Anyone following this Google Dragonfly stuff?

#27
#27
hog88 said:
That’s asinine. The Chinese will have total control over the google product. This is nothing more than google profiting off of oppression. Which is fine, they are a private company, my only beef with google is their hypocrisy.
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But if Google makes the program they'll know what China knows. Not that I'm okay with this sort of intrusion, but if it's not Google, it'll just be a Chinese company doing the same thing (if they aren't already). This way, at least, we have a pretty good idea of what sort spying and information collecting is going on and if there's back door so much the better for us, too.
 
#28
#28
jvol1 said:
But if Google makes the program they'll know what China knows. Not that I'm okay with this sort of intrusion, but if it's not Google, it'll just be a Chinese company doing the same thing (if they aren't already). This way, at least, we have a pretty good idea of what sort spying and information collecting is going on and if there's back door so much the better for us, too.
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You're putting a lot of faith in google. My guess is that we will NOT have access to the system they build for China.
 
#29
#29
hog88 said:
You're putting a lot of faith in google. My guess is that we will NOT have access to the system they build for China.
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Not you and me, that's for sure.

Knowledge of the code might be worth something to someone, though.

The web's become so commercial these days. I could see someone replacing Google at some point. DuckDuckGo is the best alternative I've found. The predictive algos Google uses don't deliver the search results they used to.
 
#30
#30
Mick said:
Give me something to go on besides terrified. I was trying to relate to your background.
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Mick said:
There is no better form of government control than a weapon. You think weapons we sell other countries are not used to control it's people?
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It's frightening that they would abandon the principles they say have guided the company and build out a system that allows the government to specifically identify anyone seeking information the government deems dangerous. It is the most effective spying on the populace tool ever particularly linking it through mobile devices.

Actually governments rarely use the weapons we sell them against their people - they may be used against combatants from other countries but outside some specific examples in Syria, Iran and Iraq I'm not seeing what you suggest. Also some of these weapons end up in the hands of people to defend themselves against governments.

Alternatively Google is proposing the building and control of a system to target individuals before they ever need to use weapons against them.

If you don't see the issue with Dragonfly then nothing I can say here will change that. It's 1984 on steroids. The fact Google is planning to be a willing participant tells me a lot about the moral compass of a company who had a slogan "do no evil".

All that said I've never suggested our government should stop them from doing it. Their soul should but clearly that's long ago been sold.
 
#31
#31
hog88 said:
You're putting a lot of faith in google. My guess is that we will NOT have access to the system they build for China.
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We will not but China will - parts of it will reside in China so they will have access to information that Google would never give the US.
 
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#32
#32
volinbham said:
It's frightening that they would abandon the principles they say have guided the company and build out a system that allows the government to specifically identify anyone seeking information the government deems dangerous. It is the most effective spying on the populace tool ever particularly linking it through mobile devices.

Actually governments rarely use the weapons we sell them against their people - they may be used against combatants from other countries but outside some specific examples in Syria, Iran and Iraq I'm not seeing what you suggest. Also some of these weapons end up in the hands of people to defend themselves against governments.

Alternatively Google is proposing the building and control of a system to target individuals before they ever need to use weapons against them.

If you don't see the issue with Dragonfly then nothing I can say here will change that. It's 1984 on steroids. The fact Google is planning to be a willing participant tells me a lot about the moral compass of a company who had a slogan "do no evil".

All that said I've never suggested our government should stop them from doing it. Their soul should but clearly that's long ago been sold.
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Google never defined "evil".
 
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#33
#33
Orange_Crush said:
Google never defined "evil".
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Actually I said from the first time I heard them use that motto that if you are aware you have the power to do evil you are probably about to do some evil.

I first saw it when concerns were arising from privacy advocates with regard to the revelation that Google saves every search ever made. What they know about people (and how the can track them - see their problems where they were secretly tracking people's location) is pretty staggering. Their willingness to build out Dragonfly tells me they do not take the responsibility seriously.
 
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#34
#34
Google Engineer: Company Blacklisted Dissident to Please Chinese Government
GettyImages-951740050-640x480.jpg


A Google software engineer revealed concerning details about the company’s efforts to please the government China before it launched its latest entry into the country — the censored Chinese search app “Project Dragonfly” — which allegedly included the company blacklisting Chinese dissidents from its buildings for fear of upsetting the Chinese government.


Google Engineer: Company Blacklisted Dissident to Please Chinese Government | Breitbart
 
#36
#36
volinbham said:
Weapons companies make products that are designed for destruction. Before they can sell them to foreign powers the US must approve. Everyone knows the purpose.

What Google is doing here is taking a product they've built on the basis of providing more access and freedom to people and intentionally weaponizing it for a foreign government to control it's people. It is entirely antithetic to the ethos on which Google was founded. This is why so many of the employees oppose the move.
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Yeah, whatever happened to "Don't be evil"?
 
#41
#41
Mick said:
From an american company perspective, it's not much different than selling weapons to Saudi Arabia.
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It is actually very different. Google is actively colluding with the Chinese government to place these "features" into their products. Weapon sales don't involve that level of communication and coordination.
 
#44
#44
volinbham said:
It's frightening that they would abandon the principles they say have guided the company and build out a system that allows the government to specifically identify anyone seeking information the government deems dangerous. It is the most effective spying on the populace tool ever particularly linking it through mobile devices.

Actually governments rarely use the weapons we sell them against their people - they may be used against combatants from other countries but outside some specific examples in Syria, Iran and Iraq I'm not seeing what you suggest. Also some of these weapons end up in the hands of people to defend themselves against governments.

Alternatively Google is proposing the building and control of a system to target individuals before they ever need to use weapons against them.

If you don't see the issue with Dragonfly then nothing I can say here will change that. It's 1984 on steroids. The fact Google is planning to be a willing participant tells me a lot about the moral compass of a company who had a slogan "do no evil".

All that said I've never suggested our government should stop them from doing it. Their soul should but clearly that's long ago been sold.
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I don't like it but there is nothing we can do without government intervention. It''s capitalism, that is just the way it is. Do you have a solution or an idea that might alleviate your concerns?
 
#45
#45
Mick said:
I don't like it but there is nothing we can do without government intervention. It''s capitalism, that is just the way it is. Do you have a solution or an idea that might alleviate your concerns?
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Google’s dominance in online search is somewhat troubling in and of itself. They have to be worried about possible antitrust action from Washington but have evidently donated to enough lawmakers to avoid any such action up to now.
 
#46
#46
Mick said:
I don't like it but there is nothing we can do without government intervention. It''s capitalism, that is just the way it is. Do you have a solution or an idea that might alleviate your concerns?
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My concerns are immaterial. It's the Chinese people whose concerns matter. I can only hope that Google bows to public and employee pressure.
 
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