Carmelo is now a Knick

#51
#51
I'm not familiar with every insider, but every Knick insider that I know knew he was a colossal screw up before he walked in the door. He had been chummy with Dolan for awhile because they both had some common "pastimes". He constantly tore down Grunfeld angling for his job that he eventually got. I do remember some talking heads on tv saying that his trades were so bizarre that he was either a genius or an idiot, but I think everyone knew that he was an idiot.
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#52
#52
BTW, the Knicks were already the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. Even if Melo is a great scorer like others seem to think, I don't understand why people think he makes them better.
 
#53
#53
nbakerld said:
BTW, the Knicks were already the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. Even if Melo is a great scorer like others seem to think, I don't understand why people think he makes them better.
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That's not really a very important stat, there .500 record shows that. They will probably even regress a bit for about 10-15 games getting used to playing together, but in the long run adding another all star and saying he doesn't make them better is utgibbs/Fulmer logic.
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#54
#54
Carmelo will wear #7. He had initially decided on #30, in honor of Bernard King, but decided on #7 but gave no explanation.
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#55
#55
bamacheats said:
That's not really a very important stat, there .500 record shows that. They will probably even regress a bit for about 10-15 games getting used to playing together, but in the long run adding another all star and saying he doesn't make them better is utgibbs/Fulmer logic.
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Saying that they'll get better by simply adding an all-star is Isiah Thomas logic. You'll see. If this move does help them get Chris Paul (like some are saying it will) then it is worth it. Melo scores a lot because he shoots a lot, not because he's a particularly good scorer.

Speaking of logic, the Knicks shoot 46%. How does adding a guy that shoots less than team average make them better? Especially when he is going to end up taking the most shots. Where is the logic there?
 
#56
#56
nbakerld said:
Saying that they'll get better by simply adding an all-star is Isiah Thomas logic. You'll see. If this move does help them get Chris Paul (like some are saying it will) then it is worth it. Melo scores a lot because he shoots a lot, not because he's a particularly good scorer.

Speaking of logic, the Knicks shoot 46%. How does adding a guy that shoots less than team average make them better? Especially when he is going to end up taking the most shots. Where is the logic there?
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Wow! Having 2 of the top 10 players on the same team doesn't make a team better? Wow!
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#57
#57
bamacheats said:
Wow! Having 2 of the top 10 players on the same team doesn't make a team better? Wow!
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Only because Carmelo isn't a good scorer. That's territory reserved for Wilson Chandler.
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#58
#58
bamacheats said:
Wow! Having 2 of the top 10 players on the same team doesn't make a team better? Wow!
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So you aren't going to answer the question? 2 top 10 players? That is your opinion. I really like Amare, but I probably wouldn't consider him a top 10 player (definitely top 20) and Carmelo is better than average, but I wouldn't even call him good.
 
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#59
#59
VKAman said:
Only because Carmelo isn't a good scorer. That's territory reserved for Wilson Chandler.
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Chandler shoots a better %, but I still wouldn't label him a "good" scorer.
 
#60
#60
nbakerld said:
So you aren't going to answer the question? 2 top 10 players? That is your opinion. I really like Amare, but I probably wouldn't consider him a top 10 player (definitely top 20) and Carmelo is better than average, but I wouldn't even call him good.
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Not just my opinion, Google "top ten NBA players". They are both in three lists that I found. I got no problem with you having an opinion but I'm confident it will change by the end of the year.
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#62
#62
bamacheats said:
Not just my opinion, Google "top ten NBA players". They are both in three lists that I found. I got no problem with you having an opinion but I'm confident it will change by the end of the year.
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If he brings his shooting percent up to 50%, I will say that he is a great player, no problem.

He shoots below league average. Common sense and logic should be thumping you on the head telling you he is not a top 10 player. Allowing a guy that shoots below league average to take the bulk of your shots is like making a .220 hitter your lead-off. It doesn't make sense.
 
#63
#63
nbakerld said:
If he brings his shooting percent up to 50%, I will say that he is a great player, no problem.

He shoots below league average. Common sense and logic should be thumping you on the head telling you he is not a top 10 player. Allowing a guy that shoots below league average to take the bulk of your shots is like making a .220 hitter your lead-off. It doesn't make sense.
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You're missing the point, putting too much emphasis on an individual statistic in a team sport. He makes the TEAM better.
I read a Nugget blog a couple of months ago that addressed this issue since critics readily point it out. Long story short, other players shooting % went up. He makes the team better. Besides, he was in Denver, who else was going to shoot?
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#64
#64
bamacheats said:
You're missing the point, putting too much emphasis on an individual statistic in a team sport. He makes the TEAM better.
I read a Nugget blog a couple of months ago that addressed this issue since critics readily point it out. Long story short, other players shooting % went up. He makes the team better. Besides, he was in Denver, who else was going to shoot?
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When? He was like the longest tenured Nugget. I can understand if he had just joined the team and then their % went up, but that isn't case.

