CBJ Coaching Ability

#76
#76
He's had to be conservative because of the lack of depth on the team. Okay--let's say I go to a casino boat with a hundred bucks in my pocket. Not going to put all $100 down on one number at the roulette table on the off chance that I win. I'm going to try to build off that $100 at blackjack and when I have $500 or so THEN I go play roulette. If I just throw caution to the wind, I'm sitting on the deck with all the other losers waiting for the boat to dock.

This year, depth isn't as big of a problem. I seriously doubt that CBJ will be as conservative in his play calling this year. He's already got $500 worth of talent/depth in most areas. Because I watched him coach up here at Cinci, and let me tell you--conservative is not in his nature. Seriously.
 
#77
#77
Every coach who has ever coached a team at any level goes conservative at times. It is just human nature and it is also very necessary in games especially if there is a massive talent gap. Sometimes, you have to call plays that slow the game down which is what he was doing.
 
#79
#79
Let's face it Jones hasn't had much to coach, up until now, but this year with the talent the Vol's have he'll be under the microscope on every call as will coach Debord.
This is Jones year to shine or stink, in only a little over 3 weeks, no less.
 
#80
#80
I can't name a coach that hasn't made some questionable decisions in the heat of battle.

I'm very pleased to have Butch. He seems to be the exact perfect fit for what we needed at the time we needed it most. We needed stability, someone with pride in selling the strong traditions, and the personality to draw talented young people to commit. His energy is contagious.

Not only that, but he has recruited some physically and mentally mature young men. None of his recruits look fragile to begin with and for the greatest part, they are very likeable and adapt well to the sport and the academics.

I cannot think of another coach I would rather have at this juncture in time.
 
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#81
#81
mscelinaVol said:
He's had to be conservative because of the lack of depth on the team.
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Actually, I think Spurrier would react just the opposite. You don't "have" to be conservative. It is a choice based on what you believe gives you the best chance to win. Sometimes, it is the right call like UGA 2013. But IMHO, it is more often the wrong call when teams are closely matched (Vandy 13, UF both years, MU last year).

I think both UGA games were well coached by Jones for different reasons.

This year, depth isn't as big of a problem. I seriously doubt that CBJ will be as conservative in his play calling this year. He's already got $500 worth of talent/depth in most areas. Because I watched him coach up here at Cinci, and let me tell you--conservative is not in his nature. Seriously.
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I hope you are right. Aggression could go a long way toward mitigating the well reported OL issues.
 
#82
#82
Dooby15 said:
Dooley had good players? We had a few gems in his time but nothing like what is required to win big in the SEC.
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He didn't have Butch Jones good recruiting classes to work with. But, the talent that he had when he came in was twice as highly rated as the talent Mizzou has been working with the past 2 years. They've done alright.
 
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#83
#83
sjt18 said:
Actually, I think Spurrier would react just the opposite. You don't "have" to be conservative. It is a choice based on what you believe gives you the best chance to win. Sometimes, it is the right call like UGA 2013. But IMHO, it is more often the wrong call when teams are closely matched (Vandy 13, UF both years, MU last year).
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I can see that, but I don't believe Spurrier ever went into a coaching situation where the team and morale were quite as abyssmal and having to play against the best teams in the country week in and week out.

I think both UGA games were well coached by Jones for different reasons.
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I do too, and I am really looking forward to seeing this game played on an even field of talent. CBJ matches up extremely well with CMR.

I hope you are right. Aggression could go a long way toward mitigating the well reported OL issues.
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The best way to counter OL woes is to get up off the ball faster--have plays develop in the backfield quicker. With the offensive weapons we have, and especially with Dobbs at QB and the addition of Kamara, I think that's exactly what's happening. Heck, the speed of the team overall looked to be vastly improved over last year, and our OL may still be...um...not up to the level we want but there's NO way it's as horrific as it was last year.

With the speed of our offensive weapons, CBJ is going to open up the playbook and, if he is true to the form he displayed at Cinci, we're going to need every single pair of receiver hands we have.
 
#84
#84
SaintLouisVol said:
He has -- at times -- become EXTREMELY conservative in close games. When you lose those games such as VU '13 and UF '14, it can be hard to swallow.

But, in fairness, you have to ask why he took that path. It is reasonable -- as suggested -- that he played the cards he had in terms of talent, and if the talent instilled more confidence, he'd be less inclined to be so tight.

We'll see.
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Yes he has been conserservative but he did not have the hoarses to push things. I am waiting to see what happens when we are up by 24 does he keep putting on the gas like Spurrier would? Spurrier said "we run our offense it is your job to stop us, if you can't the score keeps going up." In the TaxSlayer bowl he took his foot off the gas and Iowa scored some meaningless points.
 
#85
#85
My two cents:

We finally have enough talent where officiating and in game coaching calls will have much less of an impact. Scratching and clawing to stay alive can easily get derailed by a sketchy call or questionable 3rd down play.

Things are different when you tell Hurd, North, Von, Pig, Dobbs, and AK to make something special happen no matter what. Same thing on defense.

