Butch to allow 7 on 7

#126
#126
Behr said:
But you also have a shot at getting something worse. I know you know that. That is what a lot of people are afraid of, especially with our record on hiring coaches, and for now they had rather see if Butch can turn that corner, and he's done some good things. Some think he can, you call them Butch apologists and Butch worshippers. It's crazy.

Everyone has an opinion.
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I think we all agree that Jones is getting that shot.

As for getting something worse, Jones has basically won just below what the talent level says he should overall. UT wouldn't be selling a job like the one Kiffin took... or Dooley took... or Jones took. Jones gets max credit for addressing the discipline, academic, and recruiting issues. UT is now an attractive job and would draw interest from proven coaches.

Anything can be botched but there would be no reason to take a chance on a Dooley/Jones type coach... a mid-major coach considered a possible "up and comer".

Your fears are unwarranted when compared to keeping Jones if he doesn't prove something this fall.
 
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#128
#128
sjt18 said:
Your fears are unwarranted when compared to keeping Jones if he doesn't prove something this fall.
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I think you were full of crap when you said "pay attention". You obviously don't.
 
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#130
#130
sjt18 said:
Yeah... better to tolerate mediocrity than to take a chance that the next guy can take you to the next level, right? If your goal is mediocrity then you don't do anything about a coach producing mediocre results. If your goal is championships... you NEVER tolerate mediocre results.

You have either twisted my words or assigned something to me that I did not say. I have MANY times said Jones has done some good things. However there are patterns in his coaching going back to year one that indicate he is not the coach to take UT to championships. You can't lose to an inferior Vandy roster in year 1 with a bowl on the line for instance. That has been a repeating pattern.

UT has had high attrition since Jones arrived. Jones has had higher than average injury rates and is just now changing staff and philosophy in S&C. Jones' game management problems are well documented. For two years, Jones pushed what seemed to be excessive levels of physicality and fatigue (pace) in fall camp. UT had lots of August injuries. Last year, he seemed to swing to the opposite extreme allowing Hurd and others to take days off on their own discretion. UT had more injuries during the season. These are real problems that seem to continue to plague UT even as the good things Jones HAS done have resulted in better results.

You could say that Jones has lead the team half way up the mountain... but that isn't a guarantee he can take them the rest of the way. That may take someone else... perhaps even someone else who wouldn't have been able to rebuild the program from where it was to where it is.


With all due respect, we've heard "before we make a conclusion" pretty much any time a Jones shortcoming has been revealed starting the very first year. First it wasn't his system then it wasn't his players then they weren't mature enough then they weren't deep enough... There's always going to be a next excuse followed by "before we make a conclusion".

There are reasons Bama didn't lose those players... and others as to why it wouldn't have mattered that much if they had. They have depth. They have a consistent philosophy and method for developing and maintaining the health of players. These aren't incidental things. They are the direct results of Saban's actions and choices.
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Just stfu.. We get it.. you want him gone. You do this every thread no matter what the topic is. This thread is about CBJ allowing 7 v 7 practices. Do you have an opinion on whether or not it will help the team? Build chemistry and timing between the QB and the receivers?

If so please give it.. otherwise take your pitiful, bitter a$$ somewhere else... or try xanax, or alcohol, or getting laid, something to get you to chill out..
 
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#131
#131
buckfama said:
Just stfu.. We get it.. you want him gone. You do this every thread no matter what the topic is. This thread is about CBJ allowing 7 v 7 practices. Do you have an opinion on whether or not it will help the team? Build chemistry and timing between the QB and the receivers?

If so please give it.. otherwise take your pitiful, bitter a$$ somewhere else... or try xanax, or alcohol, or getting laid, something to get you to chill out..
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To be fair, sjt has commented on the topic of this thread and was optimistic. I personally think he does want Butch to succeed and if he does, I feel confident sjt will be as happy about it as anyone else. I'm also pretty sure he doesn't think Butch will succeed, but that's just an opinion and we all have those.

That's not my argument with him.

Tifwiw.
 
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#132
#132
Behr said:
To be fair, sjt has commented on the topic of this thread and was optimistic. I personally think he does want Butch to succeed and if he does, I feel confident sjt will be as happy about it as anyone else. I'm also pretty sure he doesn't think Butch will succeed, but that's just an opinion and we all have those.

That's not my argument with him.

Tifwiw.
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Behr, he does this every thread. No matter what the subject he HAS to troll someone into a pro/con CBJ debate. It's like a bratty kid with a broken toy. Take them to the zoo and they still pitch a fit. Take them to get ice cream and they are still gonna whine about the broken toy.

