Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[Orange_Crush]

I specifically said it was wrong - with no need for any idiotic qualifiers.
You are spinning out of control......whatever your attempt was, it failed miserably.

I'm just trying to work through this. There is a great difference between saying that baby rape is always wrong, at all times and at all places, for the simple sake that it's a baby and it's rape. As opposed to saying that it's wrong depending on public opinion and/or in the same way that dog circling when they poop is somehow "right" or them not circling would be "wrong".

Here, let's do this...

Slavery and inherent human rights: Why is slavery wrong? And to what would you appeal for inherent, in-aliable human rights? Those nasty republicans gain more and more power, change the voting laws to suppress black votes and put them back in chains. Society's pendulum swings, voters, lawmakers and judges say that blacks can't vote and they are going back onto the plantation...

Why would that be wrong?

Your great fear seems to be that society is becoming more and more MAGA. You've bemoaned for years, the idea that Trump is normalizing.... whatever it is that you fear he's normalizing. Why would that be wrong? If society defines morality, then whatever society considers moral is moral. Any acceptable thing, at any acceptable time is "moral". Just go along with the flow. Stop worrying so much. Trump is merely creating the new morality. Rejoice in that.

I've never once cared about my status here on VN.
It seems like something that is far more important to you for some reason.

Really? You seem to contemplate it.

Yea, I guess. You've tried drawing that parallel multiple times now.
The PF needs more balance. If I were posting in a far left forum, I would position myself differently.
Kind of like living in GA near Athens makes me much more motivated to show my TN fandom than if I was living near Knoxville. All about balancing the scales.

You should feel free to do so.

But I have absolutely no doubt that I have influenced thought and new ideas. I see evidence constantly in the PF.

Great! Let's just see what platform you have here to be a thought leader. Figuring out whether baby-rape and slavery are "actually" wrong--or wrong by consensus--seems easy enough. Will you get back with me when you work through that?



Oh, and did we ever even figure out whether you believe you can access and perceive a single, unified reality, and if so, why you believe that? That sounds kind of important as well.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That’s a pet peeve of mine when people ‘I’m speaking my truth’ I can’t stand that..sometimes there is just the truth and that is that. Not a myriad of subjective truths

And isn't that the point?

The arrogance involved in that stance. If some nameless person was to claim to believe that morality is relative and defined by society, but they go around calling society names because they don't agree with a series of minority, fringe positions? They started a culture that bullied and enforced at the very least, silence, or they would cancel you, humiliate you and get you fired. (Ands now they complain that the other side is doing it to them like it's somehow... perish the thought to use the word... wrong to do that to someone?)

They claim that the only truth is each person's personal, relative truth. But they make it their mission to treat you like their truth is the one you should accept?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Pocahontas gonna disappear faster than the Land O Lakes Squaw.

That word is actually a slur and is pretty offensive to native women.

 

[n_huffhines]

 

[TheDeeble]

I hope the Memorial Service this weekend goes down without stupidity happening. Given how things have gone the past week I can see it being the destination for protesters or anyone wanting to cause trouble/mayhem.

Public memorial for Charlie Kirk to be held at State Farm Stadium on Sunday

A public memorial titled “Building a Legacy Remembering Charlie Kirk” is scheduled for Sunday, September 21, at State Farm Stadium in Glendale.

www.abc15.com

 

[appvol]

Man I couldn’t imagine

 

[Smokey123]

I've seen a couple of things of hers recently and she's talking like they were best friends, but I have to admit I got the feeling in listening to her there was a disconnect. She was kind of rambling and all over the place. I gave up watching.

She seems to have spiraled the last few years. Kind of odd they had so many of his friends on the Charlie Kirk show this past week, yet she wasn’t invited on for an appearance?

 

[BreatheUT]

I hope the Memorial Service this weekend goes down without stupidity happening. Given how things have gone the past week I can see it being the destination for protesters or anyone wanting to cause trouble/mayhem.

Public memorial for Charlie Kirk to be held at State Farm Stadium on Sunday

A public memorial titled “Building a Legacy Remembering Charlie Kirk” is scheduled for Sunday, September 21, at State Farm Stadium in Glendale.

www.abc15.com

Kirk was friends and had an impact on people winning elections at the highest levels but I don't know if I like the optics and I'm not sure it's smart.