Now, Butch has made some iffy calls and decisions.. No doubt. But he's made some nasty ones too than leave you with your jaw on the floor.

I want to see the talent in there, along with DeBord.

IMO, bajakian's style of play doesn't work against elite athletes on a regular basis, especially when you have subpar/inexperienced athletes comparatively.
 
#86
#86
Captain Awesome said:
I've heard a number of people say that the jury is still out for them on whether or not CBJ is a good in-game coach. No one is questioning his recruiting ability (how could they?). But some have said that some calls over the past couple of years have raised concerns for them. Can anyone give me a reason for this? I'm not a huge football mind. I'm not going to be able to say, "We should've been in a 4-4 instead of a nickel." But the overall running of the game I have a pretty good feel for. I thought the fake field goal against Mizzou last year was very gutsy and a great call. However, I do remember a big game (against who I can't remember) where he challenged a call near the end of the game that wasn't close and we needed the timeout at the end and didn't have it and lost. I could see that as his guys up top not getting back to him in time and him making the challenge based off of what he saw. I personally haven't been really taken aback by anything I have seen though. If you're in that camp, what have you seen that makes you feel that way?
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Last year's Florida game still hurts me.
 
#87
#87
People are wanting a truly great coach and game manager. As it stands so far, CBJ has won the games he should and lost the games expected. I'm viewing the SC games washes with the UF and Vandy games.
So I see nothing wrong with "wait and see". He has done nothing to be called a bad coach, He has also done nothing (yet) to show a consistent pattern of pulling out unexpected wins. That may change with confidence of ever increasing talent. Which once again leads to "we will see".

I don't understand why some seem defensive. If you truly believe he is a complete coaching package, then you should feel confident that he will prove as much as the talent grows.
 
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#89
#89
DeBord might make a big difference in game management and more aggressive play calls when you have the other team on its heels.
 
#90
#90
master_of_vol said:
DeBord might make a big difference in game management and more aggressive play calls when you have the other team on its heels.
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The aggression of youth tends to give way to a wily cunning of experience.

Look for DeBord's game calling to be more subtle and nuanced than we've seen in the past couple of years, I think. Dude's got a lot of experience to pull from....
 
#91
#91
chargervol said:
People are wanting a truly great coach and game manager. As it stands so far, CBJ has won the games he should and lost the games expected. I'm viewing the SC games washes with the UF and Vandy games.
So I see nothing wrong with "wait and see". He has done nothing to be called a bad coach, He has also done nothing (yet) to show a consistent pattern of pulling out unexpected wins. That may change with confidence of ever increasing talent. Which once again leads to "we will see".

I don't understand why some seem defensive. If you truly believe he is a complete coaching package, then you should feel confident that he will prove as much as the talent grows.
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As usual, well said Charger. The jury is still out on Butch being a factor on the sideline that gives us an advantage. I thought he was "that" guy in 2013 with the narrow loss to Georgia and win vs SCar. However, as the embarrassing blowout losses piled up those feelings were somewhat negated....and then the bad loss to Vandy, and we were back to square one IMO.

Fast forward to last year.....no unexpected wins and one bad loss to Florida, so....a lotta headscratching imo. The bowl game matchup and subsequent blowout win was his saving grace entering 2015....he prepared that team to play Iowa like a champ. They should've blown that team out and they did. Well done, advantage swings back in his favor.

Now it's year 3...no more excuses for a 4 touchdown or loss to ANYBODY will suffice. We'll know who we have by January 2016 for sure.
 
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#92
#92
Here's the thing about that... Butch is more driven to be great than any other head coach I've ever seen. Was Nick Saban a "great" coach at Butch's
age? No, he wasn't. Butch is always looking for innovative ways to get better, in all aspects of the game. I think any questions about his game management
skills will be erased this fall with the addition of Debord, and the subtraction of The Accountant.

42 SEC players ranked Butch the #3 coach in the league, who am I to question that?
 
#93
#93
to me the best coaches "Do More with Less" or get ALL out of their roster. On that list I would put the names:
Nick Saban, Jim Harbaugh, Bob Stoops, Paul Johnson

On the other hand there is a list of "Do LESS with MORE", coaches who don't seem to get everything out of their roster, Win/Loss reflects that. I don't consider them to be GREAT coaches. On that list I would put: Mike Gundy, Les Miles, Mark Richt

We are yet to see if Coach Jones belongs on either of these lists, in short, he's won the games that he was expected to win and lost the games he was expected to lose. (in general). So, since this year is his first with a really good roster, we shall see if he overdelivers the projected 8 win total, or if the team has injuries or unexplained loses which fall short of 7 wins. we are about to find out.

Oh, good post OP, i like the questioning of assumptions.. Always a good thing.
 
#94
#94
You're going to have plenty of time to evaluate his coaching ability at UT, because he is going to build a great legacy here.
 
