Butch deserves NO Raise and NO extension

#551
#551
Can Jones coach a team to a win in a national title game or an SEC championship game? I love the guy but nothing this season has shown me he can. I hope this is just part of the process.
 
#552
#552
DC Vol said:
He lost every meaningful game we played except UGA.

National perception of that UGA win is so bad that they aren't ranked at 9-3 and they fired their coach for losing to us.

National opinion of Butch is depressingly opposite of the banner wavers here.
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Correct on all counts.
 
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#553
#553
Thunder Good-Oil said:
There's not a whole lot of room to improve from here. "Improving" has been low hanging fruit considering how far the bar had been lowered. Now is the time to see what Butch really can do. I'm running out of metaphors.
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Low hanging fruit, eh?

Consider this:

Since 2002 (that's 14 football seasons to me and you), UT has only won 5 or more SEC games 5 times before this year, and not once since 2007. Only two teams in that span have done better than 5.

That "low hanging fruit" has been mostly out of reach for this program for almost a decade and a half.

The bar wasn't lowered, we were (and largely by people who had no idea how to set reasonable expectations. see-this thread for example).
 
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#554
#554
daj2576 said:
Low hanging fruit, eh?

Consider this:

Since 2002 (thats 13 years to me and you), UT has only won 5 or more SEC games 5 times before this year, and not once since 2007. Only two teams in that span have done better than 5.

That "low hanging fruit" has been mostly out of reach for this program for almost a decade and a half.
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To be fair he issued "low hanging fruit" after he catched a Cirque Du Soleil performance on that goldanged picture box. :crazy:
 
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#556
#556
daj2576 said:
Low hanging fruit, eh?

Consider this:

Since 2002 (thats 13 years to me and you), UT has only won 5 or more SEC games 5 times before this year, and not once since 2007. Only two teams in that span have done better than 5.

That "low hanging fruit" has been mostly out of reach for this program for almost a decade and a half.
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So how much improvement is possible from here? Seems like this year is the historic middle... there won't be a lot of room to prove on the W-Ls from this level. Is this the new base for a .650 program and you're going to call for Butch or any other coach to be fired that slips back below it? SEC championships and NCs can be improvements, but then what? If improvement is the way to grade the coach what happens if they reach the top in any one year? I guess that is what happened to Fulmer... Nattys didn't pile up and the SEC became more competitive so it was time for Kiffin and Dooley.
 
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#557
#557
Thunder Good-Oil said:
So how much improvement is possible from here? Seems like this year is the historic middle... there won't be a lot of room to prove on the W-Ls from this level. Is this the new base for a .650 program and you're going to call for Butch or any other coach to be fired that slips back below it? SEC championships and NCs can be improvements, but then what? If improvement is the way to grade the coach what happens if they reach the top in any one year? I guess that is what happened to Fulmer... Nattys didn't pile up and the SEC became more competitive so it was time for Kiffin and Dooley.
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I'm not sure what you are arguing, either for or against.

Make a point, and defend it, but quit asking me to make your points for you.
 
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#558
#558
StevenWilliamsSCD said:
Can Jones coach a team to a win in a national title game or an SEC championship game? I love the guy but nothing this season has shown me he can. I hope this is just part of the process.
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I agree with you. We beat the teams we were supposed to and botched the possible loses before the season. They pared the course with a few missed opportunities. Nothing I see deserves raise unless it's to upgrade staff
 
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#559
#559
daj2576 said:
I'm not sure what you are arguing, either for or against.

Make a point, and defend it, but quit asking me to make your points for you.
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A reasonable increase in salary w/ additional incentives added, etc. Yes.

Go all in Mike Hamilton style with an absurd contract extension and the golden parachute clause....No.
 
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#562
#562
daj2576 said:
I'm not sure what you are arguing, either for or against.

Make a point, and defend it, but quit asking me to make your points for you.
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Points are that Butch hasn't really rocked the world by simply putting 7 loss seasons in the rear view mirror. As far as a raise, this is kind of what he was expected to do at his current pay grade. I first jumped in suggesting that compensation ought to be primarily performance based... and 8-4 doesn't really warrant a big bump... he's already at nearly $4,000,000 annually and is barely over .500.

Another point is that if he's able to "improve" from here, are the trolls, Nega-vols, and Jethro fans that are expecting better than the historical average every year going to call for his firing when it's impossible to sustain year over year improvement EVERY year. I'd rather cut him some slack on the inevitable, occasional regression and hope for sustained winning with an occasional championship thrown in.

The winningest program in all of college football is only a bit over 75% which is 9 wins out of 12 games.
 
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#564
#564
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Points are that Butch hasn't really rocked the world by simply putting 7 loss seasons in the rear view mirror. As far as a raise, this is kind of what he was expected to do at his current pay grade. I first jumped in suggesting that compensation ought to be primarily performance based... and 8-4 doesn't really warrant a big bump... he's already at nearly $4,000,000 annually and is barely over .500.

Another point is that if he's able to "improve" from here, are the trolls, Nega-vols, and Jethro fans that are expecting better than the historical average every year going to call for his firing when it's impossible to sustain year over year improvement EVERY year. I'd rather cut him some slack on the inevitable, occasional regression and hope for sustained winning with an occasional championship thrown in.

The winningest program in all of college football is only a bit over 75% which is 9 wins out of 12 games.
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The way I see it, to discuss with reason where you stand, you have to fully grasp where you have come from.