 

[luthervol]

I'm just trying to work through this. There is a great difference between saying that baby rape is always wrong, at all times and at all places, for the simple sake that it's a baby and it's rape. As opposed to saying that it's wrong depending on public opinion and/or in the same way that dog circling when they poop is somehow "right" or them not circling would be "wrong".

Keep trying.
That may be one of the dumbest paragraphs I have ever read. And no, there is really no practical difference at all.

Here, let's do this...

Slavery and inherent human rights: Why is slavery wrong? And to what would you appeal for inherent, in-aliable human rights? Those nasty republicans gain more and more power, change the voting laws to suppress black votes and put them back in chains. Society's pendulum swings, voters, lawmakers and judges say that blacks can't vote and they are going back onto the plantation...

Why would that be wrong?

Of course I believe it would be wrong. I believe it is wrong for 18 year olds to have easy access to purchasing multiple guns. I believe it is wrong to set the drinking age at 21. I believe it is wrong for Texas to gerrymander the hell out of their districts. I believe it is wrong for a woman to be denied the choice of terminating an unwanted pregnancy during her first 3 months. I believe it is wrong to force a woman to continue a pregnancy when her life is at risk. I believe plenty of things are wrong that others see as right. That's the way it works. That's the way it has always worked. That's the way it will continue to work. There is actually no other reasonable alternative. All of your nonsense is simply nonsense. I'm confident we at least live in a society which will continue to view the rape, murder and consumption of 2 year olds to be both immoral and illegal. USA USA USA

Your great fear seems to be that society is becoming more and more MAGA. You've bemoaned for years, the idea that Trump is normalizing.... whatever it is that you fear he's normalizing. Why would that be wrong? If society defines morality, then whatever society considers moral is moral. Any acceptable thing, at any acceptable time is "moral". Just go along with the flow. Stop worrying so much. Trump is merely creating the new morality. Rejoice in that.

That is actually more reason to work in support of your own ideas and beliefs while working against those with greatly conflicting ideas and beliefs.
Your reasoning is backfiring on you.

Really? You seem to contemplate it.

I could hardly care less. Those posts say nothing at all that contradict that.

Great! Let's just see what platform you have here to be a thought leader. Figuring out whether baby-rape and slavery are "actually" wrong--or wrong by consensus--seems easy enough. Will you get back with me when you work through that?

Nothing to work through.

Oh, and did we ever even figure out whether you believe you can access and perceive a single, unified reality, and if so, why you believe that? That sounds kind of important as well.

We did figure out that this is a stupid question.......at least in most everyone's reality.
If there was a unified reality, you would perceive it also. So I guess the question now becomes, do you realize how stupid your question actually is?
yes = unified reality
no = individualized realities.

What say you??????????

 

[85SugarVol]

I believe that turned out to just be the brand of ammo manufacturer, TRN or Tauren. It doesn't mean trans. Just something else they put out there to falsely push their narrative.

What is the narrative? Do you believe the shooter was Maga?

 

[Smokey123]

There are rumors Kirk spurned Israel and walked away from big money donations so as not to be associated with them in the last month of his life. If that's true this is a kick in the face to his legacy.

I’m interested to know if there’s any truth to that. The journalist (from an anonymous source) who ran that story worked for Al Akhbar. People that worked for Charlie and were at the Hamptons already came out and said Candace is lying about what happened there

To me the truth is normally close to the middle. I’m sure people did voice their concerns with having Dave Smith and especially Tucker at his summits. And iirc the times of Israel ran a story about something charlie said about Epstein. He asked questions (like everyone should) but he definitely strongly supported Israel even at the end, and from the stuff he had said he supported their war on Gaza too. People are trying to make something out of nothing imo

 

[volfanhill]

Hating Jews and Israel is quite popular right now

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Hating Jews and Israel is quite popular right now

Agree and its freaking disgusting. Especially since half the Jews on planet Earth live in the US. The Dem party, formerly self described as the party of "tolerance" and "coexistence" is now the bigoted party of racism, trans violence, rioting, and antisemitism. Overtly.Proudly.

The disconnect in the minds of Leftists is astounding. The gay/"trans" lovers and the pro-hamas/jew haters are somehow one and the same. The Venn diagram for those 2 issues supporters on the Left looks like a . 2 concentric circles. Not sure how they get past the fact that muslims stone gays to death or throw them from the highest rooftops when they're in control. Always reminds me of this :


Just switch "Europe" with "Gays/Libs"

 

[Orange_Crush]

Keep trying.
That may be one of the dumbest paragraphs I have ever read. And no, there is really no practical difference at all.