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#95
#95
Brianchevy said:
to me the best coaches "Do More with Less" or get ALL out of their roster. On that list I would put the names:
Nick Saban, Jim Harbaugh, Bob Stoops, Paul Johnson

On the other hand there is a list of "Do LESS with MORE", coaches who don't seem to get everything out of their roster, Win/Loss reflects that. I don't consider them to be GREAT coaches. On th
at list I would put: Mike Gundy, Les Miles, Mark Richt

We are yet to see if Coach Jones belongs on either of these lists, in short, he's won the games that he was expected to win and lost the games he was expected to lose. (in general). So, since this year is his first with a really good roster, we shall see if he overdelivers the projected 8 win total, or if the team has injuries or unexplained loses which fall short of 7 wins. we are about to find out.

Oh, good post OP, i like the questioning of assumptions.. Always a good thing.
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I mostly agree but on your great coaches list is replace bob stoops with urban Meyer. I haven't watched a ton of Oklahoma games but I've seen stoops straight out lose a couple they should have won (mainly ok state game this year when he made imo the worst decision I've ever seen a coach make and lost them the game). But agree in other points. He jury is still out on butch. And really all he needs to do is coach more aggressively. When in doubt go aggressive. It's the trademark of almost all great coaches.
 
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#96
#96
HoptownVol said:
Here's the thing about that... Butch is more driven to be great than any other head coach I've ever seen. Was Nick Saban a "great" coach at Butch's
age? No, he wasn't. Butch is always looking for innovative ways to get better, in all aspects of the game. I think any questions about his game management
skills will be erased this fall with the addition of Debord, and the subtraction of The Accountant.

42 SEC players ranked Butch the #3 coach in the league, who am I to question that?
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They voted him the 3rd coach in the SEC "they'd most like to play for"....not who was the 3rd best coach.
 
#97
#97
Gotta figure a way to save our time outs for the end of the game if needed. Talent is the answer, on seeing better results. That double reverse poor idea all together. Punting inside the 40 is hard to take, down and distance is critical, when the game is on the line, the outcome can really swing momentum. Defense just gotta step up on 3rd and long, I like pressure on the QB. Talent is the answer, I feel good about our talent, our coach, and the schemes we run. GO VOLS! WIN em ALL!
 
#98
#98
i had forgotten that Stoops did lose a game with bad clock management, yeah, i agree that Urban could replace his name on that list. Meyer always seems to take above average players and make a GREAT team, then very few of his guys ever end up playing in the pros.. Yes, Meyer is a DO MORE WITH LESS coach. he has the ring to show for it now.

:(

Let's hope Coach Jones can take this year's average SEC talent team and make them a 9-3 SEC East contender. THAT would be nice.
 
#99
#99
mscelinaVol said:
I can see that, but I don't believe Spurrier ever went into a coaching situation where the team and morale were quite as abyssmal and having to play against the best teams in the country week in and week out.
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You might be right but the situation at USCe wasn't very good. They had actually never really been a sustained winner. Prior to Spurrier winning 10+ three years in a row, USCe had never won 10 or more two years in a row. In fact, they had only won 10 games once in their history. In the 13 years since joining the SEC prior to Spurrier, they were 65-82 with a 37-67 record in conference. They'd never finished higher than 3rd in the East. They had finished last or next to last 4 times.

Not the same situation but in the same range.

Duke had never been any good either. They were homecoming fodder.

I do too, and I am really looking forward to seeing this game played on an even field of talent. CBJ matches up extremely well with CMR.
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I think Spurrier will always struggle with Jones also. I think the style match up favors Jones. Jones is an execution focused coach. Spurrier has made a career out of enticing opponents (like Fulmer) into trying to match wits with him. He has always seemed to struggle against coaches that have very disciplined execution.

...but there's NO way it's as horrific as it was last year.
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With all due respect to insiders and observers... I still agree with you. I think very few are actually allowed to see all of the parts working together. That will be a different product than the sum of individual efforts.

Honestly, if they could just teach the OL's to hold. I think we could live with a few more penalties in exchange for better pass pro.

With the speed of our offensive weapons, CBJ is going to open up the playbook and, if he is true to the form he displayed at Cinci, we're going to need every single pair of receiver hands we have.
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I hope you are right. I'm ready to see it.

FTR, if you look just at the "potential" of UT's skill players.... it is difficult not to be impressed. There are multiple WR's that would be the #1 target for most CFB teams... and probably most SEC teams. It got a bad reaction from a Mizzou fan when I said it previously but I don't think they have a single guy who could break the top 6 at UT over Croom, Pearson, Smith, Malone, Pig, or North... and then you have Johnson and Williams too.

Moore is a good talent and MU has gotten some practice noise out of a couple of other guys. But IMO all of the 8 guys plus Blanc would either start or be in the top 5 for MU... or USCe.... UK/Vandy without saying... Ark... maybe UF...

It is an embarrassing wealth of talent that needs to start fulfilling its potential.
 
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#100
#100
KBVol said:
They voted him the 3rd coach in the SEC "they'd most like to play for"....not who was the 3rd best coach.
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What difference does it make. Did I say they voted him "3rd best" coach in the league? A little comprehension goes a long way.
 
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