Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#801
#801
tvolsfan said:
Tennessee has played exactly one team with superior talent. Butch Jones being a coward cost us the Oklahoma game and Butch Jones being an coward and an idiot cost us the Florida game.
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Passion and reason don't travel in the same cart, obviously.
 
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#803
#803
daj2576 said:
if UT was 7-1 right now, we would be over-performing in ways that Mac hasn't ever done. That is laudable, but not realistic and extremely rare.

I feel like every year I'm saying the same things. It wasn't that long ago that I was being told how Malzahn was a football wizard and that I was being disrespectful when I said that he was not COY material, in fact he was substantially over-valued. Mac will be a far more stable coach than 2 of the last three clowns Florida has hired but being taller than a toddler doesn't make you tall.
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Daj, I like you. I respect what you're doing. But you've got this wrong this time around.

We had two TD leads in the fourth quarter against the teams that supposedly had better or equal talent. TWO TD LEADS. Teams that are clearly out-talented don't achieve two TD leads in the fourth quarter. That's what's truly rare.

Quite frankly, we had a lead in the fourth quarter against the team you would say is hands down the most talented in the nation.

The model is great in quintiles. The first quintile is probably going to own the second quintile 95% of the time.

Where it falls over is within quintiles. I suspect this is why it's barely over a coin flip for the SEC this year and only 70% as a whole.

All the teams in the top quintile can beat each other on any given day on a neutral field. I suspect if #1 played #20 it would be about 70% in that scenario.

Florida and Oklahoma are obvious this year - major coaching errors across both Saturdays led to epic collapses. Arkansas was more proof of needed OJT. Not understanding that Dobbs making plays with his legs makes Dobbs better at making plays with his arm is just stubborn, sophomoric, and in the end costly.

Most of us would accept Alabama BEFORE it was played. However, Bama again showed Butch being extremely weak on the analytics (again) and on Saturday decisions when he failed to adjust on field goals which eventually cost us the game.

If 100 coaches could have Florida where they are now, 100 coaches would have Tennessee no worse than 7 - 1 (I don't believe either of those, by the way).

I like Butch enough that I'm going to believe that - through the missed opportunities of this season - he has completed his OJT, learned what he needed to learn, and is now an elite Saturday coach.
 
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#804
#804
It's amazing. People can downplay the talent, rip on the fan base, and undervalue the strength of the program, but somehow, it's attacking this fraud of a coach that gets you labeled a 'Negavol.' Anything to avoid another coachig search, I guess.
 
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#805
#805
tvolsfan said:
It's amazing. People can downplay the talent, rip on the fan base, and undervalue the strength of the program, but somehow, it's attacking this fraud of a coach that gets you labeled a ' Negavol.' Anything to avoid another coachig search, I guess.
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Which is he. A coward, idiot or a fraud? You've called Jones all three so which is he sir?
 
#806
#806
I want someone to look at posts #412-414 and tell me where all this great talent Florida has is
 
#809
#809
tvolsfan said:
It's amazing. People can downplay the talent, rip on the fan base, and undervalue the strength of the program, but somehow, it's attacking this fraud of a coach that gets you labeled a ' Negavol.' Anything to avoid another coachig search, I guess.
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I think most of it is we are past the meat of our schedule, 95% or better of Volnation, believe we will win out, so now all comments are based off past games. For me a Negavol is the fan that says we don't have a chance to win our bowl game without even knowing who we will play.

Go Vols!
 
#811
#811
Iam4utalways said:
I think most of it is we are past the meat of our schedule, 95% or better of Volnation, believe we will win out, so now all comments are based off past games. For me a Negavol is the fan that says we don't have a chance to win our bowl game without even knowing who we will play.

Go Vols!
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We'll win out. We were pretty much a sure thing to win out after Bama. The bowl game will almost certainly feature an opponent with less talent.
 
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#812
#812
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Daj, I like you. I respect what you're doing. But you've got this wrong this time around.

We had two TD leads in the fourth quarter against the teams that supposedly had better or equal talent. TWO TD LEADS. Teams that are clearly out-talented don't achieve two TD leads in the fourth quarter. That's what's truly rare.

Quite frankly, we had a lead in the fourth quarter against the team you would say is hands down the most talented in the nation.

The model is great in quintiles. The first quintile is probably going to own the second quintile 95% of the time.

Where it falls over is within quintiles. I suspect this is why it's barely over a coin flip for the SEC this year and only 70% as a whole.

All the teams in the top quintile can beat each other on any given day on a neutral field. I suspect if #1 played #20 it would be about 70% in that scenario.

Florida and Oklahoma are obvious this year - major coaching errors across both Saturdays led to epic collapses. Arkansas was more proof of needed OJT. Not understanding that Dobbs making plays with his legs makes Dobbs better at making plays with his arm is just stubborn, sophomoric, and in the end costly.

Most of us would accept Alabama BEFORE it was played. However, Bama again showed Butch being extremely weak on the analytics (again) and on Saturday decisions when he failed to adjust on field goals which eventually cost us the game.

