Bye Bye Louisville

#677
#677
Weezer said:
fyp- A good cop who follows regulations should have nothing to fear. Of course, in this situation, I think regulations(no-knock warrants) are wrong, which is why I don't think the officers should be charged with murder. My biggest problem is no body-cams and cops not policing their shots.
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A good cop, and all cops, should insist on one. The way things are twisted I would insist on it.
 
#678
#678
cHiZzLeVOL said:
Yeah because cops make 12 million in their lifetime...... lol
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Note I didn't say the cops, I said the judge and those who wrote the justification for the warrant (perhaps cops); and, yeah, I realize that requiring them to pay is about as useless as huge fines that anybody else can't pay. Systemic abuse like the FBI and FISA warrants go against our constitutional protections; and, no, I don't think most of us will ever be personally affected, but we should all be incensed by official corruption wherever and whenever.
 
#679
#679
volinbham said:
I'll leave it after this - it's only irresponsible on the part of the officers if they were supposed to be on but they chose not to follow the rules. If the rules say they should be off for those situations then it is a problem of the rules and not the officers. At this point I cannot say which it is.
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I agree with that. All I've seen is that they had their body-cams off. I've not seen reports that it was regulation for them to be off, If it was, that should be a story IMO. We should know that. And if it is regulation, then I think it cannot be held against the cops involved. But no way in hell should it be regulation that in that kind of situation you turn your cams off.
 
#681
#681
C-south said:
It was an unfortunate incident for sure but im not sure how you hold anyone accountable or who you would hold accountable. Do you hold the officers accountable? The judge that signed off on the warrant? Why not that particular boyfriend if he fired first? Do we start blaming firefighters if they can’t save someone’s home? Are first responders gonna be held accountable if they aren’t able to resuscitate someone?
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You fell off the cliff of common sense right here. These cops were not breaking in to the home at 2:00 in the morning for exigency or to save life or limb. They were not first responders. They were simply there to go pew pew pew and get their Miami Vice rocks off. They had all the time in the world to get the drugs and get the recipient sense they were tracking the package.
 
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#684
#684
Damn, I've been trying to keep up with all the responses, so if I missed someone, sorry.
 
#686
#686
AM64 said:
Note I didn't say the cops, I said the judge and those who wrote the justification for the warrant (perhaps cops); and, yeah, I realize that requiring them to pay is about as useless as huge fines that anybody else can't pay. Systemic abuse like the FBI and FISA warrants go against our constitutional protections; and, no, I don't think most of us will ever be personally affected, but we should all be incensed by official corruption wherever and whenever.
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The cop who was negligent is being held accountable. Two cops were shot. One innocent civilian was killed. It’s not a great situation period.

Mistakes happen and are always going to happen. No matter how well trained individuals are people are still humans and humans make errors. Are we going to “riot” etc every single time something happens that shouldn’t? Or is it just because it is the new thing to do?

Why is nothing said about society when innocent people are killed by criminals? Why don’t riots happen then? Is it just because there is no “system” to blame at that point? You can only blame an “individual” and that isn’t a big deal to people?
 
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#687
#687
Rickyvol77 said:
If they are violent or involved in gangs or sells to kids then absolutely they are
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There's already charges in the books that speak specifically to what you are worried about without needing to have drug laws enforced.

Violence and contributing to the delinquency of a minor are in a cops tool bag. Leave the Miami Vice drug busts for Hollywood.
 
#688
#688
Rasputin_Vol said:
You fell off the cliff of common sense right here. These cops were not breaking in to the home at 2:00 in the morning for exigency or to save life or limb. They were not first responders. They were simply there to go pew pew pew and get their Miami Vice rocks off. They had all the time in the world to get the drugs and get the recipient sense they were tracking the package.
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You’re too involved in the drug aspect, for whatever reason, and no matter the reason for the warrant if they were fired upon they have a right to return fire. As far as I know these officers haven’t written any laws, policies, or regulations.
 
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#689
#689
Weezer said:
It's not open and shut when someone needlessly loses their life. Something went wrong.
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That’s true and has to do with protocol and the war on drugs.... we do need changes in those areas.... not charging the cops with murder seems pretty obvious they are not guilty based on the evidence that we know about.
 
