Bryce Brown decision (merged)

Will Bryce Brown return to play (be listed on a gameday roster) for Tennessee?

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#951
#951
utmba93 said:
There is reason on both sides of the debate. Sticking to that would be the better path to those who wish to win over others.

The issue is that there is more than enough evidence is to engender skepticism. That's why it is here.

Dooley wins the rational crowd back though success on the field. No emotional argument will do it--and I believe what reason exists on both sides has been advanced.

For CDD, new evidence is what is needed most to win over the skeptics. Until then, no amount of name-calling will alter a rational mind.
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Yes. Eric can't start enough ridiculous new threads to change anyone's opinion or approach.
 
#952
#952
BigPapaVol said:
Yes. Eric can't start enough ridiculous new threads to change anyone's opinion or approach.
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Strong the urge for validation in this one is...

He just wants to believe. I can't fault him for that...I want to believe too....
 
#954
#954
utmba93 said:
Start getting used to the reality that there exists ample reason for questioning whether CDD can do this job and you too might learn to parse reason from emotion.
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Yes. There are. There are also signs he's doing some good things to help rebuild the program.

I still think it is unlikely he'll succeed simply because of the hand he was dealt. I want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Success probably couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I really don't have an "emotional" bias for or against DD. I want to see the program rebuilt. That's the only place I'm emotionally vested.

In addition to your emotion on the CDD hire, you need to get off your emotion-riddled Brown attack.
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How is it emotional to cite statistical facts? How is it emotional to critique specific skills that Brown didn't exhibit as a Freshman?
Who really cares if you were impressed with his performance as a Frosh or not?
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Maybe as many as care about your opinions?
Or that runners get more yards against bad teams than do against good teams?
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No question they do. That's my major point. The proof is how they do against better teams. BB did very little in competitive situations last year to establish himself as a great RB.

He's extremely talented and will probably become a great RB somewhere... but he wasn't one as a Freshman.
 
#957
#957
sjt18 said:
How is it emotional to cite statistical facts? How is it emotional to critique specific skills that Brown didn't exhibit as a Freshman? Maybe as many as care about your opinions?
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The statistics themselves are not conclusive. Thus, redundant posts are emotive.
 
#958
#958
utmba93 said:
Dooley wins the rational crowd back though success on the field. No emotional argument will do it--and I believe what reason exists on both sides has been advanced.

.
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Rational people do not need to be won back since they do not make conclusions on insufficient information.

Your position IS emotional.

The very FACT that valid reasons have been presented on both sides DEMANDS that it is too early to draw conclusions.

"Yes" and "no" cannot both be true. If both are possibly true then you cannot draw a conclusion that you must be "won back from".
 
#959
#959
utmba93 said:
The statistics themselves are not conclusive. Thus, redundant posts are emotive.
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Redundant posts responding to redundant error... are not.

The stats ARE conclusive in that regard. BB was NOT in the game in critical situations. He DID have most of his success against weaker opponents or in non-competitive situations.

If you disagree then why not present a factual counter-argument rather than hand-waving? If I'm just being emotional then it should be no trouble blowing holes in my points.

FTR, I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly emotional about. I certainly wanted BB to be great as a Fr but thought it was unreasonable to expect him to beat out MH... turns out that my "reasoned" opinion was right. I would just as soon be arguing that BB should be kept at all costs because he played a critical role in critical situations. He simply didn't.

I have nothing at all against him and really sympathize with him concerning this tough predicament he finds himself in. I would absolutely love to see him stay at UT and pair up with Poole, Williams, Oku, and/or Neal to become the RB duo that takes UT back to the top.

I really do not understand why you think I have some personal or emotional bias against him... I don't.
 
#960
#960
The BB situation seems to be a bigger deal to the fans than all other parties involved including the team.
 
#961
#961
Anyone who doesn't want Brown is a typical I don't want them unless they are a Vol to the core type of fan. Sometimes players have to think about themselves and step back from the situation. The fact that Bryce is still trying to stay at TN and get his BRO to come here as well shows how much he really does love TN.

If you think we have a quality RB situation then I think you are looking at it with Orange tinted glasses.

Poole - He looks to be a lightening rod and could very well be a above average SEC running back, but who here knows for a fact that he can carry the load over a season as a #1 running back? That's what I thought, no one.

Oku - Seems to not be a consistent everydown back option. He will be a GREAT situational player for TN and I expect him to score alot of TD's in his career here, but I am not comfortable with him being our #2 running back at the start of the season.

Williams - He really looks to be struggling after the ACL...which doesn't mean he isn't going to be good someday, just probably won't get there this year.

