very effective in China.
coming from China they are kinda double dipping, as with the communist ties over there many of the companies are pseudo ran by the government or people closely tied to it (worse than here) so 1. the companies wont do anything and 2. the government wont do anything to correct it.

they have promised to make changes but most of the measures are dependent on other countries doing the hard work first.
 
#11

hog88

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#11
environmental issues, most of them are obvious and semi-related imo, the big cause is the population and how they are being forced into these new cities popping up everywhere.
Chinas Top 6 Environmental Concerns | China Environment

btw, these are not the only links, just posting this stuff so that maybe someone reads it and does their own research.
Their environmental practices don't concern me. We are addicted to their cheap products, we refuse to force a level playing field so they take advantage.
 
#13

hog88

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#13
I find this interesting, because it seems to be the goal for the GOP. I've seen GOP leaders ask for self regulation from business (Ted Cruz being the notable one).

That doesn't seem to have been very effective in China.
So much dumb right there I don't know where to begin.
 
#15

LouderVol

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#15
this goes a bit into the forced relocation issue, but there is a great article i am looking for that covers it more thoroughly. i want to say it was Nat Geo or something like that. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/world/asia/chinas-great-uprooting-moving-250-million-into-cities.html?_r=0

basically they are forcing people into cities with nothing for them to do when they get there. this ties in with my grand overall theory that China will face great internal upheaval in the next decade or two. right now they are able to out grow/ out expand their issues. a good chunk of their economy is focused on building new stuff right now that they don't have. these mega projects: 3 Gorges Damn, all these new concrete cities, highways to no where, etc. when they run out of stuff to build a good chunk of their populations' jobs will dry up. they are already outsourcing jobs everywhere. if Chinese companies are funding major projects elsewhere a lot of the time they are providing the labor as well instead of using locals. this is a decent article to one such time this is happening, but it is wide spread. Why the Chinese-backed Nicaragua canal may be a disaster - The Washington Post
 
#17

LouderVol

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#17
Their environmental practices don't concern me. We are addicted to their cheap products, we refuse to force a level playing field so they take advantage.
it concerns me. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/world/asia/china-also-exports-pollution-to-western-us-study-finds.html

but to be honest the main thing is how unsustainable their actions are. instability of a country the size of China will have world wide side effects.

what happens to the cheap goods made in China when they run out of resources? we are already seeing them forcibly expand into other countries territories (see my first post) and then through Chinese corporations moving into poor areas around the world for resources with the Chinese government getting a portion of the resources they dig up. they know its a problem and have already become creative, to say the least, on how to mitigate it.
 
#18

LouderVol

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#18
They couldn't by themselves.
the thing is, once it goes hot in one area I think you could see some neighbors jump in too. China and South Korea don't see eye to eye, heck even North Korea has had a couple border issues with China. Vietnam and China have already had some skirmishes over the islands, and from what i am hearing Vietnam is looking to take the fight to China. but ultimately i don't think the international community allows it to go down. The US has alliances with Japan and the Philippines which have been discussed on what those mean, and how they could drag us into war with China over some of these issues. Basically China has too many problems to be able to focus on just fighting Japan, which would be a big advantage for Japan.
 
#23

hog88

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#23
it concerns me. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/world/asia/china-also-exports-pollution-to-western-us-study-finds.html

but to be honest the main thing is how unsustainable their actions are. instability of a country the size of China will have world wide side effects.

what happens to the cheap goods made in China when they run out of resources? we are already seeing them forcibly expand into other countries territories (see my first post) and then through Chinese corporations moving into poor areas around the world for resources with the Chinese government getting a portion of the resources they dig up. they know its a problem and have already become creative, to say the least, on how to mitigate it.
Still not worried about their pollution. In the long run it will bite them.

The only control the Chinese government has over it's people is fear. Once they have had enough or no longer fear the government it's over for the communist regime. It's a Tom Clancy book but I think "The Bear and The Dragon" does a good job of illustrating how fragile the governments control really is.
 
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#25

volprof

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#25
Who knows, but certainly worth thinking about. The Russians seem to have established a new standard of international diplomacy.

Get Ready: China Could Pull a 'Crimea' in Asia | The National Interest

First, it was Genghis Khan diplomacy, which ended with V-E and V-J Day(s), and then it was UN, Bretton Woods, etc. diplomacy (what we think of as the current order). But, then Crimea happened.

100 years from now, assuming historians aren't speaking Chinese or kissing the asses of the current Chinese leadership, I think we'll look back and say that the 2014 Crimean grab was the most perfect territorial expansion/invasion/annexation/whatever the hell you want to call it in history. It seems to have laid the groundwork for a new international order, one that does not require international law and one that retains plausible deniability.
 
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