Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#226
#226
VFL-82-JP said:
Oh, I agree that a lot of sports sites and pre-season polls had Florida at or near the bottom.

But it's not revisionist history for DAJ: he was saying all along that Bama, Florida, and Georgia remain more talented than Team 119. Don't believe me, look up his post history. He wasn't predicting Florida would be at or near the bottom of the SEC. He wasn't fooled by the negative hype.

So when he says 100 other coaches could do it, based on statistical analysis, he's not doing revisionist anything. He's just telling it like it is.
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no you're supposed to say that FL being where they are now is the single greatest miracle since Jesus turned water in to wine
 
#227
#227
VFL-82-JP said:
Not even close, BJD.

You mention recruiting. But there was a LOT of bad blood between the program and many of the high school coaches we recruit from thanks to Dooley. All those relationships had to be repaired. And that took (is still taking) time.

You mention fan support. But look at these boards. Don't have to go any further than VolNation to see that this fan base is head shy of commitment to any coach right now, and ultra-sensitive to any perceived sign that the coach isn't committed to Tennessee in return. That takes time to repair as well.

I agree with you on facilities (one thing Dooley apparently devoted much time and attention to), and tradition (the one thing even Dooley and Kiffin couldn't kill).

There was (and is) a lot more to do than just recruit a new roster and gather up the Ws.
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Great post. Don't think a lot of fans really understand the damage that Dooley did with his recruiting tactics. He burned so many bridges with HS Coach's and we are still trying to recover from that. Now I don't think it should take 6-7 years to compete and very few Coach's will get that long to find out. With how much Coaching Salaries have escaladed they are in a win now or soon position or will be replaced by somebody who can. Especially as competitive we have been in every game and using the youth and depth excuse for last second losses. Bad coaching decisions and going conservative is what lost us the OU and UF games. We obviously have the talent to play with and beat anyone and hopefully Butch and his Coach's have learned from their mistakes. Next year the youth and depth excuses won't fly,they already aren't flying this year. I like Butch and want him to be here 15+ years but my biggest concern is does he have the assistant coach's to get us to the next level. QB,WR and DB coaching could stand to get some coaching upgrades. JMO
 
#229
#229
Coach 120 definitely made a baseless comment. Since the inaugural SEC Championship game in 1992:

1992: Gene Stallings (third year)
1993: Steve Spurrier (fourth year)
1994: Steve Spurrier (second title in his fifth year)
1995: Steve Spurrier (third title in his sixth year)
1996: Steve Spurrier (fourth in his seventh year)
1997: Phillip Fulmer (fifth full year)
1998: Phillip Fulmer (second title in his 6th full year)
1999: Mike Dubose (third year)
2000: Steve Spurrier (fifth title in his 11th year)
2001: Nick Saban (second year)
2002: Mark Richt (second year)
2003: Nick Saban (second title in fourth year)
2004: Tommy Tubberville (first title in his sixth year)
2005: Mark Richt (second title in his fifth year)
2006: Urban Meyer (first title in his second year)
2007: Les Miles (first title in his third year)
2008: Urban Meyer (second title in his fourth year)
2009: Nick Saban (first title in his third year)
2010: Gene Chizik (first title in his second year)
2011: Les Miles (second title in his seventh year)
2012: Nick Saban (second title in his sixth year)
2013: Gus Malzahn (first title in his second year)
2014: Nick Saban (third title in his eighth year)

You can come to one of three conclusions based on the statement. Either Tennessee's coach is completely delusional, Tennessee's coach is talking to some really uniformed people or Tennessee's coach is just making things up to have a built in excuse later on down the road.
 
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#231
#231
VFL-82-JP said:
Not even close, BJD.

You mention recruiting. But there was a LOT of bad blood between the program and many of the high school coaches we recruit from thanks to Dooley. All those relationships had to be repaired. And that took (is still taking) time.

.
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That's true. When has Jones struggled getting players here due to that? I thought most were in agreement he has done a solid job recruiting players with really nothing but early playing time to sell. To this point.
 
#234
#234
VOLINVONORE said:
Bunch of B. S.
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Right. It must be BS since the truth of it is very inconvenient to your blind faith.