Neal - I love his tape and am encouraged by what I hear from the coaches. I really think if BB doesn't come back then Neal will end up as our #2 running back early on in the season...and not that a Freshman running back can't contribute fine (Jamal, BB, Henry, Foster, Ect.) But I would rather not put all our eggs in that basket.

All this adds up to desperatly wanting BB back. He has proven that he can be a solid SEC running back, and he did that as a freshman behind a ragtag Oline with a banged up hip.

He has the potential to be the best RB we have had in 10 years...anyone who doesn't want him is just a hater, plain and simple.
 
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#962
#962
Lexvol said:
The BB situation seems to be a bigger deal to the fans than all other parties involved including the team.
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It does have a strong following. I think a lot of it is based on his status in world of college football outside Knoxville. He was Eric Berry-like as a recruit.

Of course, there were people who questioned Berry's Freshmen year as well.

A player can always do more.
 
#964
#964
sjt18 said:
Rational people do not need to be won back since they do not make conclusions on insufficient information.

Your position IS emotional.

The very FACT that valid reasons have been presented on both sides DEMANDS that it is too early to draw conclusions.

"Yes" and "no" cannot both be true. If both are possibly true then you cannot draw a conclusion that you must be "won back from".
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Really... it depends on the conclusion one is drawing. If the conclusion is that there is NO CHANCE for CDD to win, then you are correct.

The 'conclusion' most skeptics draw is that it is UNLIKELY that he will win.

Assuming Dooley coaches this fall (highly likely... an almost certain probability), then the former is mathematically impossible, but the latter is a valid conclusion.

Most arguments here are stochastic and not deterministic.
 
#966
#966
utmba93 said:
There is reason on both sides of the debate. Sticking to that would be the better path to those who wish to win over others.

The issue is that there is more than enough evidence is to engender skepticism. That's why it is here.

Dooley wins the rational crowd back though success on the field. No emotional argument will do it--and I believe what reason exists on both sides has been advanced.

For CDD, new evidence is what is needed most to win over the skeptics. Until then, no amount of name-calling will alter a rational mind.
Click to expand...

In other words...patience is a virtue Vol fans are going to have to envoke and that's driving certain people up the wall

I couldn't agree more about winning...winning makes all this debate meaningless...of course, the same could be said about losing
 
#967
#967
utmba93 said:
Really... it depends on the conclusion one is drawing. If the conclusion is that there is NO CHANCE for CDD to win, then you are correct.

The 'conclusion' most skeptics draw is that it is UNLIKELY that he will win.

Assuming Dooley coaches this fall (highly likely... an almost certain probability), then the former is mathematically impossible, but the latter is a valid conclusion.

Most arguments here are stochastic and not deterministic.
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From what I've seen on here, sjt18 has been most vocal towards SGM, Loften4Three, Fiji, and hatvol...

And all of those posters have taken the position that Dooley will fail...there's no chance that he will not fail...and most of the time they're downright petty in the way they state that opinion
 
#968
#968
thunder5 said:
In other words...patience is a virtue Vol fans are going to have to envoke and that's driving certain people up the wall

I couldn't agree more about winning...winning makes all this debate meaningless...of course, the same could be said about losing
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All true... and I've admitted to losing control of my own patience here, at times.


Please excuse the analogy as sports are nowhere close to war, but...
I watched a History channel story about Pickett's charge at Gettysburg, over the weekend, and the historian seemed certain that most of the men knew it was a mistake to charge the Union line across the open field. I have no idea what those soldiers thought at that historical moment, but I'm sure there were optimists in the crowd--including Pickett himself.

As we prepare to execute the attack, some of us feel more like Longstreet than Pickett...

Longstreet's remarks to Lee concerning the plan :

General, I have been a soldier all my life. I have been with soldiers engaged in fights by couples, by squads, companies, regiments, divisions, and armies, and should know, as well as any one, what soldiers can do. It is my opinion that no fifteen thousand men ever arrayed for battle can take that position.
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At some point, we'll know whether this is the Lost Cause in UT football history. But, Hamilton has already ordered the charge and across the open field we march.


Go Vols!
 
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#971
#971
So Arthur is definitely doing to KSU? If this whole flap is the two wanting to play together, then one would think Brown is definitely gone too. Right?
 
#973
#973
what is taking this guy so long?! just leave you panzy!!! i mean come onnnnn. is playing football at tennessee so bad? has it been tough on you brycie? give me a break
 
#974
#974
utmvol said:
what is taking this guy so long?! just leave you panzy!!! i mean come onnnnn. is playing football at tennessee so bad? has it been tough on you brycie? give me a break
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I know right? Another week? to decide to play between Tennessee and K state? Its a total no brainer, and to drag this out another week is unacceptable
 
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