Of course I believe it would be wrong. I believe it is wrong for 18 year olds to have easy access to purchasing multiple guns. I believe it is wrong to set the drinking age at 21. I believe it is wrong for Texas to gerrymander the hell out of their districts. I believe it is wrong for a woman to be denied the choice of terminating an unwanted pregnancy during her first 3 months. I believe it is wrong to force a woman to continue a pregnancy when her life is at risk. I believe plenty of things are wrong that others see as right. That's the way it works. That's the way it has always worked. That's the way it will continue to work. There is actually no other reasonable alternative. All of your nonsense is simply nonsense. I'm confident we at least live in a society which will continue to view the rape, murder and consumption of 2 year olds to be both immoral and illegal. USA USA USA

That is actually more reason to work in support of your own ideas and beliefs while working against those with greatly conflicting ideas and beliefs.
Your reasoning is backfiring on you.


I could hardly care less. Those posts say nothing at all that contradict that.

Nothing to work through.

We did figure out that this is a stupid question.......at least in most everyone's reality.
If there was a unified reality, you would perceive it also. So I guess the question now becomes, do you realize how stupid your question actually is?
yes = unified reality
no = individualized realities.

What say you??????????

Talk about missing points as you refuse to deal with them. You believe baby rape cannibalism is wrong... As long as society agrees. And in the same way a dog circles the yard to poop. Yu've made that clear. You just don't discuss the issues with that.

That is actually more reason to work in support of your own ideas and beliefs while working against those with greatly conflicting ideas and beliefs.
Your reasoning is backfiring on you.

That is asinine considering your definition of morality as being defined by society. By that logic, any time you work against societal norms, you are immoral. Think about it. If slavery is moral by societal standards, you are inherently immoral to try to change that. If child-rape is moral by societal standards, you are immoral to try to stop it. And you have no logical standard of appeal outside of yourself to justify the changes.

Hmmm... Maybe that's why terrorism has become more popular in the radical left to try to affect societal change. Because they have such weak mechanisms to affect change in others. Maybe that was the need to murder the guy they couldn't debate. Maybe that's where cancelculture came from.




And of course I believe that there is a unified reality, and my worldview gives me great reason to believe that I can access it and correctly perceive it.

Have a good day. I would suggest that you have now repeatedly given great reason behind the ineffectiveness of your thought-leader pursuits here on VN, and proven just a couple of reasons that people see you as a joke and a byword.

 

[Orange_Crush]

We did figure out that this is a stupid question.......at least in most everyone's reality.
If there was a unified reality, you would perceive it also. So I guess the question now becomes, do you realize how stupid your question actually is?
yes = unified reality
no = individualized realities.

What say you??????????

OK. So what makes you believe that you can correctly perceive it?

 

[Orange_Crush]

 

[Vol8188]

View attachment 774501

Tucker remains the biggest loser on the right

 

[rekinhavoc]

 

[Vol8188]

Did the scary “they” you believe faked messages, also convince his parents to turn him in? Did they steal his grandfather’s rifle?

 

[luthervol]

OK. So what makes you believe that you can correctly perceive it?

That's such an idiotic question. Which you are admitting too by asking. If you can follow.
I think we may have gone around the circle at least 3 times too many now.
I'm relatively certain you have been diagnosed as having obsessive compulsive disorder.
Someone has to be the first to walk away. It will belatedly be me.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That's such an idiotic question. Which you are admitting too by asking. If you can follow.
I think we may have gone around the circle at least 3 times too many now.
I'm relatively certain you have been diagnosed as having obsessive compulsive disorder.
Someone has to be the first to walk away. It will belatedly be me.

OK. Insults are not a way of changing hearts and minds.

If you change your mind about walking away from hard questions...

Let's try it this way.

(1a) What are humans and how did we get here? We can work from there.







On the "wrong", morality issue...

(1b) You've indicated that as society changed and slavery became immoral, society evolved to improve. That's a comparative statement, so you'll need to let us in on the standard that you are judging against. If a non-slavery society is more moral than slavery society, what standard are you using to make that judgment? It would need to be a standard outside of society, and outside of yourself?

