Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#1,751
#1,751
utvolpj said:
His pay is right in the middle where it should be. Yes, of he wins a NC he will get a nice raise. That's kinda the way things work

The rest of your post is bad and you should feel bad
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No bonuses is how it works. In any industry where you deliver tangible, measurable results you're paid a commission or bonus for delivering above previous results. You get paid a base salary to perform the basic, daily functions of your job. That doesn't and shouldn't necessarily increase just because you had a good year. If my employer bumped my pay by $10-20k because I had good sales year and then I don't proceed to grow/improve the business anymore they're not getting their return.

If Butch wins 10-12 next year and gets bumped up to say $5m and then proceeds to avg 8 wins for the next 3 years is that worth the $5m we'd be paying him? I'd argue emphatically, no. You pay him $4m and give him bonuses for reaching said "milestones". Perhaps the amount of those bonuses increase over time. Win the SEC next year, get $100k. Win it in 2017, get $150k. Don't reach the SECCG, get $0 and his base salary of $4m.
 
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#1,752
#1,752
roddo518 said:
He said it will take 6 to 7 years to get the kind of depth in the program to compete for national championships.imo You can get lucky here and there with a nc, but he is talking about being in the mix year in and year out. With that being said, you still need to get a little luck during any season to win a nc even with a dominant team. Just look at the participants this year if you have any doubts. All the teams had some luck. Our worst team in the conference just scared the overall number one and undefeated team. CBJ is on the right track in that respect. Just keep throwing talent at the problem and wait for a season to remember thru the ages. The people that belittles the progress being made just dont understand the complexities involved in achieving greatness in football. Now, is Jones the guy that will win multiple NCs? I don't know, but history has proven the ones that do, stockpile talent year after year after year. CBJ has been great at that so far. You never want to go into a gun fight with a cap gun.
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How's that the case when Saban was in the mix in year 2 and ever since at Bama? In year 2 at LSU he was winning the SEC and year 4 he was in the title game?

Urban's story is the same, as is Stoops' and Tressel's and Richt's.
 
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#1,753
#1,753
bowlinggreenvol said:
How's that the case when Saban was in the mix in year 2 and ever since at Bama? In year 3 at LSU he was winning the SEC and year 4 he was in the title game?

Urban's story is the same, as is Stoops' and Tressel's and Richt's.
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Actually Saban won the SEC in his second year in Baton Rouge.
 
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#1,755
#1,755
I'm pretty sure the '13 win over S. Carolina was predicted by daj...based on his stats. We assign it as over-achieving but according to avg. recruiting rankings, it wasn't.

UGA from this season is the only one that comes to mind, but not by much. The rankings were close.
 
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#1,756
#1,756
bowlinggreenvol said:
How's that the case when Saban was in the mix in year 2 and ever since at Bama? In year 2 at LSU he was winning the SEC and year 4 he was in the title game?

Urban's story is the same, as is Stoops' and Tressel's and Richt's.
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It's because UT's situation is the worst in NCAA history. Always has been, always will be. Where have you been?
 
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#1,758
#1,758
bowlinggreenvol said:
No bonuses is how it works. In any industry where you deliver tangible, measurable results you're paid a commission or bonus for delivering above previous results. You get paid a base salary to perform the basic, daily functions of your job. That doesn't and shouldn't necessarily increase just because you had a good year. If my employer bumped my pay by $10-20k because I had good sales year and then I don't proceed to grow/improve the business anymore they're not getting their return.

If Butch wins 10-12 next year and gets bumped up to say $5m and then proceeds to avg 8 wins for the next 3 years is that worth the $5m we'd be paying him? I'd argue emphatically, no. You pay him $4m and give him bonuses for reaching said "milestones". Perhaps the amount of those bonuses increase over time. Win the SEC next year, get $100k. Win it in 2017, get $150k. Don't reach the SECCG, get $0 and his base salary of $4m.
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If you haven't noticed, coaching doesn't follow that formula. But you knew that didn't you. Coaching is an outlier profession. Les Miles got raises to stay around BR even though he was not winning championships. With a finite amount of capable coaches, you keep capable and decent coaches. Not restrict their pay and make your University unattractive to future coaches.
 