#691
#691
cHiZzLeVOL said:
The cop who was negligent is being held accountable. Two cops were shot. One innocent civilian was killed. It’s not a great situation period.

Mistakes happen and are always going to happen. No matter how well trained individuals are people are still humans and humans make errors. Are we going to “riot” etc every single time something happens that shouldn’t? Or is it just because it is the new thing to do?

Why is nothing said about society when innocent people are killed by criminals? Why don’t riots happen then? Is it just because there is no “system” to blame at that point? You can only blame an “individual” and that isn’t a big deal to people?
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Seems like we are given the "mistakes happen" line whenever a civilian dies at the hands of cops. That same courtesy isn't extended to the citizens in the other direction. Civilians have to be perfect and mistake free in their thoughts and actions.
 
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#692
#692
Rasputin_Vol said:
Seems like we are given the "mistakes happen" line whenever a civilian dies at the hands of cops. That same courtesy isn't extended to the citizens in the other direction. Civilians have to be perfect and mistake free in their thoughts and actions.
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Did I say that cops who make mistakes shouldn’t be held accountable? Or did you just come to that conclusion?
 
#693
#693
C-south said:
It was an unfortunate incident for sure but im not sure how you hold anyone accountable or who you would hold accountable. Do you hold the officers accountable? The judge that signed off on the warrant? Why not that particular boyfriend if he fired first? Do we start blaming firefighters if they can’t save someone’s home? Are first responders gonna be held accountable if they aren’t able to resuscitate someone?
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The judge has an obligation to seek out the truth before signing a warrant, and the people presenting the information have an obligation to be honest about all things - those are the guilty parties. The guys at the door are the fall guys unless they actually prepared the warrants and were untruthful. Breaking down a door to a residence should be for the sake of saving a life and nothing else. No we don't blame someone for trying and failing to save a life - they aren't God, and that's a far different issue.

Here's another question. How the hell do you know someone in the house isn't deaf or substantially hearing impaired - wearing earplugs to sleep?
 
#694
#694
C-south said:
You’re too involved in the drug aspect, for whatever reason, and no matter the reason for the warrant if they were fired upon they have a right to return fire. As far as I know these officers haven’t written any laws, policies, or regulations.
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But they zealously enforce these laws. And they seem like they are unwilling to change the status quo. That is a problem because they need changing.
 
#696
#696
Rasputin_Vol said:
But they zealously enforce these laws. And they seem like they are unwilling to change the status quo. That is a problem because they need changing.
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It’s funny you say this because the last time I checked it is the individuals states vote into power who make these changes. How about people start electing people who will make changes for the better? Instead of what is “popular” because they follow a certain party line.
 
#698
#698
C-south said:
You’re too involved in the drug aspect, for whatever reason, and no matter the reason for the warrant if they were fired upon they have a right to return fire. As far as I know these officers haven’t written any laws, policies, or regulations.
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The drug aspect is the entire reason for them going to the residence. It is a significant matter.
 
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#699
#699
cHiZzLeVOL said:
It’s funny you say this because the last time I checked it is the individuals states vote into power who make these changes. How about people start electing people who will make changes for the better? Instead of what is “popular” because they follow a certain party line.
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Oh, so here we go with this "voting" nonsense. Nevermind. You're one of those people.
 
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#700
#700
cHiZzLeVOL said:
The cop who was negligent is being held accountable. Two cops were shot. One innocent civilian was killed. It’s not a great situation period.

Mistakes happen and are always going to happen. No matter how well trained individuals are people are still humans and humans make errors. Are we going to “riot” etc every single time something happens that shouldn’t? Or is it just because it is the new thing to do?

Why is nothing said about society when innocent people are killed by criminals? Why don’t riots happen then? Is it just because there is no “system” to blame at that point? You can only blame an “individual” and that isn’t a big deal to people?
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I've been very clear that rioters deserve anything they get - too bad - wrong place, wrong time, wrong idea. Mob rule and civil disobedience to bring that about has no place in civil society.

As to the other, my point is simply there was nothing about this escapade that went wrong to justify knocking down a door to a private residence. And there's nothing that would rise to the level violating the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects ...
 
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