Butch and Dobbs

#377
#377
sjt18 said:
.
Click to expand...

You have been reduced to repeating lies and empty denial.

You have not demonstrated a single lie from me - and you can't. Your claim is just another lie. I have demonstrated specific actual lies from you that you cannot refute.

You have yet to demonstrate a single flaw in anything I argued. Every time you try, you lose on the facts or embarrass yourself by factually misrepresenting my arguments. If you had an actual defeator to my arguments, you wouldn't need to lie, twist, spin and distract with empty noise.

But hey, your cheerleaders who lost on the merits rave you up for doing their bidding. KBVol hides when caught red-handed lying about what I argued and proven dead wrong. He knows he got caught again. You just keep BS'ing and making noise to distract and drown out what happened.

I see you've changed your tune towards Peterman for the audience. Of course, I know your new attitude is insincere and completely at odds with the harsh words and trash you were spewing that put you on the radar.
 
#380
#380
Did you guys really spend the last 3 days arguing who was the better player in practice? Practices that none of us got to watch and reporters only got to see a few minutes? And what was the purpose of all of this debate on a subject that none of us could answer for certainty? (Other than the obvious which is to spend time with other Vol fans waiting for the next game of course.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#381
#381
YorkVol said:
Did you guys really spend the last 3 days arguing who was the better player in practice? Practices that none of us got to watch and reporters only got to see a few minutes? And what was the purpose of all of this debate on a subject that none of us could answer for certainty? (Other than the obvious which is to spend time with other Vol fans waiting for the next game of course.)
Click to expand...

No, that's not the argument at all. I just spent a few minutes each day trying to keep four dishonest Peterman bashers honest and on point. They lost the arguments, so they obfuscated the arguments, misrepresented my position and deflected into the weeds hoping nobody will recognize what was actually debated.
It worked on you.
 
#384
#384
American Pig said:
No, that's not the argument at all. I just spent a few minutes each day trying to keep FOUR DISHONEST PETERMAN BASHERS honest and on point. They lost the arguments, so they obfuscated the arguments, misrepresented my position and deflected into the weeds hoping nobody will recognize what was actually debated.
It worked on you.
Click to expand...

So KB...sjt?....who are the other two liars? :question:
 
#385
#385
butchna said:
So KB...sjt?....who are the other two liars? :question:
Click to expand...

Only 4? Hell, there's been about 25-30 of us on and off going at the freaking idiot for a couple weeks now. I finally put the fool on ignore last week and haven't responded to any of his idiocy for awhile now, but I'll gladly wear that badge of honor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#386
#386
he just screams liar at everything, its beating a dead horse. I tried but he doesnt respond like a regular human being, he doesnt have any good reasoning. Can you imagine working with this dude in the workplace and simply creating conversation. or sitting next to him at a Vols game :thud:
I'd be applying in another department thats for sure..He's got to be a stay at home single dad thats broke over child support and mad about it or something. Hes a joker! I thought SJT was bad until we started getting along and having good healthy football debates, this guy is about as bad at talking football as Peterman is at playing... Go play your xbox kid, you should be able to give all the playing time to Peterman you want on the NCAA game! If you DWELL on the past, you'll live with no future!


American Pig is defined online as: Many businesspersons and sportsmen out there possess the Choleric personality. Your negative traits can also affect you such as being bossy, impatient, can’t relax, quick tempered, enjoys arguments or controversies, unsympathetic, and too impetuous.
 
Last edited:
#388
#388
American Pig, I have refrained from engaging in the minutiae of this particular debate because, quite frankly, I don't care. However, I would like to offer two observations for your consideration:

(1) You are, for the most part, dealing with fellow Vol fans on this forum. Although you may never change the opinions of those with whom you profoundly disagree, you would at least be regarded with a smidgen more respect if you ceased and desisted from calling virtually everyone who disagrees with you a "liar." Please save that level of vitriol for disrespectful Alabama, Florida fans etc. who wander into our cyber territory.

(2) I am certain that you will disagree with this observation, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes "fact." You have engaged in drawing inferences on this topic from the limited data to which we all have access. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, but the conclusions which we reach under those circumstances are ultimately interpretations based on limited data. None of us are privy to Butch Jones' innermost thoughts on this topic, the communications which he has had on the matter with Josh, his parents or the coaching staff. There have been very few direct quotes on the subject which could be described as reliable primary source data.

If that didn't make a dent, and I presume that it didn't, let's consult some third-party resources (i.e.online dictionaries) for definitions of what constitutes "fact":

"Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact" (from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition).