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#1,759
#1,759
BigOrangeTrain said:
Good God, this is still going? So I guess everything Butch says should be taken literally? Wow.
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A select few of Butch haters want confirmation of their hatred for Butch. It's sad actually. They complain about press conferences, complain about practice on Christmas, complain about anything Butch. Just wait until we win and get a bowl ring. They will go ape $#!+ crazy.
 
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#1,761
#1,761
titansvolsfaninga said:
A select few of Butch haters want confirmation of their hatred for Butch. It's sad actually. They complain about press conferences, complain about practice on Christmas, complain about anything Butch. Just wait until we win and get a bowl ring. They will go ape $#!+ crazy.
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A bowl ring lol
 
#1,762
#1,762
Boca Vol said:
I'm pretty sure the '13 win over S. Carolina was predicted by daj...based on his stats. We assign it as over-achieving but according to avg. recruiting rankings, it wasn't.

UGA from this season is the only one that comes to mind, but not by much. The rankings were close.
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Here is the thing I keep repeating.

At UT he has had a -2, -2 and -1 net performance in relation to talent. It's true that the only team with a higher recruiting average since arriving at UT is UGA this year.

But, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Butch has a significant career positive net performance. It's unusual to sustain that level of over performance even given the tier of his previous stops.

His performance at UT is within a standard deviation from expectations.

That's about at Saban's performance over the same time, or Miles, or Richt or Spurrier. I believe its slightly better than Sumlin, it's definitely better than Malzahn's and far better than Muschamp's.

It's better than any three year period at UT going back about a decade.

They key for any coach at UT is to stay within a SD of expectations, and to increase talent averages relative to your competition. So far, Butch has accomplished those goals. Trends in recruiting, real wins, and point differentials against common opponents, are all positive.

Brace yourselves because next season actually looks to have a harder schedule. While I can't say for sure until NSD, UT will likely be looking at playing *4* teams (only 3 in 2015) with a better four year recruiting average (Bama/UGA/UF/ATM). I actually believe that we could expect to see a W for 2-3 of those, but the numbers say no.

That means that the regular season record could be 8 wins, and actually be an improvement in wins against expectations.
 
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#1,763
#1,763
Isn't it a little tenuous to be married to recruiting results with coaching changes and attrition going on all over the place?
 
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#1,764
#1,764
GAVol said:
Isn't it a little tenuous to be married to recruiting results with coaching changes and attrition going on all over the place?
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Regardless of coach, location, weather, size of crowd, attrition, moon cycle, who Corso picks, whether you wear your lucky socks to the game, or the color of Gruden's tie, power 5 teams with a higher 4 year recruiting average win the game 70% of the time.

In championship games, the number skyrockets with only 1 team since 2005 winning a championship with a worse 4 year recruiting average. That lone exception was Texas in 2005.
 
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#1,767
#1,767
ReaderVol said:
But schedule is the big monkey wrench.
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Exactly. You need to have a schedule where you have a better four year average than your opponents.

See:Bama, FSU, Ohio State, Auburn. If memory serves, only one of those won a championship with a regular season where they played any teams with a better average.
 
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#1,768
#1,768
ReaderVol said:
Proof y'all. Cannot be happy about anything Butch or UT related. Some of the same who bash Butch and UT were the first to proclaim Peyton guilty right from the start. They are what they are.
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Wait a minute, are you telling me that there are people on this board who said Peyton is guilty? For real?
 
#1,771
#1,771
titansvolsfaninga said:
If you haven't noticed, coaching doesn't follow that formula. But you knew that didn't you. Coaching is an outlier profession. Les Miles got raises to stay around BR even though he was not winning championships. With a finite amount of capable coaches, you keep capable and decent coaches. Not restrict their pay and make your University unattractive to future coaches.
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Les has played for 3 SEC titles and 2 NC and would likely land a P5 job the day after he was fired i.e. Mark Richt. You pay to keep someone from stealing Les, like Michigan in 2007. No one is trying to steal Butch at this point.
 
