Aviation Discussion

GoDucks349

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Any crazy military stories to share? I have one second hand story that goes back to the 6 day war in June 1967. I was in the USAF stationed at Hahn AFB in Germany, during that time we typically rotated a squadron of F-4s to Wheelus AFB in Libyia to use a bombing range in the desert. So it was normal to fly missions out of Wheelus fully loaded and come back empty. The air force usually had around 4- squadrons at Wheelus at a time from various European bases. It was during that war that the sheet metal guys told me it was the only time the bombing range had fired back.....

Maybe they were missing the bombing range a little to far East....LOL
 
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Tri-CitiesVol

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Any crazy military stories to share? I have one second hand story that goes back to the 6 day war in June 1967. I was in the USAF stationed at Hahn AFB in Germany, during that time we typically rotated a squadron of F-4s to Wheelus AFB in Libyia to use a bombing range in the desert. So it was normal to fly missions out of Wheelus fully loaded and come back empty. The air force usually had around 4- squadrons at Wheelus at a time from various European bases. It was during that war that the sheet metal guys told me it was the only time the bombing range had fired back.....

Maybe they were missing the bombing range a little to far East....LOL
No personal stories, but OH-58D pilots used to smoke dudes from the cockpit with their M4. That’s the pinnacle of badassery.
 

ATC_VOL

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@ATC_VOL

I’m pissed off at my NATCA. Do you advise staying in? Until I’m done training?
I would advise staying in yes. I wasn’t a huge Union guy before I had this job but overall I’ve been happy with my local and National. There’s obviously a few things I don’t agree with here and there.

Locally there’s a lot of stuff my rep does just in regards to the schedule not allowing management to try to force folks to work stuff other than what they’ve bid.

Nationally, if nothing else they negotiated the 1.6% raise that we’ve gotten every summer for the past few years. The contract is coming back up in I think in 2 or 3 years and it’d be great to get something like that again.

Additionally there’s a lot of opportunities to volunteer for stuff on behalf of NATCA. I think I mentioned I do the SGET for my area and that kinda allows for something different for me to do every once in awhile, plus I’ve gotten to take a couple of trips with that. Also it gives me something “useful” I can show I can do if I ever lost my medical.

You hear stories about people not in the union not receiving the best training, I don’t really buy that taking place except for maybe somewhere like N90. I will say if you want to transfer someday though, the FAC Reps work with the ATM’s to rank people and not being in could be a disadvantage.

I don’t always agree with every stance National takes but I think the benefits far outweigh anything negative I’ve felt.
 

Tri-CitiesVol

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I would advise staying in yes. I wasn’t a huge Union guy before I had this job but overall I’ve been happy with my local and National. There’s obviously a few things I don’t agree with here and there.

Locally there’s a lot of stuff my rep does just in regards to the schedule not allowing management to try to force folks to work stuff other than what they’ve bid.

Nationally, if nothing else they negotiated the 1.6% raise that we’ve gotten every summer for the past few years. The contract is coming back up in I think in 2 or 3 years and it’d be great to get something like that again.

Additionally there’s a lot of opportunities to volunteer for stuff on behalf of NATCA. I think I mentioned I do the SGET for my area and that kinda allows for something different for me to do every once in awhile, plus I’ve gotten to take a couple of trips with that. Also it gives me something “useful” I can show I can do if I ever lost my medical.

You hear stories about people not in the union not receiving the best training, I don’t really buy that taking place except for maybe somewhere like N90. I will say if you want to transfer someday though, the FAC Reps work with the ATM’s to rank people and not being in could be a disadvantage.

I don’t always agree with every stance National takes but I think the benefits far outweigh anything negative I’ve felt.
The transfer thing could be what keeps me in. The facility and my area in particular are great, but Indiana just isn’t for us. We’d love to get back to somewhere in the south. Don’t hate me, but the more time I’ve spent in Knoxville the past few months, the more I’m open to just going to TYS. ZTL, ZJX, and ZME if I do a center.

My FACREP and VP are so unprofessional on FB. And the emails I got pretty much telling me who to vote for just soured me.
 

ATC_VOL

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The transfer thing could be what keeps me in. The facility and my area in particular are great, but Indiana just isn’t for us. We’d love to get back to somewhere in the south. Don’t hate me, but the more time I’ve spent in Knoxville the past few months, the more I’m open to just going to TYS. ZTL, ZJX, and ZME if I do a center.

My FACREP and VP are so unprofessional on FB. And the emails I got pretty much telling me who to vote for just soured me.
They were actually a little less vocal about who to vote for this time than in 2016 believe it or not. Yeah people acting like that on Facebook sucks, at least your area is good like you said.

Well you obviously can ask me anything about ZME and I have good friends at ZTL and ZJX so I can find out things for you if you don’t know anyone.

We halfway think about TYS as well. Little dock in pay, and who knows if I’d enjoy/be good at the tower side of things makes me think I won’t ever do that. I wonder how many UT fans there are there. Probably get more leave for games here than I could there.
 

Tri-CitiesVol

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They were actually a little less vocal about who to vote for this time than in 2016 believe it or not. Yeah people acting like that on Facebook sucks, at least your area is good like you said.

Well you obviously can ask me anything about ZME and I have good friends at ZTL and ZJX so I can find out things for you if you don’t know anyone.

