Character vs. Talent

Which is the most important trait for a player to possess: character or talent?

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  • Poll closed .
#202
#202
sjt18 said:
But Hardesty and Coker make a good case study when the gap isn't very wide. IMO, Coker was the most talented RB I've seen at UT.
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Wow! He's not even in the vicinity of the most talented RB at UT. All of his yards that he rolled up against Memphis, Vanderbilt and Kentucky must have impressed the hell out of you because he didn't do jack against any team with a pulse.
 
#203
#203
Vol423 said:
Wow! He's not even in the vicinity of the most talented RB at UT. All of his yards that he rolled up against Memphis, Vanderbilt and Kentucky must have impressed the hell out of you because he didn't do jack against any team with a pulse.
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Willie Martinez still has nightmares of him
 
#204
#204
utmba93 said:
SJT, you've got to learn the value of punting the ball.
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I don't draw opinions casually or without reason... and don't give them up easily regardless of what others say. I honestly could care less if you guys agree or not. Coker had good size, great quickness and vision, and could absolutely fly.

Rivals had him the #2 AP RB and #71 player overall. Scout had him the 7th best RB. They apparently agreed with what I'm saying about his raw talent.



In all this parsing and arguing over unimportant details, you've missed the point. Coker was more talented than Hardesty but it wasn't by a large margin. Hardesty had more character than Coker by a very wide margin.

As far as I know Coker is pumping gas... Hardesty is making serious noise as a rookie with the Browns.
 
#205
#205
Rivals having someone as the 71st best player in his class by no means is them "agreeing with you" that he is the most talented back Tennessee has ever had. Hardesty was in that same top 100 and we've had players considered to be much better than 71st...
 
#206
#206
sjt18 said:
I don't draw opinions casually or without reason... and don't give them up easily regardless of what others say. I honestly could care less if you guys agree or not. Coker had good size, great quickness and vision, and could absolutely fly.

Rivals had him the #2 AP RB and #71 player overall. Scout had him the 7th best RB. They apparently agreed with what I'm saying about his raw talent.



In all this parsing and arguing over unimportant details, you've missed the point. Coker was more talented than Hardesty but it wasn't by a large margin. Hardesty had more character than Coker by a very wide margin.

As far as I know Coker is pumping gas... Hardesty is making serious noise as a rookie with the Browns.
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You're backpedaling.

There's a world - a galaxy - of difference in saying Coker was more talented than Hardesty....and saying he's the most talented RB to ever don the orange and white.

And to attempt to justify it by saying that he was the 7th best RB in THAT CLASS of recruits is more telling of your poor player evaluation skills and lowly opinion and/or ignorance of all other UT RB's than it is of Coker, alone.
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#207
#207
Vol423 said:
Wow! He's not even in the vicinity of the most talented RB at UT. All of his yards that he rolled up against Memphis, Vanderbilt and Kentucky must have impressed the hell out of you because he didn't do jack against any team with a pulse.
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In his RSFR year (2006), Coker ran for 696 yds on 108 carries. His avg ypc was 6.44. He avg'd 5.79 ypc vs the SEC, 5.32 ypc against ranked teams, and 4.86 ypc against teams with a winning record. Hardesty was second behind him with 383 yds and 3.59 ypc. Foster who almost broke UT's career rushing mark was third with 322 yds and a 3.54 ypc avg.

Coker's carries were limited because the O was pass happy with Ainge, Meachem, Smith, et al.

The only game that year in which he had a carry avg'd less than 4 ypc was Bama.

There are folks here who seriously think BB's performance last year was an indication of certain future greatness. He gained 460 yds on 101 carries... with most of those yards coming against bad teams or in mop up. He avg'd under 4 ypc against the SEC, teams with a winning record, and against ranked opponents.


Oh btw, Coker recorded a 10.26 100m in HS... that's in the same range as Demps but Coker was closer to Harvin's size as a SR.
 
#208
#208
sjt18 said:
In his RSFR year (2006), Coker ran for 696 yds on 108 carries. His avg ypc was 6.44. He avg'd 5.79 ypc vs the SEC, 5.32 ypc against ranked teams, and 4.86 ypc against teams with a winning record. Hardesty was second behind him with 383 yds and 3.59 ypc. Foster who almost broke UT's career rushing mark was third with 322 yds and a 3.54 ypc avg.

