BTO’s LSU Postgame Report

cncchris33

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Possibly, I’m not sure how to see it game but game.
Probably a chore for @golfballs, but accoeding to Sports-Reference.com, our Pace (an estimate of team possessions per 40 minutes) was highest OOC against ETSU and Arizona (77.1 and 76.7, respectively).

TTU was 70.4
Bama was 74.2
Ole Miss was 66.0
LSU was 72.7

Not sure how significant those differences are, really.
 

cncchris33

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Probably a chore for @golfballs, but accoeding to Sports-Reference.com, our Pace (an estimate of team possessions per 40 minutes) was highest OOC against ETSU and Arizona (77.1 and 76.7, respectively).

TTU was 70.4
Bama was 74.2
Ole Miss was 66.0
LSU was 72.7

Not sure how significant those differences are, really.
@bleedingTNorange, now that I have had a chance to view it on my PC instead of my phone, I was able to find the season-long Pace statistics of every NCAA team. Tennessee ranks 152nd of 358 teams. So, they are right on the fringe of top ⅓, nationally. We are 7th in the SEC behind Bama, South Carolina, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, and Kentucky.
 
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@bleedingTNorange, now that I have had a chance to view it on my PC instead of my phone, I was able to find the season-long Pace statistics of every NCAA team. Tennessee ranks 152nd of 358 teams. So, they are right on the fringe of top ⅓, nationally. We are 7th in the SEC behind Bama, South Carolina, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, and Kentucky.
We we’re around 70 last night, LSU and Alabama play uptempo so the willingness of our opponent may play a factor as well…Ole Miss is one of the slower playing teams in the country and it seems every South Carolina game we play is a rock fight. I definitely think we play better uptempo, and if we are gonna play smaller ball that would benefit us it would seem to do. It looks like turnovers have gone up with pace though so that might be something that is holding Barnes back.
 

cncchris33

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We we’re around 70 last night, LSU and Alabama play uptempo so the willingness of our opponent may play a factor as well…Ole Miss is one of the slower playing teams in the country and it seems every South Carolina game we play is a rock fight. I definitely think we play better uptempo, and if we are gonna play smaller ball that would benefit us it would seem to do. It looks like turnovers have gone up with pace though so that might be something that is holding Barnes back.
I agree we probably play better uptempo. That was the point of my original post. You seemed to believe we were already considered uptempo, and our pace was similar to Auburn's. Auburn is #51, Tennessee is #152. Auburn is averaging a pace of 77.8 in SEC play. Tennessee is averaging 70.9 in SEC play. Opponent may play a role in that, but in 4 games, we have 3 common opponents (Bama, LSU, and USCe).

It seems like we turn the ball over a good amount in the halfcourt, as well, so I think I'd rather take my chances pushing the tempo and getting to the rim in transition or shooting 3s earl in the shot clock to allow for more possessions. And Barnes will have to let shooters take an occasional bad shot. And Barnes will have to allow a kid to turn the ball over without yanking him. To play that style, you have to feel like you have some freedom on the offensive end without constantly looking over your shoulder after a mistake. We just can't seem to score in the halfcourt, and if we are going to miss shots, I'd prefer to do it with more possessions, thus more opportunities.
 
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I agree we probably play better uptempo. That was the point of my original post. You seemed to believe we were already considered uptempo, and our pace was similar to Auburn's. Auburn is #51, Tennessee is #152. Auburn is averaging a pace of 77.8 in SEC play. Tennessee is averaging 70.9 in SEC play. Opponent may play a role in that, but in 4 games, we have 3 common opponents (Bama, LSU, and USCe).

It seems like we turn the ball over a good amount in the halfcourt, as well, so I think I'd rather take my chances pushing the tempo and getting to the rim in transition or shooting 3s earl in the shot clock to allow for more possessions. And Barnes will have to let shooters take an occasional bad shot. And Barnes will have to allow a kid to turn the ball over without yanking him. To play that style, you have to feel like you have some freedom on the offensive end without constantly looking over your shoulder after a mistake. We just can't seem to score in the halfcourt, and if we are going to miss shots, I'd prefer to do it with more possessions, thus more opportunities.
I was going off KP which has us at 103 and prior to last nights game was in the Top 100 in adjusted tempo ranking.
 

cncchris33

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It just doesn't seem like we have the personnel to play that system if we slow the tempo. It almost feels like we need to be a run-and-gun team that almost always shoots the ball with over 15 seconds left on the shot clock. Play small and run teams to death, get out in transition and attack the rim, or hit trailing shooters for open 3s. Chandler, Ziegler, Santi, Powell/James and one of BHH/Fulk/Nkamhoua. Screw rebounding and mitigate it defensively by forcing TOs, and mitigate it offensively by increasing the number of possessions we get by being quick-triggered.
The way UK played offensively today is a great example of what I meant in the above post. And clearly, I mean stylistically, not the obvious idea that you just shoot 70% and win.

With our post struggles, it's tough to imagine we want to settle into our halfcourt offense and work the ball into the post. We also don't rebound the ball well enough to play that way. Transition offense, quick shots, more possessions, and pushing the pace seems to be the best option for this group.
 
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The way UK played offensively today is a great example of what I meant in the above post. And clearly, I mean stylistically, not the obvious idea that you just shoot 70% and win.

With our post struggles, it's tough to imagine we want to settle into our halfcourt offense and work the ball into the post. We also don't rebound the ball well enough to play that way. Transition offense, quick shots, more possessions, and pushing the pace seems to be the best option for this group.
I thought the offense was pretty good yesterday, numbers say it was as well…few too many turnovers but looked much better.
 