We halfway think about TYS as well. Little dock in pay, and who knows if I’d enjoy/be good at the tower side of things makes me think I won’t ever do that. I wonder how many UT fans there are there. Probably get more leave for games here than I could there.
Should I decide to go the tower route, the move is to spend three years as a CPC first to guarantee my high 3? And I would save pay to the top of their band? Would you go there as a regular controller or bid a supervisor job?

Should I decide to go another center, what’s the easiest way out? I foresee staffing levels being so low for years to come that a regular transfer won’t be possible. Is it smart to bid a TMU or supervisor job just to get out of Indy?

Once they allow tours again, I’m going to check out TYS. The tower is right next to our flight facility. It would really make my life easier to have my two jobs so close together. That commute a few times a month is a bitch right now.
 

ATC_VOL

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Should I decide to go the tower route, the move is to spend three years as a CPC first to guarantee my high 3? And I would save pay to the top of their band? Would you go there as a regular controller or bid a supervisor job?

Should I decide to go another center, what’s the easiest way out? I foresee staffing levels being so low for years to come that a regular transfer won’t be possible. Is it smart to bid a TMU or supervisor job just to get out of Indy?

Once they allow tours again, I’m going to check out TYS. The tower is right next to our flight facility. It would really make my life easier to have my two jobs so close together. That commute a few times a month is a bitch right now.
Ah yeah, forgot about your guard duties. That is almost a no brainer then.

In regards to TMU I have two buddies from R school who did it and both were begging to go back to the floor within a few months because they were so bored and not challenged at TMU.

Being a supe just depends. Anytime I get CIC for the shift it reaffirms I don’t want to be a supe. I hate watching someone else work a busy sector while I sit and stare at a computer. At up/down facilities I think the supes work a lot more than they do at centers. Also you’d be going to a lower level facility as a supe so maybe you’d be more respected compared to when a controller from a level 5 becomes a supervisor at a level 12.

The save pay stuff you said is correct I think. After that you’d just be at the top of their pay band. New ZID CPC pay to top of TYS pay band I bet is not anymore than a 10-20K difference. Say you transferred to TYS right after you checked out, I almost bet you’d be making more there in 20 years then you would your first 3 years at ZID so high three might not be affected.

The transfer process does seem a bit slow at times. I have no idea what ZID’s numbers look like. I know ZME is well below so it’d be easier to get here than a ZTL probably. You can always try to find someone to swap with. Someone at TYS or CHA might jump at the chance to get to a level 12.

With going as TMU/Supe to get out it really depends on what’s important to you. Better location a priority over maybe having a less exciting job? Do you see yourself as an OM someday? I would say if you transfer somewhere as TMU and don’t like it, you probably can at some point return to being a controller at that new facility you’re at. If you become a supe and have 2nd thoughts and want to return to controlling, you’re going to lose all of your seniority to do so.
 
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Tri-CitiesVol

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The save pay stuff you said is correct I think. After that you’d just be at the top of their pay band. New ZID CPC pay to top of TYS pay band I bet is not anymore than a 10-20K difference. Say you transferred to TYS right after you checked out, I almost bet you’d be making more there in 20 years then you would your first 3 years at ZID so high three might not be affected.
With going as TMU/Supe to get out it really depends on what’s important to you. Better location a priority over maybe having a less exciting job? Do you see yourself as an OM someday? I would say if you transfer somewhere as TMU and don’t like it, you probably can at some point return to being a controller at that new facility you’re at. If you become a supe and have 2nd thoughts and want to return to controlling, you’re going to lose all of your seniority to do so.
I almost wish they’d just let me transfer now then if high three will be negligible. By the time I’m actually allowed back at work I could have maps, LOAs, etc done. But I want to prove to myself I can handle a level 12, especially with our area being a pretty tough one.

My primary trainer wanted to get out west and the only way he could was to get a TMU job at salt lake. They told him after a couple of years if he wanted back into an area they’d let him move. I think getting to a facility I really wanted would be worth spending a couple years in TMU. I’ve been told Indy encourages anyone interested in progressing to management to do a stint there so they better understand the big picture. I think I’d like being an area supe at some point mid to late career, but I have no interest being at the watch desk or QC or anything.
 

ATC_VOL

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I almost wish they’d just let me transfer now then if high three will be negligible. By the time I’m actually allowed back at work I could have maps, LOAs, etc done. But I want to prove to myself I can handle a level 12, especially with our area being a pretty tough one.

My primary trainer wanted to get out west and the only way he could was to get a TMU job at salt lake. They told him after a couple of years if he wanted back into an area they’d let him move. I think getting to a facility I really wanted would be worth spending a couple years in TMU. I’ve been told Indy encourages anyone interested in progressing to management to do a stint there so they better understand the big picture. I think I’d like being an area supe at some point mid to late career, but I have no interest being at the watch desk or QC or anything.
Yeah I would highly recommend doing TMU before becoming a supervisor if you want to eventually go that route. It’s hard to get promoted past just a front line if you don’t have the TMU experience.

We had an a-side here get picked up on a transfer to another center once.
 

ATC_VOL

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Good deal. I watched a replay from my area this morning and looked like a much higher than usual volume of BNA guys. Was it just a push or are they just being rerouted still?
Was the replay from today? Should have just been normal volume. If it was from earlier in the week then some probably got rerouted that are usually on the SWFFT arrival that starts over VXV.
 

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