Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#602
#602
VFL-82-JP said:
I wouldn't, KB. Not because I have any false illusions that Butch is a better coach than all of them, but because I believe in commitment and loyalty.

Before we ever hired Butch, they might any of them have been better options (one exception; I'll hit that in a sec). One day when Jones is gone, they might be great options (if they're still coaching).

But today, today we've got a head coach. And I'm gonna back him 100% as long as he's working his azz off for us, is doing it the right way with integrity and focus on the players, and is taking us the right direction.

Commitment and loyalty have to go two ways. Folks want to see Butch's loyalty when job openings like Va Tech come up. But some are not willing to give loyalty in return. That is hypocrisy, which is antithetical to the values I hold dear.

Oh yeah, the exception: Meyer. Don't respect his values, not one bit. He's a brilliant coach, horrible person. Wouldn't want him even if it were a 100% lock to win championships with him.



Jake, I know you asked KB, not me, but I'll toss my $.02 in: hell no. Same reason as for Meyer, above. No values, do not want. Not worth it, even if championships were guaranteed.
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You think Saban got where he is today from not being an a**hole? Screw morals to a certain extent, I'll take a d***head coach like Saban if it works to get the team pumped and winning championships.
 
#605
#605
volunteerfan said:
Hey vfl-82-jp, butch really showed his loyalty when he leveraged other job openings to get a contract extension
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How much do you know about how that played out, Fan?

Can you talk us through how it evolved? Or are you just seeing (a) job openings and (b) Butch got an extension and then assuming (y) the extension was because of the risk of losing him to those openings, and (z) Butch did anything other than let his agent be a good agent and work for raises and extensions where possible?

How much do you know about how it played out?
 
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#606
#606
VFL-82-JP said:
How much do you know about how that played out, Fan?

Can you talk us through how it evolved? Or are you just seeing (a) job openings and (b) Butch got an extension and then assuming (y) the extension was because of the risk of losing him to those openings, and (z) Butch did anything other than let his agent be a good agent and work for raises and extensions where possible?

How much do you know about how it played out?
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He read about it on here. :geek:
 
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#608
#608
checkerboards09 said:
You think Saban got where he is today from not being an a**hole? Screw morals to a certain extent, I'll take a d***head coach like Saban if it works to get the team pumped and winning championships.
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No, never "screw morals." If you can't win the right way, it's not worth winning.

I'm not talking about being a "nice person". You can be gruff, or taciturn, or out-right antisocial (though, given the extent to which coaching is a leadership job, not sure how far you'd get with the latter).

But sacrificing principles, or not having any in the first place, that's a whole 'nother animal.

Saban's a jerk, supposedly. Sure. But he's reportedly an honest, fair, committed, and loyal jerk. And that makes all the difference. Can't say any of those positive things about Kiffin, nor reportedly about Meyer.
 
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#611
#611
PowerSweep said:
that hardly matters...bama was a mess under shula, and obviously why he was fired..saban comes in goes 26-2 with a nat'l title his first 2 yrs..if my point is wrong, again I will ask..where are the successful coaches at traditional powrs like tennessee that didnt win big by yr 2-3?
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I'm confused. How to he go 26-2 in his first two years when he was 6-6 in his first season?
 
#612
#612
VFL-82-JP said:
No, never "screw morals." If you can't win the right way, it's not worth winning.

I'm not talking about being a "nice person". You can be gruff, or taciturn, or out-right antisocial (though, given the extent to which coaching is a leadership job, not sure how far you'd get with the latter).

But sacrificing principles, or not having any in the first place, that's a whole 'nother animal.

Saban's a jerk, supposedly. Sure. But he's reportedly an honest, fair, committed, and loyal jerk. And that makes all the difference. Can't say any of those positive things about Kiffin, nor reportedly about Meyer.
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Your almost right, Saban is loyal to the big stack of money. Ask the Dolphins.
 
#613
#613
butchna said:
You're just getting silly and petty now. :no:
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How am I being silly? You tell me how loyal butch jones is and I tell you he's just like every other coach that you mentioned that isn't loyal. Did he get an extension because of what he had done on the field or because the AD was scared he might lose him to another school. Kudos to butch for pimping the game but don't try to tell me he's loyal when all I see is a hustler.
 
#614
#614
volunteerfan said:
Kudos to butch for pimping the game but don't try to tell me he's loyal when all I see is a hustler.
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Time to put up or shut up. You may be seeing very little, at all, and coming to hugely wrong conclusions.

How much do you know about how it played out?
 
#618
#618
VFL-82-JP said:
Time to put up or shut up. You may be seeing very little, at all, and coming to hugely wrong conclusions.

How much do you know about how it played out?
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So now that I don't know every little intricate detail of the extension butch jones got I shouldn't bring it up? Are you telling me you know how it played out?
 
#620
#620
BeecherVol said:
Exactly.

Saban is an azz as well. I doubt Bama is wanting to trade that out.
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The reason Saban or harbaugh can be butt holes to the media and not kiss azz is because they are proven winners and they are irreplaceable coaches. They don't need a sales pitch because the results on the field speak for them
 
#621
#621
Lawrence Wright said:
Not sure if serious.

What coach with an agent worth a damn doesn't do this?
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#622
#622
volunteerfan said:
The reason Saban or harbaugh can be butt holes to the media and not kiss azz is because they are proven winners and they are irreplaceable coaches. They don't need a sales pitch because the results on the field speak for them
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Thats all true.
 
#623
#623
jakez4ut said:
all Harbaugh has done is win where ever he goes.

he takes Stanford to Rose bowls. 49ers to the Super bowl.

that doesn't suck. that fits.
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Fit matters a lot. History is littered with coache who did great at some places and failed at others. Fit is a key component.
 
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#625
#625
jakez4ut said:
i agree.
let me as you this........would you take Kiffin back, hypothetically of course? and before the gut reaction hits, stop and think about it for a second...
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No, I personally would not want Kiffin back under any circumstance. Prefer Jones by a country mile. I'm considering Kiffin's behavior here, his attempt to whitewash our traditions and turn UT into USC east, his recruiting which was atrocious given the character of the players he signed and the ultimate attrition of his one class and how dirty he was in running the program with regards to NCAA compliance. Was Kiffin a better gameday coach than Jones?...yes, absolutely IMHO. But is Jones considerably better in literally every other facet? Yes and it's not even close.
 
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