(2b) You've indicated that society defines morality. If you seek to change society, what would that make you? And why? (If morality is a social agreement, and you are trying to break that agreement...?)

(3b) If you were talking to the mother of a toddler, and she asked you whether raping and eating her toddler is objectively wrong at all times and at all places, no matter the opinion of one person or all persons, what would you tell her? That it is wrong merely as an evolving social construct, and it is wrong in a similar way that it is wrong when a dog does not circle before pooping? Do you have grandkids, by the way?


These questions work together, in case you haven't started noticing. What is a human? Merely the product of time and chance? A weak, hairless animal? A blip on the universe's timescale with no objective or lasting worth? Merely a meat computer that should be treated the same as your laptop? Use it for whatever you find beneficial, and throw it in the dumpster if it stops serving its purpose? If not, why not?

What is a human? Just the product of unguided change over time via random gene mutations? Then what makes you think that you evolved the ability to correctly perceive and interpret reality around you? What part of "Survival of the Fittest" gave you reason to believe that you developed these capabilities?



It seems that, if you want to intellectually and morally change people around you, you should be ready to defend your underpinnings if they lift the hood of your worldview and start asking questions. Right?



I belabor these things because I'd like to weigh how firm a foundation your philosophical worldview is to be trusted as an agent of change, whether here or in society at large. One would think you would invite that, what with your desire to be a catalyst of change.

I appreciate your patience.

 

[itsme]

Was that the opinion of a medical professional, or what you tell yourself because aligns with your bigotry and your faux victim mentality?

There are fewer than 10 transgender athletes in NCAA sports as of January of this year, and the one notable trans athlete in volleyball, has a spike speed that's the average of players in their conference, so forgive me if I don't believe that your daughter was a victim of anything more than being unlucky enough of being in a bad spot on a spike.

Transwoman Elite Athletes: Their Extra Percentage Relative to Female Physiology - PMC

There is increasing debate as to whether transwoman athletes should be included in the elite female competition. Most elite sports are divided into male and female divisions because of the greater athletic performance displayed by males. Without the ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[luthervol]

OK. Insults are not a way of changing hearts and minds.

If you change your mind about walking away from hard questions...

Let's try it this way.

(1a) What are humans and how did we get here? We can work from there.







On the "wrong", morality issue...

(1b) You've indicated that as society changed and slavery became immoral, society evolved to improve. That's a comparative statement, so you'll need to let us in on the standard that you are judging against. If a non-slavery society is more moral than slavery society, what standard are you using to make that judgment, it would need to be a standard outside of society, and outside of yourself?

(2b) You've indicated that society defines morality. If you seek to change society, what would that make you? And why? (If morality is a social agreement, and you are trying to break that agreement...?)




I belabor these things because I'd like to weigh how firm a foundation your philosophical worldview is to be trusted as an agent of change, whether here or in society at large. One would think you would invite that, what with your desire to be a catalyst of change.

I'll give that one a hard pass.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I'll give that one a hard pass.

I understand. Really, I do.

 

[BreatheUT]

Talk about missing points as you refuse to deal with them. You believe baby rape cannibalism is wrong... As long as society agrees. And in the same way a dog circles the yard to poop. Yu've made that clear. You just don't discuss the issues with that.



That is asinine considering your definition of morality as being defined by society. By that logic, any time you work against societal norms, you are immoral. Think about it. If slavery is moral by societal standards, you are inherently immoral to try to change that. If child-rape is moral by societal standards, you are immoral to try to stop it. And you have no logical standard of appeal outside of yourself to justify the changes.

Hmmm... Maybe that's why terrorism has become more popular in the radical left to try to affect societal change. Because they have such weak mechanisms to affect change in others. Maybe that was the need to murder the guy they couldn't debate. Maybe that's where cancelculture came from.




And of course I believe that there is a unified reality, and my worldview gives me great reason to believe that I can access it and correctly perceive it.

Have a good day. I would suggest that you have now repeatedly given great reason behind the ineffectiveness of your thought-leader pursuits here on VN, and proven just a couple of reasons that people see you as a joke and a byword.

It is the utopia of progressive liberalism. They don't have a destination. It's an evermoving object with no basis but disruption. Right and wrong is partially explained as right and wrong of the times and what is popular to attain power. Its rooted in opinion. It's what happens with people, good and bad, replace God with other things like government.