PC Jr.

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Don’t get me wrong, this IS a good basketball team. Lots of canvases would gladly trade places with us. However, good team lose to very good teams and if things don’t significantly improve, the Vols will end up being a low seed, then get bounced the first round. That would be an unacceptable outcome for this staff. I hope they can turn things around. Also, I’m tired of hearing stupid Rick Barnes radio commercials about dry shampoo and “money” during games when he and his team are getting embarrassed. Sorry, just frustrated.
 

cncchris33

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I thought the offense was pretty good yesterday, numbers say it was as well…few too many turnovers but looked much better.
Yeah, it was good enough to win, yesterday, but again, predicated on hitting shots from outside, which we did.

I'm just talking in general, not as a criticism of yesterday's offense. Yesterday was the best we've looked since Arizona, offensively. UK's offensive flow and pace was just an example of what I was referencing that we should look to adopt. Essentially more transition looks.
 
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Yeah, it was good enough to win, yesterday, but again, predicated on hitting shots from outside, which we did.

I'm just talking in general, not as a criticism of yesterday's offense. Yesterday was the best we've looked since Arizona, offensively. UK's offensive flow and pace was just an example of what I was referencing that we should look to adopt. Essentially more transition looks.
I don’t disagree, not sure where to find the stats but we rank pretty high in forcing turnovers, guessing our fast break points don’t match, or even close. Of course if it’s a turnover that’s dead ball (out of bounds, shot clock, travel etc) there isn’t much of a chance for fast break…UK having a guy who gets every rebound and the rest of the team can get out and run probably helps their cause a bit.
 

cncchris33

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I don’t disagree, not sure where to find the stats but we rank pretty high in forcing turnovers, guessing our fast break points don’t match, or even close. Of course if it’s a turnover that’s dead ball (out of bounds, shot clock, travel etc) there isn’t much of a chance for fast break…UK having a guy who gets every rebound and the rest of the team can get out and run probably helps their cause a bit.
I'm sure Tshiebwe helps that cause. And yes, our points of fast breaks pales in comparison to the number of TOs we force.
 

cncchris33

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Have you found fast break points stats somewhere, I can’t find any.
Utsports.com has them in their box score. 1 FB point on 12 forced TOs yesterday.

9 pts on 23 TOs vs USCe
6 pts on 16 TOs vs LSU
11 pts on 27 TOs vs Ole Miss
9 pts on 15 TOs vs Bama

So, in conference play, we've had 36 points on 93 forced TOs.
UK, vs Tennessee, had 27 pts off of 20 forced TOs.

We just don't make it a priority to push the ball, whether it be off TOs or defensive rebounds. Instead, we are so content to settle into our halfcourt offense where we are extremely limited by our post play and below average rebounding. And then many times we end up taking a deep shot with 5 seconds on the shot clock. That's our current offense; 4 or 5 guys outside the 3-pt line passing the ball on the perimeter deep into the shot clock.
 
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Utsports.com has them in their box score. 1 FB point on 12 forced TOs yesterday.

9 pts on 23 TOs vs USCe
6 pts on 16 TOs vs LSU
11 pts on 27 TOs vs Ole Miss
9 pts on 15 TOs vs Bama

So, in conference play, we've had 36 points on 93 forced TOs.
UK, vs Tennessee, had 27 pts off of 20 forced TOs.

We just don't make it a priority to push the ball, whether it be off TOs or defensive rebounds. Instead, we are so content to settle into our halfcourt offense where we are extremely limited by our post play and below average rebounding. And then many times we end up taking a deep shot with 5 seconds on the shot clock. That's our current offense; 4 or 5 guys outside the 3-pt line passing the ball on the perimeter deep into the shot clock.
Would definitely be nice to add some easier buckets, that’s for sure.
 

golfballs

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Utsports.com has them in their box score. 1 FB point on 12 forced TOs yesterday.

9 pts on 23 TOs vs USCe
6 pts on 16 TOs vs LSU
11 pts on 27 TOs vs Ole Miss
9 pts on 15 TOs vs Bama

So, in conference play, we've had 36 points on 93 forced TOs.
UK, vs Tennessee, had 27 pts off of 20 forced TOs.

We just don't make it a priority to push the ball, whether it be off TOs or defensive rebounds. Instead, we are so content to settle into our halfcourt offense where we are extremely limited by our post play and below average rebounding. And then many times we end up taking a deep shot with 5 seconds on the shot clock. That's our current offense; 4 or 5 guys outside the 3-pt line passing the ball on the perimeter deep into the shot clock.
And considering we have guys like ZZ and Chandler there’s no reason we shouldn’t be better. Especially when we play a small lineup.
 

cardvolfan

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The way UK played offensively today is a great example of what I meant in the above post. And clearly, I mean stylistically, not the obvious idea that you just shoot 70% and win.

With our post struggles, it's tough to imagine we want to settle into our halfcourt offense and work the ball into the post. We also don't rebound the ball well enough to play that way. Transition offense, quick shots, more possessions, and pushing the pace seems to be the best option for this group.
I think this is our path forward to maximize what we have and lesson the effects of what has been a fairly anemic post game. This personnel just seems much more suited to a very high tempo game.
 
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cardvolfan

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Also, if this turnover bugaboo persists, we’ve got to create a way to counter the fact that rebounding is deficient along with our own turnovers. Create and push hard or we find ourselves behind the 8-ball every game with the strength of our schedule.
 

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