Butch and Dobbs

[American Pig]

Yeah, its not gonna get to much play. Its contrary to what many here want to be true.

True. But just think about all the friends we are making here. : ). Kinda like defanging rabid hyenas with a baseball bat.

 

[American Pig]

That's not what that report said. You are reading that opinion into what he said.

They reported (as I have said numerous times here) that Dobbs had to regain his accuracy after gaining all of that weight and muscle. As we can clearly see, the sum of his skills are FAR greater than Peterman's even if you could somehow prove by passing drills in practice that NP was actually the more effective passer. Even if Peterman's passing effectiveness in his real game opportunities was equal to or better than Dobbs'... Dobbs brings more to the table and not just his ability to run. The players show confidence in him. He's cool headed whereas Nate appears to be anything but that. We know Josh is extremely intelligent... he makes mistakes but seldom repeats them. Peterman showed some of the same panickly decisions this year vs UGA and Bama that he showed vs UF last fall.

There's more to being a better QB than completing a higher % of passes in drill vs no defense.

Do you have another quote? Do you have one where a coach said "Nate has beat Josh out for the back up role" or "Nate is our 2nd best QB"?

More cheap excuses to deny the facts. Fact is anyone and everyone who payed attention knew Nate outperformed Dobbs by a wide margin. Try to find any analyst who witnessed the preseason performance who claims otherwise. They don't exist. It came down to Worley vs Peterman for the #1 spot, with Dobbs a very distant third.

Now let's see your evidence that Dobbs outperformed Peterman, but the coaches wanted to save the superior Dobbs for next season by RS?

Put up or shut up.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

That's not what that report said. You are reading that opinion into what he said.

They reported (as I have said numerous times here) that Dobbs had to regain his accuracy after gaining all of that weight and muscle. As we can clearly see, the sum of his skills are FAR greater than Peterman's even if you could somehow prove by passing drills in practice that NP was actually the more effective passer. Even if Peterman's passing effectiveness in his real game opportunities was equal to or better than Dobbs'... Dobbs brings more to the table and not just his ability to run. The players show confidence in him. He's cool headed whereas Nate appears to be anything but that. We know Josh is extremely intelligent... he makes mistakes but seldom repeats them. Peterman showed some of the same panickly decisions this year vs UGA and Bama that he showed vs UF last fall.

There's more to being a better QB than completing a higher % of passes in drill vs no defense.

Do you have another quote? Do you have one where a coach said "Nate has beat Josh out for the back up role" or "Nate is our 2nd best QB"?

Well, one of us has a problem with reading comprehension then.

Here it is again so that you can read what he reported. I will high light the parts that go to your argument.

From Ryan Callahan 24/7 sports: "In all candor, there were several days in preseason camp when Josh Dobbs looked nothing like an SEC quarterback."

"Let’s put it this way: There were a couple of days where some of us media who cover Tennessee sat in our room inside the Neyland-Thompson Sports Center and legitimately discussed whether Dobbs or junior walk-on Matt Wegzyn — a Knoxville Catholic High School graduate who used to start at UMass — was the Vols’ third-best quarterback. And the debate was a good one."

"he’s finally adjusted to throwing the ball with better mechanics and with more bulk on his frame — both were huge problems for him in preseason camp — "

How can you possibly come to the conclusion that any of that is based simply on "passing drills"? They did practice against the defense during the spring and if I remember correctly they even had a spring game. You can keep trying to make your argument, but on this point you are clearly wrong. Peterman won the back up job fair and square. Its not even questionable.

The staff named Peterman the #2 so yeah, thats pretty much them saying that "Peterman won the job". I'm not sure how you could see it any differently. One could probably dig and search and probably find a quote or two from the staff saying just that.

 

[American Pig]

Oh, American Pig has never answered this that I know of so does anyone else know specifically when Peterman injured his hand vs UF? Oddly he started the game 1 for 5 with a pick then went 3 for 6 for the rest of the way to halftime. If he in fact broke his hand somewhere in there... it seems to have improved his completion %.