If 100 coaches could have Florida where they are now, 100 coaches would have Tennessee no worse than 7 - 1 (I don't believe either of those, by the way).

I like Butch enough that I'm going to believe that - through the missed opportunities of this season - he has completed his OJT, learned what he needed to learn, and is now an elite Saturday coach.
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Your second to the last paragraph is a simply misstatement of what I am saying. Most coaches are controlled and perform to their talent. Few coaches over-perform in a way that would have UT at 7-1, just like few coaches perform in a such a way that would have Florida performing outside of a game from where they are now. You don't have to believe it, it is immaterial to the veracity of the data whether you believe it or not.

The rest, we have discussed.
 
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#813
#813
tvolsfan said:
We'll win out. We were pretty much a sure thing to win out after Bama. The bowl game will almost certainly feature an opponent with less talent.
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95% of Volnation feel the same way. It's nice to be able to relax as a fan and really expect wins. It just sucks it's so late in the year.

Go Vols!
 
#815
#815
butchna said:
They had talent on both lines and some speed for Saban to work with...he had to huff on adding talent and did quickly but they weren't the hopeless mess Dooley left Butch.
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So I'm safe in assuming you actually researched who was still on the roster out of those classes? Surely you wouldn't just say they had talent without verifying it.
 
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#816
#816
when CBJ took over,I thought it would take 5 to 6 years at least, to get the team built up to,where we as fans want it to be and I believe he has the team headed in the right direction
 
#818
#818
99gator said:
I want someone to look at posts #412-414 and tell me where all this great talent Florida has is
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I read it. Very detailed work.

It took us a few posts to get the Shula deal worked out. Maybe this can be addressed now.
 
#819
#819
daj2576 said:
Your second to the last paragraph is a simply misstatement of what I am saying. Most coaches are controlled and perform to their talent. Few coaches over-perform in a way that would have UT at 7-1, just like few coaches perform in a such a way that would have Florida performing outside of a game from where they are now. You don't have to believe it, it is immaterial to the veracity of the data whether you believe it or not.

The rest, we have discussed.
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We were clearly more talented than Florida and Arkansas.

That's not looking at a spreadsheet, although 99gator has even done that for us. That's looking at the real world outside the back door. You say Florida is supposed to be more talented than us. Maybe that would be the case if the rival rankings over the last four years could still be weighted equally.

Your model says we are more talented than Oklahoma. I'm willing to say we were pretty even against them. Which means, Butch clearly majorly underperformed to allow them to win the game!

The model says Georgia has more talent than us. It's not clear to me, and it's especially not clear when the most important member of their football team - the QB - is also the biggest question mark on the team. Throw in they lost their best player overall on the first play of the game, and I think the model prediction is very much in question.

I certainly have no problem with the idea that talent is the most important factor in determining the outcome of college football games. I would say it's almost infallible with teams of different quintiles.

However, we are talking about a model that is a third wrong. Where? If it is nearly infallible between teams of different quintiles, where does it fall over?

Clearly within quintiles.

I'll be honest, daj. You're in a place that I've been for a long time. Does a democratic society have any meaning in a data driven world? If the "veracity of the data" can't be argued, then democracy has no meaning. We should let the 10 best technocrats run the whole show. We shouldn't even play these games. We should roll the 12-sided dungeon and dragons dice and assign the most talented team numbers 1 - 8. Or 1 - 4 and 9 - 12. It's all the same. Keep in mind too, all this "data" is absolutely subjective. It's good subjective data, but guess what, F = G m1*m2 / r^2 is just an approximation as well.
 
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#821
#821
Bottom line is that this argument won't be won or lost any time soon. The way I see it is that the only thing that will settle it is to let them play the games.
 
#822
#822
ReaderVol said:
Be honest now. Tell us how many times you've seen Bigfoot on your treks into the woods?
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Ok All wise and all knowing readervol you got me again. You really should change your username to sheriffvol because it seems like whenever there's a post you don't agree with you pop up with your flashlight and badge. So now the floor is yours. We are all so ignorant and so beneath you. Please enlighten us with your knowledgeable post and your humorous jabs that you so cunningly come up with. Please tell us everything there is to know about the vols football. Please don't forget to leave a drop of wisdom out because it seems like if you don't teach us then we will never know and surely you don't want to be a part of an ignorant fan base do you?
 
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#823
#823
SURFSIDEBEACHVOL said:
You can believe what you want, but the reality is this was a 10-11 win team coached into 8 wins.
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you don't believe that CBJ has the team pointed in the right direction ? I also think that CBJ is learning to play in the SEC,which I know a lot of people don't want to hear ,but he is and doing a good job of it


could CBJ and the staff have pulled out another win this year ? probably,but the lack of seasoned depth has caused a lot of it too,the problems have been late in the 4th quarter,to me that looks like a lack of quality depth

and didn't the teams that they lost to,have more seasoned depth than the Vols ?
 
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