Big O Breaks Silence..

#51
#51
Many are grasping at straws to find an example where it has worked in D1. It hasn't. All the ones that have worked did not sub every two minutes and they actually used the press and fast pace with actual plays and structured basketball. She doesn't.

Not many teams run it. Arkansas State does, they've had a pretty good past two years. Marshall was greatly improved under Kim. Tennessee year 1 was strong until the end, beat the eventually national champions and played a lot of great teams close. The actual evidence seems to point in its favor as **at least** being an equally valid way to play basketball as compared to what other teams do.
 
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#54
#54
As I understand the rules, unless CKC was no longer the LV HC or granted Oliviyah Edwards a release, the Big O would have to sit a year if she de-committed, which would have been a big loss in terms of her player development, national profile and, of course, NIL $. So, the fears of her de-committing were never rational ones and the same goes for Gabby Minus.

Edwards is obviously a smart person who is saying all the right things but one would have to be pretty naive to not recognize that next season will be a "trial run" for her and that LSU will be waiting in the wings.

My advice, enjoy Edwards while she is orange.
 
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#56
#56
Not many teams run it. Arkansas State does, they've had a pretty good past two years. Marshall was greatly improved under Kim. Tennessee year 1 was strong until the end, beat the eventually national champions and played a lot of great teams close. The actual evidence seems to point in its favor as **at least** being an equally valid way to play basketball as compared to what other teams do.
Being equally valid is not good enough for this system. Because it’s extremely hard to learn, hard to train for, hard to execute, hard on athletes bodies, and has a very high failure rate, this system would have to be far far superior to any other to make it worth fooling with. It also requires a much deeper and more specialized roster, and does not prepare players for the future since no one else plays this way.

In every way, this system is working harder, but not smarter. Which is why people have to go back 40 years to find two or three examples of its success. Also, why highly successful coaches who actually have deep enough rosters to play this way choose not to.
 
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#58
#58
I will add - I really want her to come to Tennessee but don't want her leaving for somewhere else after the first year when she realizes the system may not work for her.

If she is as good as folks believe, she is the type of player you build your system around. You don't force her to fit a system.
Why don't you leave and go somewhere else? Follow Gabe to LSU and you should be happy
 
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#59
#59
Wouldn't that imply that Kim's teams were the smartest, hardest-working, toughest, most resilient teams in all of women's college basketball, at least until last year's bunch?
 
#60
#60
Having the worst season of your lifetime as a fan, and then having it doubled down for on for the next season will do that to people.
Maybe I've watched enough sports in my life to realize it's just entertainment , not life or death like some of you believe....carry on with your pity party ladies and gentlemen...
 
#61
#61
Wouldn't that imply that Kim's teams were the smartest, hardest-working, toughest, most resilient teams in all of women's college basketball, at least until last year's bunch?
At the lower levels against less talented teams yes they probably were. But as many analysts have said, the flaw is that effort and endurance are not separators against elite talent at elite levels. In effect, this system Peter Principles itself out at this level.

Once again, it’s why even the best D1 coaches with the best rosters don’t use it.
 
#62
#62
Not many teams run it. Arkansas State does, they've had a pretty good past two years. Marshall was greatly improved under Kim. Tennessee year 1 was strong until the end, beat the eventually national champions and played a lot of great teams close. The actual evidence seems to point in its favor as **at least** being an equally valid way to play basketball as compared to what other teams do.
Marshall lost to VT 92 to 49 in their NCAA opener. When CKC was hired by Tennessee, this loss was explained as a function of Marshall simply not having the same level of D1 talent as Virginia Tech but once you plug elite players into Caldwell's system, watch out world!!

Last year's end of the year fizzle, which did include the upset big win over OSU to make the S16, was explained as Caldwell not having enough elite athletes to run her system. The dregs like Tess, Jewel, Sara, and Jillian slowed everything down too much but just wait till she has her full stable of race horses next year!

This season, Kim's problem is now defined as that her system is not built for star players who have been immersed and rewarded for playing a different style of ball. No, Kim needs a stable of selfless workhorses who pull the plow with maximal effort and ask no questions and so we are back to Marshall versus VaTech.

In sum: CKC needs elite players to make the system work but the system can't work with elite players. I mean that is an interesting paradox to resolve.
 
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#64
#64
Marshall lost to VT 92 to 49 in their NCAA opener. When CKC was hired by Tennessee, this loss was explained as a function of Marshall simply not having the same level of D1 talent as Virginia Tech but once you plug elite players into Caldwell's system, watch out world!!

Last year's end of the year fizzle, which did include the upset big win over OSU to make the S16, was explained as Caldwell not having enough elite athletes to run her system. The dregs like Tess, Jewel, Sara, and Jillian slowed everything down too much but just wait till she has her full stable of race horses next year!

This season, Kim's problem is now defined as that her system is not built for star players who have been immersed and rewarded for playing a different style of ball. No, Kim needs a stable of selfless workhorses who pull the plow with maximal effort and ask no questions and so we are back to Marshall versus VaTech.