Funny though... looking back at that game then at his two appearances this year... the coaches either don't trust him to throw the ball downfield or he's afraid to do it. Almost all of his completions are within 5 yds of the LOS... for his career.

What have I never answered?

I proved beyond all doubt when Peterman broke his hand - and provided the proof MULTIPLE times to KBVol - who denied the facts. Peterman broke his hand at the very opening of the second quarter. It was his first interception and began the meltdown everyone remembers. He passed to an open receiver, but slammed his hand on a Florida pass rusher's helmet. The ball was deflected up off a player and Florida intercepted.

 

[American Pig]

Well, one of us has a problem with reading comprehension then.

Here it is again so that you can read what he reported. I will high light the parts that go to your argument.

From Ryan Callahan 24/7 sports: "In all candor, there were several days in preseason camp when Josh Dobbs looked nothing like an SEC quarterback."

"Let’s put it this way: There were a couple of days where some of us media who cover Tennessee sat in our room inside the Neyland-Thompson Sports Center and legitimately discussed whether Dobbs or junior walk-on Matt Wegzyn — a Knoxville Catholic High School graduate who used to start at UMass — was the Vols’ third-best quarterback. And the debate was a good one."

"he’s finally adjusted to throwing the ball with better mechanics and with more bulk on his frame — both were huge problems for him in preseason camp — "

How can you possibly come to the conclusion that any of that is based simply on "passing drills"? They did practice against the defense during the spring and if I remember correctly they even had a spring game. You can keep trying to make your argument, but on this point you are clearly wrong. Peterman won the back up job fair and square. Its not even questionable.

The staff named Peterman the #2 so yeah, thats pretty much them saying that "Peterman won the job". I'm not sure how you could see it any differently. One could probably dig and search and probably find a quote or two from the staff saying just that.

That boy never runs out of cheap excuses. He will say anything to avoid admitting the truth.

 

[GAVol]

More cheap excuses to deny the facts. Fact is anyone and everyone who payed attention knew Nate outperformed Dobbs by a wide margin. Try to find any analyst who witnessed the preseason performance who claims otherwise. They don't exist. It came down to Worley vs Peterman for the #1 spot, with Dobbs a very distant third.

Now let's see your evidence that Dobbs outperformed Peterman, but the coaches wanted to save the superior Dobbs for next season by RS?

Put up or shut up.

Hey look. It's this. Again.

Who cares who was 2 or 3 or 2a and 2b? Why is it even a debate worth worrying about when it's clear who 1 is right now?

 

[sjt18]

How can you possibly come to the conclusion that any of that is based simply on "passing drills"?

How can you possibly read that as the coaches deciding that Peterman "won" the back up job? They talked about Dobbs' struggles. I would bet that if they would be honest with you... in August 2006 they were discussing Ainge's scrimmage performances affirming that he'd lost it in 2005. Ainge was horrible. He was horrible in the spring game and every scrimmage in the spring. Crompton otoh was completing a high % of his passes in practice and scrimmages.

What the reporters could not see or know is that Cut was working on Ainge's weaknesses. His strengths already made him better than Crompton. Reporters often misinterpret what they "see" during practice.

There was one specific practice this fall when they reported that Worley just looked awful while Peterman was throwing on target. Come to find out... Worley spent most of the day working back shoulder throws. They weren't even working on the same things.

And then there are those other things that reporters have neither the expertise nor the information to evaluate... understanding of the O, game management, leadership, and even to a great extent running ability.

They did practice against the defense during the spring and if I remember correctly they even had a spring game. You can keep trying to make your argument, but on this point you are clearly wrong. Peterman won the back up job fair and square. Its not even questionable.

Yeah... because it has been overwhelmingly confirmed by on the field performance, right?

I'm sorry. Peterman "won" the back up role by default. Do I "know" who would have "won" it had Dobbs not had a RS to take? No. Based on what happened when they actually did compete... I suspect Dobbs still would have won it. But it was a moot point once Worley was the starter and a RS was available to Dobbs.

The staff named Peterman the #2 so yeah, thats pretty much them saying that "Peterman won the job". I'm not sure how you could see it any differently. One could probably dig and search and probably find a quote or two from the staff saying just that.