Are you OK with a 6 or 7 year wait for "rebuilding"? Others have spun what Jones said... he left it somewhat ambiguous. But the claim that it won't be rebuilt by then certainly sounds like he's saying not to expect big things until then.

And as far as "BS" is concerned.... you can be sure that opposing recruiters will make a lot more creative use of that comment than I can imagine.
 
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#235
#235
TennesseeFan07 said:
1993: Steve Spurrier (second title in his fourth year)
1994: Steve Spurrier (third title in his fifth year)
1995: Steve Spurrier (fourth title in his sixth year)
1996: Steve Spurrier (fifth in his seventh year)
2000: Steve Spurrier (sixth title in his 11th year)
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Fixed

I know you started with the title games. But Spurrier won his first SEC title in '91, his second year.
 
#237
#237
VFL-82-JP said:
Not even close, BJD.

You mention recruiting. But there was a LOT of bad blood between the program and many of the high school coaches we recruit from thanks to Dooley. All those relationships had to be repaired. And that took (is still taking) time.

You mention fan support. But look at these boards. Don't have to go any further than VolNation to see that this fan base is head shy of commitment to any coach right now, and ultra-sensitive to any perceived sign that the coach isn't committed to Tennessee in return. That takes time to repair as well.

I agree with you on facilities (one thing Dooley apparently devoted much time and attention to), and tradition (the one thing even Dooley and Kiffin couldn't kill).

There was (and is) a lot more to do than just recruit a new roster and gather up the Ws.

p.s. You didn't mention finances. But that was broke, too, and is still in recovery.
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I said recruiting budget, what Dooley did with recruiting was a disgrace and I was called a negavol for wanting him removed.

Fan Support at a major football school is earned by the coach. Butch still has a majority of the fans supporting him at 4-4 in year three. Were you at the Oklahoma or UGA game? Is that not support? Big time programs do not keep poor performing coaches around(VolNation.com is the largest Tennessee Vols message board on the web with 11,783,651 posts and 63,428 members!)

Finances were bad due to the stadium renovation project. This football program is a cash cow, has been a cash cow and will continue to be one.
 
#238
#238
Perhaps Jones' statement was a direct plea to current recruits, suggesting that UT's return to national prominence would take place during their time in Knoxville.
 
#239
#239
TennesseeFan07 said:
You can come to one of three conclusions based on the statement. Either Tennessee's coach is completely delusional, Tennessee's coach is talking to some really uniformed people or Tennessee's coach is just making things up to have a built in excuse later on down the road.
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Or, you could be completely misunderstanding what the guy said.

Here's what he said: "it takes 6 or 7 years to build a program in the SEC."

Here's what he didn't say: "guys, we're not gonna win the East until year 6 or 7."

Here's another thing he didn't say: "folks, it'll be year 6 or 7 before we win in Atlanta in December."

Here's a third thing he did not say: "ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry but we can't compete for a national championship until I get all these broken pieces fixed in year 6 or 7."

A lot of folks on these boards are assuming he said one or more of those things.

He didn't say any of them.
 
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#240
#240
TennesseeFan07 said:
Coach 120 definitely made a baseless comment. Since the inaugural SEC Championship game in 1992:

1992: Gene Stallings (third year)
1993: Steve Spurrier (fourth year)
1994: Steve Spurrier (second title in his fifth year)
1995: Steve Spurrier (third title in his sixth year)
1996: Steve Spurrier (fourth in his seventh year)
1997: Phillip Fulmer (fifth full year)
1998: Phillip Fulmer (second title in his 6th full year)
1999: Mike Dubose (third year)
2000: Steve Spurrier (fifth title in his 11th year)
2001: Nick Saban (second year)
2002: Mark Richt (second year)
2003: Nick Saban (second title in fourth year)
2004: Tommy Tubberville (first title in his sixth year)
2005: Mark Richt (second title in his fifth year)
2006: Urban Meyer (first title in his second year)
2007: Les Miles (first title in his third year)
2008: Urban Meyer (second title in his fourth year)
2009: Nick Saban (first title in his third year)
2010: Gene Chizik (first title in his second year)
2011: Les Miles (second title in his seventh year)
2012: Nick Saban (second title in his sixth year)
2013: Gus Malzahn (first title in his second year)
2014: Nick Saban (third title in his eighth year)

You can come to one of three conclusions based on the statement. Either Tennessee's coach is completely delusional, Tennessee's coach is talking to some really uniformed people or Tennessee's coach is just making things up to have a built in excuse later on down the road.
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Or he literally said "rebuild the program" not "win games"

But you know, listening and reading are hard.
 