"A real state of things, as distinguished from a statement or belief; that in the real world agreement or disagreement with which makes a proposition true or false" (from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia).

"a concept whose truth can be proved" (from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University).

"an event known to have happened or something known to have existed" (from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University). All definitions are cited from https://www.wordnik.com/words/fact.

Please note the emphasis upon events, attributes or information, the reality or truth of which can be verified, proven, documented or demonstrated. I understand that it is your belief that the arguments which you advance are facts, but, by these definitions, they simply aren't.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#389
#389
Volosaurus rex said:
American Pig, I have refrained from engaging in the minutiae of this particular debate because, quite frankly, I don't care. However, I would like to offer two observations for your consideration:

(1) You are, for the most part, dealing with fellow Vol fans on this forum. Although you may never change the opinions of those with whom you profoundly disagree, you would at least be regarded with a smidgen more respect if you ceased and desisted from calling virtually everyone who disagrees with you a "liar." Please save that level of vitriol for disrespectful Alabama, Florida fans etc. who wander into our cyber territory.

(2) I am certain that you will disagree with this observation, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes "fact." You have engaged in drawing inferences on this topic from the limited data to which we all have access. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, but the conclusions which we reach under those circumstances are ultimately interpretations based on limited data. None of us are privy to Butch Jones' innermost thoughts on this topic, the communications which he has had on the matter with Josh, his parents or the coaching staff. There have been very few direct quotes on the subject which could be described as reliable primary source data.

If that didn't make a dent, and I presume that it didn't, let's consult some third-party resources (i.e.online dictionaries) for definitions of what constitutes "fact":

"Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact" (from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition).

"A real state of things, as distinguished from a statement or belief; that in the real world agreement or disagreement with which makes a proposition true or false" (from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia).

"a concept whose truth can be proved" (from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University).

"an event known to have happened or something known to have existed" (from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University). All definitions are cited from https://www.wordnik.com/words/fact.

Please note the emphasis upon events, attributes or information the reality or truth of which can be verified, proven, documented or demonstrated. I understand that it is your belief that the arguments which you advance are facts, but, by these definitions, they simply aren't.
Click to expand...

Quit lying...you have been vanquished...




Spanky. :yu:
 
#391
#391
KBVol said:
Only 4? Hell, there's been about 25-30 of us on and off going at the freaking idiot for a couple weeks now. I finally put the fool on ignore last week and haven't responded to any of his idiocy for awhile now, but I'll gladly wear that badge of honor.
Click to expand...


Yep, about 4 - and you are chief among them. You stop responding every time you get caught red-handed in lies and CAN'T answer.

For an idiot claiming to ignore me, you sure do follow along and respond alot. You only quit responding when I ask you to give evidence for your latest lies.

For example (1) , you told FSLT that I argued Butch never intended to RS Dobbs. That's a lie. You know that's a lie. When I asked you to provide where I claimed that, you disappeared.

(2) When I proved you dead wrong on Peterman having a broken hand throwing in the Florida meltdown, you tried desperately to BS your way out of the facts, then wen't silent.

(3) When I caught you later ripping Peterman's Florida performance while omitting the broken hand fact, you ran away like a weasel.

(4) When you then tried to claim the broken hand did not happen until after the meltdown, I proved you wrong AND exactly when the broken hand happened in the game. Again, you refused to acknowledge anything and ran away.

(5) You lied to everyone about having no hostility towards Peterman. After I destroyed you with multiple lines of evidence for ripping apart Peterman, you now change your tune and speak patronizingly well towards the guy you were ripping all over VN.

Face it KBVol, you have been a really dishonest chump.
You cannot demonstrate one single example where I have been dishonest or lied. None of you can.
Not one of you can demonstrate ONE single argument I have offered that is not supported by the facts and evidence. But hey, you can feel good circle-jerking with the other Peterman bashers whom I took apart. They fared no better.
 
#392
#392
American Pig said:
Yep, about 4 - and you are chief among them. You stop responding every time you get caught red-handed in lies and CAN'T answer.

For an idiot claiming to ignore me, you sure do follow along and respond alot. You only quit responding when I ask you to give evidence for your latest lies.

For example (1) , you told FSLT that I argued Butch never intended to RS Dobbs. That's a lie. You know that's a lie. When I asked you to provide where I claimed that, you disappeared.

(2) When I proved you dead wrong on Peterman having a broken hand throwing in the Florida meltdown, you tried desperately to BS your way out of the facts, then wen't silent.