The staff has now repeatedly said that since August they planned on a RS for Dobbs. That was the plan contingent on Worley's health. When he went down... according to you and Pig the coaches had a sudden epiphany that Dobbs was their next best QB, right? Sorry... but no. They knew and it wasn't a new idea to them or Peterman would have had to have failed before they tried Dobbs. The ONLY reason to yank Dobbs' RS is because they did not have the confidence in NP that a staff puts in their "#2" QB.

Even if by that point they thought Dobbs was the better QB... confidence in Peterman as "#2" would have allowed them to continue with the RS plan.

The quick hook strongly... almost completely... suggests that Peterman was not considered the 2nd best option.

 

[NorthDallas40]

oh ffs fine I'll take the bait

ESPN Linky

Click the linky above. Look at Dobbs stats over the last two years and look at Peterman's

FACT: Dobbs has consistantly put up a higher quarterback rating than Peterman

FACT: Peterman has consistantly been given first shot ahead of Dobbs but was pulled in every case expect the injury and replaced by Dobbs

Peterman has been given MORE opportunity as far as I'm concerned ahead of Dobbs. He has consistantly got the first shot ahead of him! And if he performed he would have stayed out! But the YOUNG MAN DID NOT PERFORM IN A GAME SITUATION! FACT! AND THE STATISTICS ABOVE PROVE THAT FACT! AND THUS HE WAS REPLACED!

FINAL FACT: We all want nothing but the best for Nathan Peterman, we want him to succeed. But thus far with the chances he has been given he has not.

 

[508mikey]

What I heard by watching Coach Jones presser was he wanted to see more consistency in practice from Dobbs.


Nothing bad in that, I've always heard since playing sports from a young age you play like you practice.

explain Peterman then

 

[American Pig]

Hey look. It's this. Again.

Who cares who was 2 or 3 or 2a and 2b? Why is it even a debate worth worrying about when it's clear who 1 is right now?

I already explained exactly WHY. Why do you ignore my answer and repeat your hollow objection?

The OP asked why Butch seems unconvinced on Dobbs. I just set the record strait on exactly why. Four zillion boneheads want to attack me for telling the truth. They create distractions, so I keep repeating the facts.
Somebody needs to keep things honest. If you have a problem with that, so be it.

 

[BeecherVol]

Hey look. It's this. Again.

Who cares who was 2 or 3 or 2a and 2b? Why is it even a debate worth worrying about when it's clear who 1 is right now?

Yeah. I mean the relevant part is when it came time to pick a new starter Dobbs was it and Peterman is the 2.

 

[American Pig]

explain Peterman then

Peterman has rarely played. Not even one game. Half of his ONLY significant playing time was with a broken thumb. Nobody knows how he will play if given time to settle down and get in synch.

 

[BeecherVol]

I already explained exactly WHY. Why do you ignore my answer and repeat your hollow objection?

The OP asked why Butch seems unconvinced on Dobbs. I just set the record strait on exactly why. Four zillion boneheads want to attack me for telling the truth. They create distractions, so I keep repeating the facts.
Somebody needs to keep things honest. If you have a problem with that, so be it.

I dont think unconvinced is accurate in the slightest. That was the OPs opinion.

If he doesnt prop him up as a future AA and Heisman winner you have some that take that as Jones being insecure about his ability.

 

[508mikey]

I already explained exactly WHY. Why do you ignore my answer and repeat your hollow objection?

The OP asked why Butch seems unconvinced on Dobbs. I just set the record strait on exactly why. Four zillion boneheads want to attack me for telling the truth. They create distractions, so I keep repeating the facts.
Somebody needs to keep things honest. If you have a problem with that, so be it.

Can you expalin that one more time - I didnt see it posted

 

[sjt18]

What have I never answered?

I proved beyond all doubt when Peterman broke his hand - and provided the proof MULTIPLE times to KBVol - who denied the facts.

When? What drive? What quarter? How much time on the clock?

