Another reported assault

#301
#301
Congrats to those conspiracy theorists. You accomplished just what the Tennessean wanted you to. Doubt.

There is more evidence about the victim that I question in that story than the actions of Butch Jones.
 
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#302
#302
crusse10 said:
Discredit the Accuser, Vol. 35

The majority of these threads are: if she isn't lying, burn him, but if she is a lying slut, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

0 respect for the accuser and YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY MY RESPECT FROM MY COLD LIFELESS HANDS for the accused.

Because that's "justice"
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I have now read this entire thread and feel like beating my head on a brick wall. To start with just retiring after 33 years in the criminal justice system I despise those guilty of rape as much or more than anyone. I would as one poster said support castration and worse IF GUILTY. My problem with every one of your posts is that with only sketchy allegations from one side you not only convicted and condemned an unknown football player, the coach and every poster in this thread who tried to point out that all we have is one side of an allegation as represented by a reporter with some history of bias. You don't know this girl was raped but have convicted UT and the football player. Your quoted response above illustrates all your posts as I don't recall one poster referring to the alleged victim as a slut. What I have read is a lot of people asking rreasonable questions. I have known of many cases of false allegations being made so while I wish the worst for guilty parties I also realize from my long experience in the field that there is a reason our founders established a system of due process. Too often a young lady gives consent only to make false allegations later if her boyfriend found out or maybe it was an interracial event and she realized family or friends would give her hell if it got out. Ever known that to occur? I have. Those things could explain why she didn't go to the police. There is also a level of inebriation which is not at the level of "unable to give consent" but where inhibitions are lowered to the point they can consent to something or someone they might regret the next day. Rape is a horrible act but you sir need to stop attacking everyone not agreeing to burn the unknown player at the stake just because an allegation was made. Butch has shown he will act decisively. Thankfully everyone is not as quick to convict as you are without actual evidence. And with the current level of federal scrutiny and media scrutiny it is highly unlikely UT put themselves at risk to protect a ball player.
 
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#303
#303
I don't understand how the Office of Student Conduct is qualified or equipped to handle such an investigation. Wouldn't their normal investigation for campus matters involve operating alongside or in some manner with a qualified law enforcement agency with expertise and means to investigate such matters? Without a report to law enforcement, it seems as if this group is out of their element.
 
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#304
#304
As a threshold matter we should understand, and on some level celebrate, that the U.S. is safer than it has been since the justice department began keeping statistics, both for violent crimes and sex crimes*. (For a chart showing the trends of the cases of rape as compiled by the Bureau of Justice statistics, see [3).

As even one rape is too much, how about we look at comprehensive rape education instead of this battle of the sexes that we have now?

I have read here, and elsewhere, that we need to teach men not to rape.

I have read here, and elsewhere, that we need to not blame the victim.

I like both of those points. I also find huge flaws in both mentalities.

First, men can be (and are) victims of rape and sex crimes, too[6]. Teaching a man that he shouldn't rape does nothing to help the man who was raped/assaulted by a female (think female teacher/ male student and how that is handled compared to what is being discussed here [1]). Beyond that, most men (believe it or not) are already NOT rapists. Shaming young men into a real belief that we are all potential rapists, and should be acutely aware of where our penis is at all times lest we lose control of it, isn't going to drive the conversation much farther than it already is. Nor will it likely move the needle on actual sex crime prevention.

Second, the idea of never placing any blame or responsibility on the potential victim is also a very flawed view (differentiated potential from actual victim). How can it be helpful to basically communicate to all women that there is nothing they can do to avoid being raped, besides convincing men not to rape them? That, it seems to me, removes the empowerment and equality that most of us (men and women) want and deserve. Most of us know that there are ways to make ourselves safer and healthier in all other parts of our life, but for some reason it seems that sex requires a view of the sexes as either dominant predator or helpless prey.

Therefore it seems that we need to remove the labels and stigmatization from the conversation. Women aren't victims and men aren't rapists. People should be empowered to know that there are actually things you can do to reduce your profile as a potential victim. And others need to know that there are ways to avoid becoming the defendant. We don't seem to want to talk about those, for fear that it might be victim shaming. It isn't. It is true that there are things we have no control over, and it is true that there are things we can do to greatly increase the risk to ourselves[2]. For instance, not smoking isn't a guarantee that one will never get cancer, and smoking isn't a guarantee that one will get cancer. Quitting smoking does lower a risk for certain cancers. People then can actively participate in lowering a risk for certain cancers by their own behavior. These crimes are similar in that aspect, being raped/assaulted can sometimes be prevented and we shouldn't ignore that. The current system, as many here argue for and against, does appear to have a flaw that is false rape reports at a level potentially higher than other crimes [6]. That isn't good either, and if true, means there is a cultural phenomenon that should be addressed there as well.