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#242
#242
VFL-82-JP said:
Or, you could be completely misunderstanding what the guy said.

Here's what he said: "it takes 6 or 7 years to build a program in the SEC."

Here's what he didn't say: "guys, we're not gonna win the East until year 6 or 7."

Here's another thing he didn't say: "folks, it'll be year 6 or 7 before we win in Atlanta in December."

Here's a third thing he did not say: "ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry but we can't compete for a national championship until I get all these broken pieces fixed in year 6 or 7."

A lot of folks on these boards are assuming he said one or more of those things.

He didn't say any of them.
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That just simply isn't true. Spurrier, Saban, Meyer, etc. all had multiple SEC Championship wins and by far had established elite programs by years six and seven. Heck, Gene Chizik won a title in his second year after he inherited a bad team, and Gus Malzahn picked up a team that was in as rough as shape as Tennessee's coach did and he won a title within two years.
 
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#243
#243
Butch sometimes needs to keep his thoughts inside his head. Charts, analytics, penalties, and now 6-7 years. Come on. One step forward and two steps back.
 
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#244
#244
VFL-82-JP said:
Or, you could be completely misunderstanding what the guy said.

Here's what he said: "it takes 6 or 7 years to build a program in the SEC."

Here's what he didn't say: "guys, we're not gonna win the East until year 6 or 7."

Here's another thing he didn't say: "folks, it'll be year 6 or 7 before we win in Atlanta in December."

Here's a third thing he did not say: "ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry but we can't compete for a national championship until I get all these broken pieces fixed in year 6 or 7."

A lot of folks on these boards are assuming he said one or more of those things.

He didn't say any of them.
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Is building a program figuring out the right chant or third down song? Is it a smokey gray helmet? What in the program needs to be built? Kentucky, MSU, USCe are programs that need built. This proagram just needs a caretaker. The comment he made was not necessary and about as bad as Kiffin showing recruits and players USC highlights.
 
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#245
#245
VFL-82-JP said:
You are completely missing DAJ's point.

Sure McElwain looks genius right now. So would 100 other coaches dropped into the spot instead of him.

Including some of the ones you cross off so flippantly.

Not taking anything away from Jim. He's a good guy, it seems. But he stepped into a pretty good situation, offensive line troubles aside. He's not unique in being able to capitalize on it. Far from it. Statistically, 5 out of every 6 other coaches could do the same.

That's what DAJ is saying. Think he's right.
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Mac stepped in a turd pile.

The base defense has been a nickel because we dont have enough linebackers.

If i said before the season Florida would have double digit wins, people would have wanted the name of my dealer so they could get their hands on the good stuff
 
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#246
#246
casetopia said:
no you're supposed to say that FL being where they are now is the single greatest miracle since Jesus turned water in to wine
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Florida has talent and had it under Muschamp. Recruiting hasn't been the problem just like it hasn't been with GA. It was incompetent coaching. UF has elite talent on D and has some really good offensive players. They just needed the right coaching. And GA I don't know why they aren't winning. They have as much talent as anybody.
 
#249
#249
VFL-82-JP said:
Or, you could be completely misunderstanding what the guy said.

Here's what he said: "it takes 6 or 7 years to build a program in the SEC."

Here's what he didn't say: "guys, we're not gonna win the East until year 6 or 7."

Here's another thing he didn't say: "folks, it'll be year 6 or 7 before we win in Atlanta in December."

Here's a third thing he did not say: "ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry but we can't compete for a national championship until I get all these broken pieces fixed in year 6 or 7."

A lot of folks on these boards are assuming he said one or more of those things.

He didn't say any of them.
Click to expand...

Checkmate. :good!:
 
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