And those saying that he's on a better team so his FG% will go up...you sure about that? Ever checked his stats with team USA?
 
#65
#65
nbakerld said:
When? He was like the longest tenured Nugget. I can understand if he had just joined the team and then their % went up, but that isn't case.

And those saying that he's on a better team so his FG% will go up...you sure about that? Ever checked his stats with team USA?
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You're really starting to sound like utgibbs. Players come and go in Denver, hard to believe I know, but it happened. He's the best post up forward in the game. He can easily create his own shot. He now has another star to take some D pressure off. No one said his % will go up because he's on the Knicks. If you want to argue at least learn to read.
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#66
#66
bamacheats said:
Knicks didn't get better? That's crazy talk! Melo doesn't shoot a high % but I'm betting that it will rise playing with Amare. Plus, what seems to be lost is Billups. He's on the tail end of his career but bringing along a pg that Melo is already used to playing with is huge!
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What do you have to say for yourself, now?
 
#67
#67
nbakerld said:
What do you have to say for yourself, now?
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He's never had another star player. I also said you're probably going to see a 10-15 regression until they learn to play D'Antoni ball.
Are you now on record saying that his % will go down? Sounds like that is what you are assuming.
It's hard for me to believe that anyone thinks that 2 all stars on a team doesn't make that team better. Miami prove that to you?
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#68
#68
I got the Knicks finishing .500-ish to end the season. Moving forward, D'Antoni's garbage style isn't going to win any titles.
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#69
#69
bamacheats said:
He's never had another star player. I also said you're probably going to see a 10-15 regression until they learn to play D'Antoni ball.
Are you now on record saying that his % will go down? Sounds like that is what you are assuming.
It's hard for me to believe that anyone thinks that 2 all stars on a team doesn't make that team better. Miami prove that to you?
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Iverson and Billups?

I've never said that on or off the record. What are you talking about? I thought you were going to address the comment about my reading skills.

It's not about having all-stars it's about having the right kind of all-stars. You know why Lebron + Wade + Bosh works? Because they all shoot a high FG %.
 
#70
#70
nbakerld said:
Iverson and Billups?

I've never said that on or off the record. What are you talking about? I thought you were going to address the comment about my reading skills.

It's not about having all-stars it's about having the right kind of all-stars. You know why Lebron + Wade + Bosh works? Because they all shoot a high FG %.
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Lol! You reference Iverson and then continue to cry about%. Lol!
Then Billups was a star player in Denver but now that he's in NY he's not? Lol!
Billups is the reason the high price was worth it. They're suiting up tonight, we'll see how long it takes to gel.
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#71
#71
bamacheats said:
Lol! You reference Iverson and then continue to cry about%. Lol!
Then Billups was a star player in Denver but now that he's in NY he's not? Lol!
Billups is the reason the high price was worth it. They're suiting up tonight, we'll see how long it takes to gel.
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Yeah, Iverson sucks. He is one of my top 10 favorites all time (because he was so fun to watch) but I'll be the first to admit he sucks. I referenced them both though because Iverson and Billups are stars in most people's eyes. In my eyes they are the wrong kind of stars. Just like Melo.
 
#72
#72
nbakerld said:
Yeah, Iverson sucks. He is one of my top 10 favorites all time (because he was so fun to watch) but I'll be the first to admit he sucks. I referenced them both though because Iverson and Billups are stars in most people's eyes. In my eyes they are the wrong kind of stars. Just like Melo.
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Out of curiosity who is the right kind of star in your eyes?
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#73
#73
Look at it this way. It's actually very simple. Have you ever wondered why big men dominate in the NBA? It's because teams that rebound and shoot a high FG % dominate. What do big men do? The dominant ones always shoot a high FG %. What about the non-pivots to dominate the game? Larry Bird? Michael Jordan? Magic Johnson? They all shot 50+% for their careers. That's why they were so dominant.

Another example. America has the best basketball in the world. What separates the national teams that won from the ones that lost?

Winners
MJ, Magic, Barkley, Bird, etc.
Lebron, Howard, Wade, etc.

Losers
Iverson, Marbury, Jefferson, etc.

Tell me, what's the difference between these team leaders?
 
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#74
#74
VolBuck24 said:
Out of curiosity who is the right kind of star in your eyes?
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The ones that shoot a high FG%. You can go to the all-star game simply by scoring, even if you do it in a very inefficient manner. You can get a max contract simply by scoring. Doesn't matter how much it hurts your team. If you look awesome and athletic when you score then the fans, coaches, and scouts tend to forget how much you miss. Our eyes lie to us. We can't tell the difference between a 50% shooter and 40% shooter without looking at the box score, so we tend to like the guy that looks the coolest. The kind of all-star I want is the guy that shoots around 50% or more.
 
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#75
#75
FWIW that loser Kobe has a career fg% of .455
Carmelo has a career fg % of .460.
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