(3) When I caught you later ripping Peterman's Florida performance while omitting the broken hand fact, you ran away like a weasel.

(4) When you then tried to claim the broken hand did not happen until after the meltdown, I proved you wrong AND exactly when the broken hand happened in the game. Again, you refused to acknowledge anything and ran away.

(5) You lied to everyone about having no hostility towards Peterman. After I destroyed you with multiple lines of evidence for ripping apart Peterman, you now change your tune and speak patronizingly well towards the guy you were ripping all over VN.

Face it KBVol, you have been a really dishonest chump.
You cannot demonstrate one single example where I have been dishonest or lied. None of you can.
Not one of you can demonstrate ONE single argument I have offered that is not supported by the facts and evidence. But hey, you can feel good circle-jerking with the other Peterman bashers whom I took apart. They fared no better.
Click to expand...

:shhh:
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    32.1 KB · Views: 1
#393
#393
Volosaurus rex said:
American Pig, I have refrained from engaging in the minutiae of this particular debate because, quite frankly, I don't care. However, I would like to offer two observations for your consideration:

(1) You are, for the most part, dealing with fellow Vol fans on this forum. Although you may never change the opinions of those with whom you profoundly disagree, you would at least be regarded with a smidgen more respect if you ceased and desisted from calling virtually everyone who disagrees with you a "liar." Please save that level of vitriol for disrespectful Alabama, Florida fans etc. who wander into our cyber territory.

(2) I am certain that you will disagree with this observation, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes "fact." You have engaged in drawing inferences on this topic from the limited data to which we all have access. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, but the conclusions which we reach under those circumstances are ultimately interpretations based on limited data. None of us are privy to Butch Jones' innermost thoughts on this topic, the communications which he has had on the matter with Josh, his parents or the coaching staff. There have been very few direct quotes on the subject which could be described as reliable primary source data.

If that didn't make a dent, and I presume that it didn't, let's consult some third-party resources (i.e.online dictionaries) for definitions of what constitutes "fact":

"Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact" (from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition).

"A real state of things, as distinguished from a statement or belief; that in the real world agreement or disagreement with which makes a proposition true or false" (from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia).

"a concept whose truth can be proved" (from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University).

"an event known to have happened or something known to have existed" (from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University). All definitions are cited from https://www.wordnik.com/words/fact.

Please note the emphasis upon events, attributes or information, the reality or truth of which can be verified, proven, documented or demonstrated. I understand that it is your belief that the arguments which you advance are facts, but, by these definitions, they simply aren't.
Click to expand...


Volosaurus, I acknowledge receipt of your selective outrage and will discard it properly.
I can assure you I NEVER accuse a person of lying for mere disagreement. I accuse them of lying when they knowingly and purposefully are not truthful - and only after being proven wrong. Unfortunately, those people exist - even among our beloved VN family.

Most of these people were caught bashing a fellow Vol QB named Nathan Peterman. When confronted with a pile of facts and evidence that proved their judgments unwarranted, they have proven themselves dishonest and many have proven themselves highly manipulative.
They drag things off in the weeds to obfuscate what happened, offer endless red-herrings to distract from their proven lies, refuse to answer when asked to demonstrate a particular lie, thereby giving evidence they know they lied, and continually evade the truth when proven wrong by facts and evidence.

Unfortunately, you, like most, will stick your nose in mid-stream and have no idea of the context. You only see me ripping this same pack of liars up for their lies and evasion, so you assume I'm the bad guy who accuses everyone of lying. In fact, they followed me over here to attack my perfectly valid comments relevant to the thread. I'm not allowing them a free pass to gang-rape me. I just keep holding them accountable to the original debate they lost on the merits. It's not pretty, but I'm not backing down to these pervasively dishonest people.

So while I appreciate your well-meaning sentiments, you have no idea what happened and you are defending a pack of angry, pervasively dishonest idiots hoping to shut me up with their collective noise. Remember, most of whom were caught red-handed on other threads bashing Peterman - a fellow Vol player - for very bad reasons. I confronted them. That's why they hate me.
 
Last edited:
#395
#395
butchna said:
:shhh:
Click to expand...

BTW Butchna, FYI, I wasn't counting you among the 'liars'. We had our moments on the original threads, but you haven't proven yourself to be without conscience like some of these clowns. That's why I don't go after you, I actually agree with many of your thoughts and find then reasonable. Ain't that scary?.
 