That being said, there are some interesting (troubling) trends regarding college athletes and sex crimes. As I quoted in another thread, it should be noted that college athletes make up 3% of the male population on campuses and make up roughly 20% of the perpetrators of sex crimes. Athletes are also more likely to be named and indicted in sex crimes cases but also less likely to be convicted [4]. Interesting stuff.

----dubious references----

1. Example: The big list: Female teachers with students
2. "Conclusions: The high proportion of rapes found to occur when women were intoxicated indicates the need for alcohol prevention programs on campuses that address sexual assault, both to educate men about what constitutes rape and to advise women of risky situations. The findings that some campus environments are associated with higher levels of both drinking and rape will help target rape prevention programs at colleges.” - See more at: http://journalistsresource.org/studies/society/public-health/sexual-assault-rape-us-college-campuses-research-roundup#sthash.SVKQ6Fwa.dpuf"
3. Statistics Show Drop In U.S. Rape Cases
4. http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...ear-johnson-williams-case-5.html#post11203400
5.How Many Rape Reports Are False? - Bloomberg View
6. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/h...e-for-rape-awareness.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

---further reading---

http://www.amazon.com/Rush-Injustice-Prejudice-Correctness-Overshadowed/dp/1595551182

A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA | Rolling Stone

Amazon.com: The System: The Glory and Scandal of Big-Time College Football (9780385536615): Jeff Benedict, Armen Keteyian: Books

Columbia Student: I Didn

*I understand that some people do not like the distinction of rape as something else than a violent crime, I am simply trying to illustrate that things like shootings have been dropping, so too have rapes/sex crimes.
 
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#305
#305
Stevorino said:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the level of blame Butch gets.

For his sake, let's just hope this Tennessean article doesn't open up a can of worms for him. If it comes out that he swept a rape under the carpet, two top 5 recruiting classes won't give him much slack.
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I personally do not see any way it comes out that he swept a rape under the carpet. The female went to university officials (not Butch Jones). School officials investigated the matter (again not Butch Jones). School officials found nothing in their investigation of the matter. I don't understand what else Butch was supposed to do at this point?

If the girl had taken this to LE at the time, yes, I would think the player should be suspended until the investigation was complete. She did not do that, however. The only investigation that took place was by school officials, and in their findings the athlete was not guilty of misconduct.

I'm not saying nothing occurred. I don't know. No one does. But I fail to see what else Butch or anyone else in the football program was supposed to do considering what the school found and LE not being involved.
 
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#306
#306
VolSteve said:
I have now read this entire thread and feel like beating my head on a brick wall. To start with just retiring after 33 years in the criminal justice system I despise those guilty of rape as much or more than anyone. I would as one poster said support castration and worse IF GUILTY. My problem with every one of your posts is that with only sketchy allegations from one side you not only convicted and condemned an unknown football player, the coach and every poster in this thread who tried to point out that all we have is one side of an allegation as represented by a reporter with some history of bias. You don't know this girl was raped but have convicted UT and the football player. Your quoted response above illustrates all your posts as I don't recall one poster referring to the alleged


victim as a slut. What I have read is a lot of people asking rreasonable questions. I have known of many cases of false allegations being made so while I wish the worst for guilty parties I also realize from my long experience in the field that there is a reason our founders established a system of due process. Too often a young lady gives consent only to make false allegations later if her boyfriend found out or maybe it was an interracial event and she realized family or friends would give her hell if it got out. Ever known that to occur? I have. Those things could explain why she didn't go to the police. There is also a level of inebriation which is not at the level of "unable to give consent" but where inhibitions are lowered to the point they can consent to something or someone they might regret the next day. Rape is a horrible act but you sir need to stop attacking everyone not agreeing to burn the unknown player at the stake just because an allegation was made. Butch has shown he will act decisively. Thankfully everyone is not as quick to convict as you are without actual evidence. And with the current level of federal scrutiny and media scrutiny it is highly unlikely UT put themselves at risk to protect a ball player.
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Congrats on retiring from the side of law that counts and welcome to the court of public opinion. Been going on your entire 33 years of criminal justice service. :loco::loco:
 
#307
#307
BP4Prez said:
I personally do not see any way it comes out that he swept a rape under the carpet. The female went to university officials (not Butch Jones). School officials investigated the matter (again not Butch Jones). School officials found nothing in their investigation of the matter. I don't understand what else Butch was supposed to do at this point?

If the girl had taken this to LE at the time, yes, I would think the player should be suspended until the investigation was complete. She did not do that, however. The only investigation that took place was by school officials, and in their findings the athlete was not guilty of misconduct.

I'm not saying nothing occurred. I don't know. No one does. But I fail to see what else Butch or anyone else in the football program was supposed to do considering what the school found and LE not being involved.
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I would have to agree with this.
 