In sum: CKC needs elite players to make the system work but the system can't work with elite players. I mean that is an interesting paradox to resolve.
Any coach needs elite players to play elite basketball? She did not have them this past year.
 
#65
#65
Marshall lost to VT 92 to 49 in their NCAA opener. When CKC was hired by Tennessee, this loss was explained as a function of Marshall simply not having the same level of D1 talent as Virginia Tech but once you plug elite players into Caldwell's system, watch out world!!

Last year's end of the year fizzle, which did include the upset big win over OSU to make the S16, was explained as Caldwell not having enough elite athletes to run her system. The dregs like Tess, Jewel, Sara, and Jillian slowed everything down too much but just wait till she has her full stable of race horses next year!

This season, Kim's problem is now defined as that her system is not built for star players who have been immersed and rewarded for playing a different style of ball. No, Kim needs a stable of selfless workhorses who pull the plow with maximal effort and ask no questions and so we are back to Marshall versus VaTech.

In sum: CKC needs elite players to make the system work but the system can't work with elite players. I mean that is an interesting paradox to resolve.
She hasn’t had elite players yet. The sweet sixteen was a good start. She did a poor job constructing her second roster. It was a disaster. I hope she learned her lesson. The players that you mentioned weren’t ideal for the system. They were, however, good teammates and good for culture. They helped stabilize our program. We need more players like them.
 
#67
#67
In sum: CKC needs elite players to make the system work but the system can't work with elite players. I mean that is an interesting paradox to resolve.
Kinda reminds me of that cat.

No, not @brittannica's cat in the stroller, but the one in the box.





Schrödinger’s Cat*


IMG_3832.jpeg




*The closer you look, the deader it gets.
 
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#69
#69
I'm ready to stop talking about "the system". Talking about it ain't gonna change it.
Time to begin a little more positive talk.

Ain't that Oliviyah a wonderful athlete??

Hope so and if she is as good as advertised, she needs to be on the floor for ALL 40 minutes. You don't have a player like that sitting on the bench.
 
#70
#70
Marshall lost to VT 92 to 49 in their NCAA opener. When CKC was hired by Tennessee, this loss was explained as a function of Marshall simply not having the same level of D1 talent as Virginia Tech but once you plug elite players into Caldwell's system, watch out world!!

Last year's end of the year fizzle, which did include the upset big win over OSU to make the S16, was explained as Caldwell not having enough elite athletes to run her system. The dregs like Tess, Jewel, Sara, and Jillian slowed everything down too much but just wait till she has her full stable of race horses next year!

This season, Kim's problem is now defined as that her system is not built for star players who have been immersed and rewarded for playing a different style of ball. No, Kim needs a stable of selfless workhorses who pull the plow with maximal effort and ask no questions and so we are back to Marshall versus VaTech.

In sum: CKC needs elite players to make the system work but the system can't work with elite players. I mean that is an interesting paradox to resolve.

This is spot on to what some are saying. the Marshall loss to VT should have been a sign to wait.
 
#71
#71
She hasn’t had elite players yet. The sweet sixteen was a good start. She did a poor job constructing her second roster. It was a disaster. I hope she learned her lesson. The players that you mentioned weren’t ideal for the system. They were, however, good teammates and good for culture. They helped stabilize our program. We need more players like them.

Not true - some of the players that were added were considered elite players.
 
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#75
#75
Agree there are significant differences between how CKC system works and general fast paced pressing offenses that others have deployed.

Many are grasping at straws to find an example where it has worked in D1. It hasn't. All the ones that have worked did not sub every two minutes and they actually used the press and fast pace with actual plays and structured basketball. She doesn't.

Just ask the question using google are AI and it will tell you none of these are the same as the Grinnell system or what CKC runs.
Well you have a small sample size across the whole college BB, to even find an example of it works or not. Probably less than 1% play a variance of the Grinnell system. I think the players she had this year would have ended up with the record they did no matter what system they played. When you cant hit shots on a high clip you don't win its simple, no matter what system, especially with no leaders and no chemistry.. This team just was just not a good shooting team and the bigs were bad on inside bunnies. Its hard to believe looking back as bad as they shot the ball they beat Bama on the road & UK and Kenny Brooks even said it was an embarrassing display of BB by his & UTs team. Although this system is the only team to beat UConn in 2 years and the reason they won is they hit shots at a high clip IMO not really the system but you can beat really good team with this system if you hit shots at a high clip. It lets you get your D set up. and especially this years team when they missed shots they basically were chasing and reach fouling and went into bad posture; This team was supposed to be more athletic team than last years but when they missed shots they basically were chasing and reach fouling and went into bad posture. All I saw most of the year as other team was going fullcourt for AND1s off of our long carom 3 misses. It seemed like every guard we played could dribble up the court faster than ,all the freshman could run they were trailing and reaching about half the time and the foul totals killed us.
This was just a flush year the upper class leaders were non existent and the freshmen had no one to look up to a bad outside shooting team with no chemistry.
 

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