#396
#396
American Pig said:
Volosaurus, I acknowledge receipt of your selective outrage and will discard it properly.
I can assure you I NEVER accuse a person of lying for mere disagreement. I accuse them of lying when they knowingly and purposefully are not truthful - and only after being proven wrong. Unfortunately, those people exist - even among our beloved VN family.

Most of these people were caught bashing a fellow Vol QB named Nathan Peterman. When confronted with a pile of facts and evidence that proved their judgments unwarranted, they have proven themselves dishonest and many have proven themselves highly manipulative.
They drag things off in the weeds to obfuscate what happened, offer endless red-herrings to distract from their proven lies, refuse to answer when asked to demonstrate a particular lie, thereby giving evidence they know they lied, and continually evade the truth when proven wrong by facts and evidence.

Unfortunately, you, like most, will stick your nose in mid-stream and have no idea of the context. You only see me ripping this same pack of liars up for their lies and evasion, so you assume I'm the bad guy who accuses everyone of lying. In fact, they followed me over here to attack my perfectly valid comments relevant to the thread. I'm not allowing them a free pass to gang-rape me. I just keep holding them accountable to the original debate they lost on the merits. It's not pretty, but I'm not backing down to these pervasively dishonest people.

So while I appreciate your well-meaning sentiments, you have no idea what happened and you are defending a pack of angry, pervasively dishonest idiots hoping to shut me up with their collective noise. Remember, most of whom were caught red-handed on other threads bashing Peterman - a fellow Vol player - for very bad reasons. I confronted them. That's why they hate me.
Click to expand...

Lol, no.I doubt any of us truly hate you. Persecution complex much? I think a lot of us just like stirring you up because it's so easy to do. Your obsession with Nate Peterman is truly strange to see, and it would seem to me that you are much less interested in Vol football than you are in being right. You do realize you could put an end to the whole thing by just shutting the hell up if it bothers you sooo much.......
 
#397
#397
American Pig said:
BTW Butchna, FYI, I wasn't counting you among the 'liars'. We had our moments on the original threads, but you haven't proven yourself to be without conscience like some of these clowns. That's why I don't go after you, I actually agree with many of your thoughts and find then reasonable. Ain't that scary?.
Click to expand...

Can be...keep the faith bro! :thumbsup:
 
#398
#398
American Pig said:
Volosaurus, I acknowledge receipt of your selective outrage and will discard it properly.
I can assure you I NEVER accuse a person of lying for mere disagreement. I accuse them of lying when they knowingly and purposefully are not truthful - and only after being proven wrong. Unfortunately, those people exist - even among our beloved VN family.

Most of these people were caught bashing a fellow Vol QB named Nathan Peterman. When confronted with a pile of facts and evidence that proved their judgments unwarranted, they have proven themselves dishonest and many have proven themselves highly manipulative.
They drag things off in the weeds to obfuscate what happened, offer endless red-herrings to distract from their proven lies, refuse to answer when asked to demonstrate a particular lie, thereby giving evidence they know they lied, and continually evade the truth when proven wrong by facts and evidence.

Unfortunately, you, like most, will stick your nose in mid-stream and have no idea of the context. You only see me ripping this same pack of liars up for their lies and evasion, so you assume I'm the bad guy who accuses everyone of lying. In fact, they followed me over here to attack my perfectly valid comments relevant to the thread. I'm not allowing them a free pass to gang-rape me. I just keep holding them accountable to the original debate they lost on the merits. It's not pretty, but I'm not backing down to these pervasively dishonest people.

So while I appreciate your well-meaning sentiments, you have no idea what happened and you are defending a pack of angry, pervasively dishonest idiots hoping to shut me up with their collective noise. Remember, most of whom were caught red-handed on other threads bashing Peterman - a fellow Vol player - for very bad reasons. I confronted them. That's why they hate me.
Click to expand...
Lel, you try so hard.
 
#399
#399
American Pig said:
Volosaurus, I acknowledge receipt of your selective outrage and will discard it properly.

I can assure you I NEVER accuse a person of lying for mere disagreement. I accuse them of lying when they knowingly and purposefully are not truthful - and only after being proven wrong. Unfortunately, those people exist - even among our beloved VN family.

Most of these people were caught bashing a fellow Vol QB named Nathan Peterman. When confronted with a pile of facts and evidence that proved their judgments unwarranted, they have proven themselves dishonest and many have proven themselves highly manipulative.
They drag things off in the weeds to obfuscate what happened, offer endless red-herrings to distract from their proven lies, refuse to answer when asked to demonstrate a particular lie, thereby giving evidence they know they lied, and continually evade the truth when proven wrong by facts and evidence.