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#308
#308
Stevorino said:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the level of blame Butch gets.

For his sake, let's just hope this Tennessean article doesn't open up a can of worms for him. If it comes out that he swept a rape under the carpet, two top 5 recruiting classes won't give him much slack.
Click to expand...

This supposed rape that was never reported to law enforcement? He certainly didn't sweep the AJ Johnson/Michael Williams allegations under any carpet but then again their accuser went through the appropriate channels (the police) rather than the Tennesseean to recount her story.

A few posters (volgrad500, crusse10) are leaning heavily on the Tennessean's excuse that she didn't go to the police to avoid attention without acknowledging that this accuser is actually very eager to talk about this to a newspaper (Yeah, I want to avoid attention so I'll just call a news reporter instead of the cops!) and to the university. She just doesn't want to talk to anyone with subpoena power who might also uncover some potentially embarrassing details. It is not attention she wants to avoid. It is scrutiny of her story by investigative professionals that she seems afraid of. The stakes are raised once the cops are called and she knows it.
 
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#309
#309
Thunder Good-Oil said:
No it's not. His first paragraph doesn't even address what was said in the post that he's ridiculing. 19 year olds choosing to drink was the bad decision, not attending a party while in college.
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News bulletin. College kids don't go to parties to play tiddlywinks. They drink. And sometimes irresponsibly. It doesn't justify rape.
 
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#310
#310
No rape kit taken....no police report makes me wonder why this thread is even being discussed. I'm behind CBJ limited action.
 
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#315
#315
What do you expect from a college football program that was just a few years ago sending girls on wheels with credit cards to chase down some of the best high school football players in the country?
 
#316
#316
onevol74 said:
What do you expect from a college football program that was just a few years ago sending girls on wheels with credit cards to chase down some of the best high school football players in the country?
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The program that was headed by Lane Kiffin? He doesn't coach here anymore.
 
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#317
#317
Recruiting is better now than when Kiffy was here. Maybe the girls sent in now have private planes instead of wheels, and cash instead of credit cards. Whatever they are doing, it's working. UT outbid Hugh Freeze. That's kind of New I do believe.
 
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#318
#318
onevol74 said:
What do you expect from a college football program that was just a few years ago sending girls on wheels with credit cards to chase down some of the best high school football players in the country?
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Look at the troll...exactly what this thread needed. Thanks for elevating the discourse with relevant commentary.
 
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#319
#319
berryvol said:
We lose with good kids, everyone wants thugs. We start to get some good momentum and arrests start happening. Everyone complains. God I love this place.
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I'm not complaining. Just so you know, girl could have lied. I hate when we assume guilt. Witnesses say that her story didn't add up. Doesn't seem like guilty evidence to me. Move on, nothing to see here.
Lastly, one common denominator in all of this crap is alcohol. For the love of pete, parents inform children that bad stuff does happen when you drink. Not every drinking sich results in a bud light commercial.
 
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#322
#322
smokey0625 said:
I'm not complaining. Just so you know, girl could have lied. I hate when we assume guilt. Witnesses say that her story didn't add up. Doesn't seem like guilty evidence to me. Move on, nothing to see here.
Lastly, one common denominator in all of this crap is alcohol. For the love of pete, parents inform children that bad stuff does happen when you drink. Not every drinking sich results in a bud light commercial.
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fair summary
 
#323
#323
BowlBrother85 said:
No. The actions of Lane Kiffin, David Reaves and Lacey Pearl Earps from 2009 are in no way relevant to the accusations reported by the Tennessean which remain unreported to law enforcement.
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If Florida State had allegations against it in 2009, and allegations in 2014, you probably wouldn't differentiate between Bowden and Fisher, would you? You would say same old Criminoles.
 
#324
#324
1972 Grad said:
If Florida State had allegations against it in 2009, and allegations in 2014, you probably wouldn't differentiate between Bowden and Fisher, would you? You would say same old Criminoles.
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I would take note of the fact that we have an accuser who would rather tell her story to the media than to the police whether she was in Tallahassee or Knoxville...and there are no similarities to what Kiffin and Reaves were doing to rape. I suppose you could call it prostitution but Lacey Pearl was certainly a willing participant in whatever was going on as her facebook post "I recruit champions. Thank me later!" suggests.
 
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#325
#325
volgrad500 said:
In your own words you have described the crime of rape in TN. If a person knows or should have known that the other person is too impaired to give consent, whether they are a man or woman, it is rape. Period.

You may not like the law, but that is what the law in TN says.
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So if the football player was drunk as well, did they mutually rape each other?

There are grey areas in the law that don't get mentioned, or just get ignored entirely. If the alleged victim was truly raped, the player needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The question is, was she raped? Sometimes accusations are true, sometimes they're not.
 
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