Coker's carries were limited because the O was pass happy with Ainge, Meachem, Smith, et al.

The only game that year in which he had a carry avg'd less than 4 ypc was Bama.

There are folks here who seriously think BB's performance last year was an indication of certain future greatness. He gained 460 yds on 101 carries... with most of those yards coming against bad teams or in mop up. He avg'd under 4 ypc against the SEC, teams with a winning record, and against ranked opponents.


Oh btw, Coker recorded a 10.26 100m in HS... that's in the same range as Demps but Coker was closer to Harvin's size as a SR.
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So that there is no confusion:

Are you continuing to assert that Coker was THE MOST TALENTED RB IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEEE as you clearly stated earlier today?

Yes or No.

No stats, no justifications, just "Yes" or "No".
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#209
#209
Tenacious D said:
You're backpedaling.

There's a world - a galaxy - of difference in saying Coker was more talented than Hardesty....and saying he's the most talented RB to ever don the orange and white.
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No. I'm just saying that my opinion that he's the most "talented" RB UT ever had isn't critical to the real point I was making about character vs talent. This whole thing about Coker is fun... but a rabbit trail.

And to attempt to justify it by saying that he was the 7th best RB in THAT CLASS of recruits is more telling of your poor player evaluation skills and lowly opinion and/or ignorance of all other UT RB's than it is of Coker, alone.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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OK... whatever you say I suppose. That class included Jamaal Charles, Mendenhall, McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Hardesty, Felix Jones, etc... but being ranked ahead of McFadden and Charles mean nothing if you say so.

FWIW, I've watched UT RB's since the mid-80's. Coker choked and wasted incredible talent due to lack of character... can you at least agree with that?
 
#211
#211
Tenacious D said:
So that there is no confusion:

Are you continuing to assert that Coker was THE MOST TALENTED RB IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEEE as you clearly stated earlier today?

Yes or No.
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Yes. The most natural, God-given talent. That is MY OPINION.

No stats, no justifications, just "Yes" or "No".
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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So you're saying that opinions can't be valid unless they're detached from facts and reasoning? Ummm, OK.
 
#213
#213
sjt18 said:
OK... whatever you say I suppose. That class included Jamaal Charles, Mendenhall, McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Hardesty, Felix Jones, etc... but being ranked ahead of McFadden and Charles mean nothing if you say so.

FWIW, I've watched UT RB's since the mid-80's. Coker choked and wasted incredible talent due to lack of character... can you at least agree with that?
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Not that it matters, but I don't think McFadden was rated as a RB.
 
#214
#214
sjt18 said:
Yes. The most natural, God-given talent. That is MY OPINION.
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Just hard to think he even approaches Jamal Lewis. He may have been faster, but wasn't as big or as powerful. People were saying "Just give the ball to Jamal" when he had Peyton freaking Manning slinging the ball.
 
#216
#216
utmba93 said:
No matter how strong one's conviction, it can be wrong. That is fact.
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Of course it can.

The problem is that we can't rewind history and see what Coker's alternative would have been had he possessed character and self-discipline.
 
#218
#218
my memory of coker was getting caught from behind on a kickoff return against florida in 2007 by riley cooper.

i get that certain opinions are not able to be proven.

while i understand that, i will say, with rare exception, it would be hard to find anyone that would say coker was more talented than jamal lewis.

jamal lewis was a freak of nature. you are not supposed to be built like a bowling ball and have the foot speed that lewis did. i don't know how often he was caught from behind, but i don't have many memories of seeing people run him down. if you tried to tackle him there was nothing to hit that you wouldn't bounce off of.
 
#219
#219
Another victory for character: Ron Artest and Kobe Bryant are being fitted for championship rings.
 
#223
#223
hatvol96 said:
Another victory for character: Ron Artest and Kobe Bryant are being fitted for championship rings.
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Someone referred to Kobe and Randy Moss as high character players earlier in this thread. :blink: It's a shame you missed it.
 
#225
#225
sjt18 said:
OK... whatever you say I suppose. That class included Jamaal Charles, Mendenhall, McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Hardesty, Felix Jones, etc... but being ranked ahead of McFadden and Charles mean nothing if you say so.
Click to expand...

Oh, so first you use Rivals, and then use Scout when Rivals disagrees with you? McFadden was a 5 star roughly 50 spots ahead of Coker.
 
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