Unfortunately, you, like most, will stick your nose in mid-stream and have no idea of the context. You only see me ripping this same pack of liars up for their lies and evasion, so you assume I'm the bad guy who accuses everyone of lying. In fact, they followed me over here to attack my perfectly valid comments relevant to the thread. I'm not allowing them a free pass to gang-rape me. I just keep holding them accountable to the original debate they lost on the merits. It's not pretty, but I'm not backing down to these pervasively dishonest people.

So while I appreciate your well-meaning sentiments, you have no idea what happened and you are defending a pack of angry, pervasively dishonest idiots hoping to shut me up with their collective noise. Remember, most of whom were caught red-handed on other threads bashing Peterman - a fellow Vol player - for very bad reasons. I confronted them. That's why they hate me.
Click to expand...

All bold text statements are completely inaccurate. I have no selective outrage, indeed I have absolutely nothing against you whatsoever. To my knowledge, we have never engaged each other in the context of any previous thread. I have, however, witnessed this long-term firefight from afar, so I am perfectly aware of the context. As for any preexisting animosity between you and other contributors which may have further fueled the intensity of this debate, that is between you and them.

As you are undoubtedly aware, the Football Forum is chockfull of contributors whose primary modus operandi is incessant sarcasm and hypercriticism; this generalization is far less true of the Recruiting Forum. I know that you did not start this thread. However, I have learned that, if you are going to introduce a controversial hypothesis or interpretation, you had better present it with a lot of hard, incontrovertible data. Even then, fools will, of course, choose to fundamentally misinterpret your arguments or categorically reject them our of hand just because they choose to do so.

I recently started a thread entitled "Josh Dobbs will fundamentally redefine the quarterback position at Tennessee if . . ." ( http://www.volnation.com/forum/ten...-will-fundamentally-redefine-quarterback.html). I knew that this speculative hypothesis would be controversial and carefully qualified it as contingent upon the presence or absence of a host of clearly identified variables. The following excerpt from my introductory post in that thread illustrates the distinction I was originally referring to with respect to "data":


"Prior to this season, a number of contributors to this forum suggested that, based on Butch's track record at CMU and Cincy, he prefers to use the quarterback position as a more integral part of the running game than we are accustomed to seeing from a Tennessee offense. For example, in 2007, Dan Lefevour, Jones’ starting QB at Central Michigan, ran 188 times for 1,122 yards (6.0 ave.) and 19 tds. He also passed for 3,652 yds. and 27 tds. that year. Over the course of his career, Lefevour amassed nearly 3,000 yards and 47 touchdowns on the ground while passing for almost 13,000 yards and 102 touchdowns (Dan Lefevour Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com). Yes, that was against MAC-level competition but Butch is now stockpiling SEC-caliber athletes to implement his system.

Fast-forward to 2014. In two games, Dobbs has rushed for 241 yards on 43 carries (5.6 ypc) while passing for 493 yards and 4 touchdowns. That, of course, includes a school-record 166 yards rushing and 301 yards through the air vs. a very bad South Carolina defense, a total which it appears would now rank third all-time on the single-game total offense charts for Tennessee quarterbacks. On the other hand, Dobbs accounted for 75 yards rushing and 267 yards total offense in 52:05 of action vs. an Alabama defense which, going into the game, was ranked 3rd nationally in scoring defense (13.1 ppg), 2nd in rush defense (63.4 ypg) and 3rd in total defense (262.1 ypg). Dobbs also orchestrated two touchdown drives against ‘bama, both of which were 84 yards in length and culminated 10- and 15-play drives which lasted 5:00 and 6:46, respectively. Those are the two longest scoring drives which Alabama has surrendered all season."


All of the aforementioned information is verifiable, clearly documented data. People are free to disagree with my interpretations . . . and many of them did with characteristic Vol Nation excess. You, however, are on even shakier methodological ground, simply because none of us are privy to Butch Jones' innermost thoughts on this topic, the communications which he has had on the matter with Josh, his parents or the coaching staff. There have been very few direct quotes on the subject which could be described as reliable primary source data. There simply are very few incontrovertible facts on the decision-making process here which are clearly available to the public. As fans, we are all in the position of drawing inferences from a very limited body of available data as I defined the word in the previous post.

Finally, I am not defending your detractors nor am I being personally critical of you, although "gang-rape" is the height of hyperbole. Like everyone else on here, I simply want to see the quarterback play who gives us the best chance of success, short- and long-term.
 
Last edited:
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top