Peterman broke his hand at the very opening of the second quarter. It was his first interception and began the meltdown everyone remembers.

Then he STILL would have been 1 for 4 at that point, right? He STILL had not had an effective drive to that point, right?

BTW, you have not earned ANY level of trust. I would like to see independent proof that the injury occurred then.

He passed to an open receiver, but slammed his hand on a Florida pass rusher's helmet. The ball was deflected up off a player and Florida intercepted.

I think you are conflating that with Worley's injury last year.... nonetheless.... what you are basically claiming is that injuring his hand made him more accurate. He was 1 for 5 with that INT. He was 3 for his next 6.

I just watched that play again btw. He threw it too hard and too high. UF picked it off after the UT WR tipped it. He also threw into the teeth of the D.

 

[GAVol]

Peterman has rarely played. Not even one game. Half of his ONLY significant playing time was with a broken thumb. Nobody knows how he will play if given time to settle down and get in synch.

Meanwhile, Dobbs looks like he has a command of the offense and the game has slowed down for him. I'm not sure what you expect to happen from here on out.

 

[sjt18]

Peterman has rarely played. Not even one game. Half of his ONLY significant playing time was with a broken thumb. Nobody knows how he will play if given time to settle down and get in synch.

Sorry. But that argument fails on all counts.

If he had earned the confidence that Worley enjoyed... then Dobbs never plays this year. If it was close... Dobbs never plays this year.

The coaches must feel that they DO know how he would play... and they pulled him after two series vs Bama and haven't looked back.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

How can you possibly read that as the coaches deciding that Peterman "won" the back up job? They talked about Dobbs' struggles. I would bet that if they would be honest with you... in August 2006 they were discussing Ainge's scrimmage performances affirming that he'd lost it in 2005. Ainge was horrible. He was horrible in the spring game and every scrimmage in the spring. Crompton otoh was completing a high % of his passes in practice and scrimmages.

What the reporters could not see or know is that Cut was working on Ainge's weaknesses. His strengths already made him better than Crompton. Reporters often misinterpret what they "see" during practice.

There was one specific practice this fall when they reported that Worley just looked awful while Peterman was throwing on target. Come to find out... Worley spent most of the day working back shoulder throws. They weren't even working on the same things.

And then there are those other things that reporters have neither the expertise nor the information to evaluate... understanding of the O, game management, leadership, and even to a great extent running ability.

Yeah... because it has been overwhelmingly confirmed by on the field performance, right?

I'm sorry. Peterman "won" the back up role by default. Do I "know" who would have "won" it had Dobbs not had a RS to take? No. Based on what happened when they actually did compete... I suspect Dobbs still would have won it. But it was a moot point once Worley was the starter and a RS was available to Dobbs.


The staff has now repeatedly said that since August they planned on a RS for Dobbs. That was the plan contingent on Worley's health. When he went down... according to you and Pig the coaches had a sudden epiphany that Dobbs was their next best QB, right? Sorry... but no. They knew and it wasn't a new idea to them or Peterman would have had to have failed before they tried Dobbs. The ONLY reason to yank Dobbs' RS is because they did not have the confidence in NP that a staff puts in their "#2" QB.

Even if by that point they thought Dobbs was the better QB... confidence in Peterman as "#2" would have allowed them to continue with the RS plan.

The quick hook strongly... almost completely... suggests that Peterman was not considered the 2nd best option.

I'm not gonna get into a long drawn out debate with you over this, I don't have the time nor the patience. The simple fact is that the staff made the decision to name Peterman the #2 based on what they saw in practice at the time. Has nothing to do with how Dobbs has played so far. The fact is that prior to the season Peterman was named the backup. If Dobbs had of demonstrated in practice how he has played so far, I can bet there would have been no consideration of a red shirt. He may have even been the starter. As a matter of fact I bet that they had planned on red shirting either him or Peterman based on what they saw in preseason practice.

Your making the argument that no one can know for sure if Peterman won it fair and square because, as far as you know, no one on the staff came out and said it. The same argument can be made the other way also.

Its all conjecture. But on the literal side, CBJ and staff named Peterman the #2. To me, that pretty much says that Peterman won the job.