Just give it a rest..

Edit- and for someone that "wants" him to succeed he sure does have plenty of negative "facts" and "opinions" to spew over every thread. For the record I like Sjt and used to enjoy his posts, especially during the season. He seems very kowledgeable about football. But now he gives a little snippet about the subject and seems to go trolling so he can debate someone nearly every thread. Heaven forbid someone say something positive.
 
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#133
#133
Some people see these forums (fora) as a chance to hang out with fellow Vols fans and have friendly discussions (mostly positive, 'fan-like') about our team and the program.

Others see the forums as a place to do virtual battle, to sharpen debating skills, to play the grand game of arguiing. In short, to compete and win.

I think SJT is one of the latter.

I think he has positive thoughts, he just doesn't feel any need to start a post if all he's going to do is agree with you. So we don't see those comradely elements of his personality.

I like SJT. I like reading what he has to think. I do think he gets a bit pedantic sometimes, but don't we all?

These days, he's down on the head coach. Lost faith in him. I haven't yet (though I am concerned), so I find myself disagreeing with his perspective a lot, as you do.

But that doesn't really make him a troll. We have a few of those (more than a few), but SJT's not one of them.
 
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#135
#135
buckfama said:
Just stfu..
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Just... NO. I've been here a long time. I speak my mind and while people DO get offended at my strong opinions... I try not to make it personally offensive... like you just did. Grow up.

We get it.. you want him gone.
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Then you don't "get it". I want UT to have a championship caliber coach and program. I would MUCH rather see that with Jones than have to take a chance on going through hiring and firing more coaches to get there. The problem isn't that I "hate" Jones or want him gone. The problem is that for all the good he's done in recruiting and off the field... he's creatively found ways to LOSE on the field when opportunities were laid out in front of him. It has happened in each of his first 4 years... with last year being the worst blown opportunity.

You do this every thread no matter what the topic is.
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I don't post in every thread... not matter what the topic is. And if my answer seem similar... then it is probably because similar questions keep coming up... with similar answers from people who you find more comforting.

This thread is about CBJ allowing 7 v 7 practices.
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Yeah. And if you go back through it... you'll note that I've been willing to talk about that and to give Jones credit for coming around to it.

Do you have an opinion on whether or not it will help the team? Build chemistry and timing between the QB and the receivers?
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Obviously you attacked me without even attempting to find out if I did. I have said that it was a good move too long in coming. It will help the QB/receiver rapport and MAY even help the receivers learn to avoid soft tissue injuries since they can work on cuts and landings without worrying about getting hit.

I think one of the possible greatest benefits will be the practice DB's get in coverage. Drills don't simulate actual coverage very well. Maybe if they'd been doing 7 on 7 all along UT's secondary wouldn't have lost Ridley for UGA's last TD.

This was a good move though it shouldn't have been necessary. MANY people here questioned why it wasn't being done from the start.

If so please give it.. otherwise take your pitiful, bitter a$$ somewhere else... or try xanax, or alcohol, or getting laid, something to get you to chill out..
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I am not bitter in the least. I simply want to see a championship caliber coach at the helm of UT. Not a guy who has the SEC East within grasp two years running and can't close the deal. Not a guy who loses to Vandy to miss a bowl opportunity. Not a guy who loses to Muschamp and the worst UF team in a few decades.

So with all due respect to your "sensitivities"... I think I'll stay and keep asking for MORE from UT's HC.
 
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#136
#136
VFL-82-JP said:
Some people see these forums (fora) as a chance to hang out with fellow Vols fans and have friendly discussions (mostly positive, 'fan-like') about our team and the program.

Others see the forums as a place to do virtual battle, to sharpen debating skills, to play the grand game of arguiing. In short, to compete and win.

I think SJT is one of the latter.

I think he has positive thoughts, he just doesn't feel any need to start a post if all he's going to do is agree with you. So we don't see those comradely elements of his personality.

I like SJT. I like reading what he has to think. I do think he gets a bit pedantic sometimes, but don't we all?

These days, he's down on the head coach. Lost faith in him. I haven't yet (though I am concerned), so I find myself disagreeing with his perspective a lot, as you do.

But that doesn't really make him a troll. We have a few of those (more than a few), but SJT's not one of them.
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:hi:

This guy... "gets it".

I love UT football. I like Jones. I'm just completely unsatisfied with "almost" winning... and the excuses for failure in various shapes that always seem to follow.

My posts that touch on Jones being fired are based on what I think should happen if trends don't change and "XYZ" occur. My "wish" is that Jones would shock the world this year, enter the season with a conditioned/developed/well-coached team, avoid injuries, and steal Bama's candy with a dominating SEC championship season.