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#1,772
#1,772
ReaderVol said:
Proof y'all. Cannot be happy about anything Butch or UT related. Some of the same who bash Butch and UT were the first to proclaim Peyton guilty right from the start. They are what they are.
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I think bragging about bowl "rings" is the same as talking about SEC East "championships." That has nothing to do with the coach. I think Cutcliffe is a good coach, but if someone tried to tell me he's now a better one because of the "bowl ring" he got for beating Indiana, I'd call it stupid. The vast majority of bowls don't really mean anything.

I didn't see anyone proclaiming Peyton's guilt, so either you saw something I didn't or you're making idiotic assumptions as usual.
 
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#1,773
#1,773
bowlinggreenvol said:
Les has played for 3 SEC titles and 2 NC and would likely land a P5 job the day after he was fired i.e. Mark Richt. You pay to keep someone from stealing Les, like Michigan in 2007. No one is trying to steal Butch at this point.
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As I stated, there are a finite number of coaches. You pay to keep capable and competent coaches. You don't restrict pay and make your University unattractive to other coaches.

There are other Universities that see what CBJ has done here, and would love to have him.
 
#1,774
#1,774
VKAman said:
Also, this conversation started with the question of which games we've won that we shouldn't have won in Butch's tenure, which--still--no one has answered.
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until this year, how many games did we really have a chance at winning that we shouldn't? i mean, really, it's kind of a silly notion to look at a program that went 5-7 3 or 4 years in a row, then 6-6, and start talking about 'who we should have beat'. you could make an argument that a program like that, has a lot of opportunities to win games they shouldn't. Vandy beat us 2 of 3 years, so 2014 Vandy....could fall in that category....

seriously though, it's not like this team only has 1 or 2 dragons to slay before they're a title contender year in and year out. this team had to PROVE they could be Vandy, KY, MO, USC...the teams they were "supposed to beat"...because until the last two years, they hadn't even done that. so saying Butch hasn't won enough games he shouldn't have, eh, it's a sliding scale. year one, there were a lot of those opportunities. in year 4, there won't be but a couple.

i think you go back to GA game 2013, that was the game that you could see it happening. that game got validated in the USC game.

in 2014, i don't know that you could say we won any games we shouldn't have, based no rankings, records etc....that said, the USC game was once again the game that kind of validated the season, and how we ended it.

this year, i think the only one that would qualify was the GA game, especially considering we were down 24-3.

in the end, it's not really a suprise that we haven't beaten the top teams in the conf, because we haven't been anywhere near being a top team in the conference.

Butch has 3 signature wins as far as i'm concerned....'13 USC, '14 Bowl game, and '15 UGA, could have another if we beat NW on Friday.
 
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#1,775
#1,775
VKAman said:
I think bragging about bowl "rings" is the same as talking about SEC East "championships." That has nothing to do with the coach. I think Cutcliffe is a good coach, but if someone tried to tell me he's now a better one because of the "bowl ring" he got for beating Indiana, I'd call it stupid. The vast majority of bowls don't really mean anything.

I didn't see anyone proclaiming Peyton's guilt, so either you saw something I didn't or you're making idiotic assumptions as usual.
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i don't think anyone will confuse winning a bowl game, not in the play off, is achieving anything in regards to a championship.

that said, winning a post season game for the coaches, and players does validate their season. and there's no reason why a team, or fan base, shouldn't be proud of winning. period.

not every team, every year has the same aspirations as the next. Duke wasn't going to the play off. but DUke hasn't won a bowl since the 60's.

so they should be proud, CDC should be happy he was able to do that for that program, and they should hang a banner or get a ring or whatever floats their boat.

and don't get me started on winning the division. you can't do anything for real in the post season if you don't win the division, so yes, that's an accomplishment.

jeez.
 
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