 

[sjt18]

I dont think unconvinced is accurate in the slightest. That was the OPs opinion.

If he doesnt prop him up as a future AA and Heisman winner you have some that take that as Jones being insecure about his ability.

This is one of his favorite tactics. When he wants to evade a point he can't answer... he claims to have answered it but you are just to dumb or stubborn to see it. He'll try to turn it into a personal argument to avoid things he cannot answer reasonably or factually.

 

[508mikey]

Peterman has rarely played. Not even one game. Half of his ONLY significant playing time was with a broken thumb. Nobody knows how he will play if given time to settle down and get in synch.

He had his start vs Alabama @ home --- failed big time and he wont see the field again unless Dobbs gets hurt - after this season his odds are much worse. He could probably start at a place like Memphis but he isnt an SEC caliber Qb

 

[TheRain]

I'm sure the coaches have helped Dobbs in some ways, as the do most players--but I certainly saw what Dobbs could do last year--be better than Worley and Peterman--even if everyone else on this board refused to see it.

Dobbs is an athlete, and what we're getting from Jones is more than a bit of coverup for a bungled QB decision. Dobbs could complete half as many passes as Worley and we'd still be a better offense because of his ability to run--and in fact he throws as well as Worley, and will get better.

Running wise Dobbs 5.0 Yards/Carry last year... This year 5.6... no big difference.

Passing wise last year Dobbs Pass Efficiency was 103.29... this year it's 128.63... I would say coach has helped.

As far as why he didn't start the season opener... Coach didn't seem to think he was ready. You'll get over it.

 

[American Pig]

I dont think unconvinced is accurate in the slightest. That was the OPs opinion.

If he doesnt prop him up as a future AA and Heisman winner you have some that take that as Jones being insecure about his ability.

I think the OP is wondering about Butch's unwillingness to shower praise on Dobbs. My answer is directly relevant to the question and consistent with what I have argued all along. Butch is not blind to the problems that led to Dobbs demotion to number 3 - and that is exactly what happened. Butch is also concerned that the 'inconsistency' is still a major problem - despite the starry eyed fanbase and reporters unwilling to accept that reality.

 

[GrowVol]

This is one of his favorite tactics. When he wants to evade a point he can't answer... he claims to have answered it but you are just to dumb or stubborn to see it. He'll try to turn it into a personal argument to avoid things he cannot answer reasonably or factually.

From the Mouths Of Babes...wow

 

[sjt18]

I'm not gonna get into a long drawn out debate with you over this, I don't have the time nor the patience. The simple fact is that the staff made the decision to name Peterman the #2 based on what they saw in practice at the time.

Prove it. If that were true then there would be a statement from a coach somewhere, sometime backing it up.

Has nothing to do with how Dobbs has played so far. The fact is that prior to the season Peterman was named the backup. If Dobbs had of demonstrated in practice how he has played so far, I can bet there would have been no consideration of a red shirt

You really want to believe that after Dobbs did not win the starting job over Worley that the staff really wanted to burn a year of his eligibility playing mop up?

He may have even been the starter. As a matter of fact I bet that they had planned on red shirting either him or Peterman based on what they saw in preseason practice.

Peterman already RS'd.

Your making the argument that no one can know for sure if Peterman won it fair and square because, as far as you know, no one on the staff came out and said it. The same argument can be made the other way also.

Except when it came time to say it by action... they did. They said "Dobbs" is the guy who gives us the best chance to win after Worley.

Its all conjecture. But on the literal side, CBJ and staff named Peterman the #2. To me, that pretty much says that Peterman won the job.

Dobbs had not RS'd. Peterman had. Dobbs could not simultaneously be the back up and take a RS.

 

[BeecherVol]

Meanwhile, Dobbs looks like he has a command of the offense and the game has slowed down for him. I'm not sure what you expect to happen from here on out.

Dobbs secures the 1.
Peterman probably remains the 2 next year unless Dobbs goes down in a similar fashion to Worley this year. In that case Peterman will have to fend off one of the FR to take the 1.