If I was an olympian 20 years ago, but got in a car wreck 10 years ago and had to learn to walk again, do you judge where I am now based on where I was at my best, or where I just was? I think many people who make the point that you make are forgetting the defining car wreck, while over emphasizing the "good old days".

I'm not suggesting that the bar is simply not losing 7 games. The bar at this point has been to walk again, then jog, then run (improve recruiting, wins, etc). We're travelling along that arc nicely. At some point in the not too distant future, assuming continued improvement, the bar changes from building to sustaining. Then, it will be time to look at the current landscape and decide what is acceptable. Competing for the SEC east every year should be part of that sustained bar, but the idea that winning championships every year is obtainable is asinine.
 
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#565
#565
daj2576 said:
The way I see it, to discuss with reason where you stand, you have to fully grasp where you have come from.

If I was an olympian 20 years ago, but got in a car wreck 10 years ago and had to learn to walk again, do you judge where I am now based on where I was at my best, or where I just was? I think many people who make the point that you make are forgetting the defining car wreck, while over emphasizing the "good old days".

I'm not suggesting that the bar is simply not losing 7 games. The bar at this point has been to walk again, then jog, then run (improve recruiting, wins, etc). We're travelling along that arc nicely. At some point in the not too distant future, assuming continued improvement, the bar changes from building to sustaining. Then, it will be time to look at the current landscape and decide what is acceptable. Competing for the SEC east every year should be part of that sustained bar, but the idea that winning championships every year is obtainable is asinine.
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There is no shortage of vocal "fans" expecting the asinine results. Butch has obtained the historical equilibrium in year three. If TN is 9-3 next year the majority of posters will be in off with his head mentality. I'm happy to avoid anything resembling 2008 through about 2013 or 2014.
 
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#566
#566
Again, what would a raise or extension accomplish? Why couldn't we wait and see how he does next year?
 
#567
#567
tvolsfan said:
Again, what would a raise or extension accomplish? Why couldn't we wait and see how he does next year?
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All of the turnover is creating an issue. Mediocre coaches are getting multi-millions annually. TN has facilities and resources to accompany the deal though. It would be ridiculous to give even more to Butch. On the other hand he has considerable leverage in the short term if he elects to play that game.

Much of the UT fan base is damaged by the revolving door. On the other other hand, much of the fan base has been conditioned to it and think that a new coach every couple of years is the normal operating procedure.
 
#568
#568
Good thing you aren't running the AD. He's getting both.

The Scoop

Tennessee: Sources tell FootballScoop that the Tennessee administration is preparing another extension / raise for Butch Jones.
 
#570
#570
Anyone who thinks Butch is not doing a good job and needs to be fired or not given any raise or extension was not at that game Saturday. The Vols are a different team now. They don't struggle with Vandy, Mizzou, and Kentucky anymore, they beat them handily. They aren't losing by 21 to Alabama. They beat Georgia. This team had missteps 100%. But this was the first season the Vols really believed they are winners, and it shows. After the Arkansas game they could have rolled over and died, but they didn't. They beat GA and took Bama to the wire in Tuscaloosa. You know for a fact that Alabama fans are suddenly more aware to Tennessee then they have been in years.

2016 is going to be a big year of expectations for sure, and hopefully the team does deliver on those expectations. But as of right now this team is right on track, and I am proud to be a Vols fan in the first time in a long time. Fall 2016 is my last semester at UT and i'm more excited than ever before.

The fact that we even have these expectations is proof enough that this team is going places
 
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#571
#571
griffdog14 said:
Anyone who thinks Butch is not doing a good job and needs to be fired or not given any raise or extension was not at that game Saturday. The Vols are a different team now. They don't struggle with Vandy, Mizzou, and Kentucky anymore, they beat them handily. They aren't losing by 21 to Alabama. They beat Georgia. This team had missteps 100%. But this was the first season the Vols really believed they are winners, and it shows. After the Arkansas game they could have rolled over and died, but they didn't. They beat GA and took Bama to the wire in Tuscaloosa. You know for a fact that Alabama fans are suddenly more aware to Tennessee then they have been in years.

2016 is going to be a big year of expectations for sure, and hopefully the team does deliver on those expectations. But as of right now this team is right on track, and I am proud to be a Vols fan in the first time in a long time. Fall 2016 is my last semester at UT and i'm more excited than ever before.

The fact that we even have these expectations is proof enough that this team is going places
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Read your email....Georgia does not count. I've always been proud to be a VOL fan.
 
#572
#572
titansvolsfaninga said:
Read your email....Georgia does not count. I've always been proud to be a VOL fan.
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yeah sure lets just make this a pissing contest of "oh ive ALWAYS been proud to be a VOL fan." Of course we're all proud to be vols, I wear the power T in some form pretty much every day wherever i'm at. But this year it feels good to be a vol fan, and I don't have to take crap from others about having an awful team

but you already knew that. you're just looking to pat yourself on the back.
 
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#573
#573
And Butch is now getting BOTH a raise AND an extension. Good thread! :lol:
 
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#574
#574
griffdog14 said:
yeah sure lets just make this a pissing contest of "oh ive ALWAYS been proud to be a VOL fan." Of course we're all proud to be vols, I wear the power T in some form pretty much every day wherever i'm at. But this year it feels good to be a vol fan, and I don't have to take crap from others about having an awful team

but you already knew that. you're just looking to pat yourself on the back.
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Do you want to meet at the Waffle House too?!
 
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