And maybe different from some of those who are critical... I DO think he's assembled all the necessary components to do it. It is all on him now.
 
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#137
#137
Behr said:
To be fair, sjt has commented on the topic of this thread and was optimistic. I personally think he does want Butch to succeed and if he does, I feel confident sjt will be as happy about it as anyone else. I'm also pretty sure he doesn't think Butch will succeed, but that's just an opinion and we all have those.

That's not my argument with him.

Tifwiw.
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I'm about 30/70 on Jones right now. The 30% lies mostly in the hope that he's made the right changes to keep the team healthy. If he does that things will get better even without other improvements. (Though I really do like the D staff he's assembled and expect other improvements). Without that, I'm afraid there's little else that will make things better.

The 70% comes from his game management and staff selections previous to this one... and his tolerance of certain staff members who didn't seem to be performing. A HC has to see some of that coming before it hurts him on the field... Lawson is example #1. Also, Jones in part will rise or fall on his confidence in his ability as an offensive coach. On D, he surrounded himself with some proven, big name coaches. On O... it looks more like he hired guys to mentor in his offensive philosophy. If it really takes a QB with Dobbs like mobility to make it go... Jones is in big trouble. If he can make it work more like he did in Cincy then QD or JG can be successful in it.

Obviously the best solution would be for him and the new staff to turn the corner in a big way this fall. Although it is really hard to miss 10 wins like UT has these past two years then accept less again this year... Jones would probably be overperforming a little bit if he could get 9 regular season wins this fall.


I would probably be HAPPIER if Jones were to become really successful... because right now I don't expect it.
 
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#138
#138
sjt18 said:
Can you point to the context where I said "pay attention"?
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sjt18 said:
And I am sure that I just misunderstand the posts of those whose reaction to any and all criticism is to deflect, excuse, or dismiss in an obvious effort to act as if failures aren't really failures but just "reasonable expectations". I am also sure I misunderstand those who make excuses that DIRECTLY imply that UT should not expect more. If you have not seen them.... you aren't looking.
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You did not say "pay attention". To me you implied that he wasn't paying attention. In the context, Is that fair?
 
#139
#139
Behr said:
You did not say "pay attention". To me you implied that he wasn't paying attention. In the context, Is that fair?
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I wouldn't and didn't :) say it that way.

It does seem that I am more sensitive to them than you are. That's not anything I would think of as offensive to either of us nor is pointing things like that out to someone who may not have noticed.

Was it fair when you said I was "full of crap"?
 
#140
#140
sjt18 said:
I wouldn't and didn't :) say it that way.

It does seem that I am more sensitive to them than you are. That's not anything I would think of as offensive to either of us nor is pointing things like that out to someone who may not have noticed.

Was it fair when you said I was "full of crap"?
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You have said you like to argue. You agreed with JP above on debating, battling, competing and winning debates. So Im automatically at a disadvantage.

You just think you're more sensitive to those comments than I am, but I don't think you are. I look for them on both sides, and I see them. But, I see them differently than you do.

So who's right? You tell me. You've already made assumptions about me that were wrong. You have no idea, yet you think you do.

Haha. If you and I were sitting at a restaurant bar waiting on a table having a beer having this discussion, I would laugh and say "you're full of crap". Yes, it's fair. Just as fair as things you've said to me.:thumbsup:
 
#141
#141
Behr said:
So who's right? You tell me. You've already made assumptions about me that were wrong. You have no idea, yet you think you do.
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Only by deductions made from your posts. Let's say that I have not seen you contend with someone like WiseOlVol like you do me. I am 99% sure he's one of the ones who has indicated he'd be content with nothing better (not in those exact words but clearly his intent).

What assumptions do you think I've made?

Haha. If you and I were sitting at a restaurant bar waiting on a table having a beer having this discussion, I would laugh and say "you're full of crap". Yes, it's fair. Just as fair as things you've said to me.:thumbsup:
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OK. That works. But those types of messages don't always come across as intended when written. Mine often don't.
 
#142
#142
sjt18 said:
Only by deductions made from your posts. Let's say that I have not seen you contend with someone like WiseOlVol like you do me. I am 99% sure he's one of the ones who has indicated he'd be content with nothing better (not in those exact words but clearly his intent).

What assumptions do you think I've made?

OK. That works. But those types of messages don't always come across as intended when written. Mine often don't.
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Well, that's what I meant by you need to pay more attention.:)

Yea, you asked, I answered honestly. Crazy how that works.
 
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