Another reported assault

[crusse10]

Or 4 innocent people also. None of these guys have been convicted yet. If they are, I will support the verdicts but not until then I will call any rapists. Again, based on what the paper reported, this could happen to any guy who hooks up with some chick who two days later regrets she cheated on her boyfriend or a friend finds out about her actions.

Discredit the Accuser, Vol. 35

The majority of these threads are: if she isn't lying, burn him, but if she is a lying slut, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

0 respect for the accuser and YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY MY RESPECT FROM MY COLD LIFELESS HANDS for the accused.

Because that's "justice"

 

[crusse10]

I would have had no idea who XB was. Good job rehashing that for him.

Was I wrong?

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

Discredit the Accuser, Vol. 35

The majority of these threads are: if she isn't lying, burn him, but if she is a lying slut, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

0 respect for the accuser and YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY MY RESPECT FROM MY COLD LIFELESS HANDS for the accused.

Because that's "justice"

But if the story isn't about a UT player, that thug probably did it. These things almost always plays out the same way on here.

UT player, "I don't believe it".

Other SEC player, "that school has lost control".

 

[Joe Vols]

What the....? When did having a positive family life become elitist?

Really... He wrote way more than that. To imply we shouldn't recruit, or expect good behavior from someone based on socio-economic issues is most definitely elitist.

 

[GoVols1961]

Discredit the Accuser, Vol. 35

The majority of these threads are: if she isn't lying, burn him, but if she is a lying slut, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

0 respect for the accuser and YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY MY RESPECT FROM MY COLD LIFELESS HANDS for the accused.

Because that's "justice"

Justice needs to work both ways. The accused are entitled to justice as well as the victim.

 

[crusse10]

But if the story isn't about a UT player, that thug probably did it. These things almost always plays out the same way on here.

UT player, "I don't believe it".

Other SEC player, "that school has lost control".

If fraternity letters were attached to him, they'd already be calling for the executioner and the end to fraternities

 

[wmcovol]

Discredit the Accuser, Vol. 35

The majority of these threads are: if she isn't lying, burn him, but if she is a lying slut, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

0 respect for the accuser and YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY MY RESPECT FROM MY COLD LIFELESS HANDS for the accused.

Because that's "justice"

Our legal system clearly states "innocent until proven guilty except in the case of Volnation".

 

[crusse10]

Justice needs to work both ways. The accused are entitled to justice as well as the victim.

So why don't we not attack her credibility?

 

[1972 Grad]

Really... He wrote way more than that. To imply we shouldn't recruit, or expect good behavior from someone based on socio-economic issues is most definitely elitist.

I realize that to compete in the highest levels of college football that one needs to recruit athletes that have no business ever stepping foot on a college campus, unless they are there to work on the grounds crew.

Many are not capable of passing true college level classes. Some are barely literate. How is that for elitist?

 

[brian241]

if you can't remember giving consent, you aren't physically capable of giving consent

Absolutely false. A persons culpability with regard to rape as it relates to ability to consent on the part of a complainant is based on a) was the complainant incapacitated (thats much more than mere intoxication), b) did the alleged perpetrator KNOW or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN of said incapacitation. The 'I blacked out and don't remember anything' claim does not conclusively show anything other than the fact that the complainant does not know whether or not they gave consent. Which means that unless a) the alleged perpetrator confesses, or b) there are other forms of evidence proving a lack of capacity (such as a videotape of the alleged perpetrators carrying a limp, lifeless body of the complainant into a dorm room moments prior to the assault, such as the vandy case) then there is no way for a prosecutor to actually prove a rape exists.

And for good reason. Nobody should EVER go to prison where the evidence of guilt is nothing more than testimony of, "I don't remember".

 

[etsuvol13]

So let me get this straight:

You are suggesting this is squarely on Butch's shoulders.

He is the one identifying the character of the kids that he brings in. If they have no chance at ethical reform, then you should NEVER risk bringing in a kid from a rough background.

So when we have multiple rapists in the football program, this is a critical admissions/coaching error.




I understand that there is likely a correlation between kids with rough backgrounds and a lower ethical standard.

But I personally think 18 is not too young to learn how to be an adult. We heard DeBord in his presser talk about molding men as a reason he loves coaching college kids.

I also don't think sexual assault is a problem exclusive to kids from rough backgrounds. It's happening at colleges across the nation to all kinds of students and student athletes.

Are you just not reading? I'm saying its on parents, and those responsible for the upbringing and proper education of children.

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

Are you just not reading? I'm saying its on parents, and those responsible for the upbringing and proper education of children.

Big part of it imo. Of course when you have parents on this very board who feel underage drinking and drug use is "common" and "acceptable" it stands to reason the younger generation is a disaster.

 

[etsuvol13]

Really... He wrote way more than that. To imply we shouldn't recruit, or expect good behavior from someone based on socio-economic issues is most definitely elitist.

No, you just can't/wont read. I implied that the lack of a proper upbringing, and social worship over kids who play games is responsible for the increasing number of reported sexual assaults. Never did I say or imply we shouldn't recruit based on socio-economic standing. That is blatant hearsay, and you are false in that accusation.

You seem to be one who wants to worship these "student athletes" no matter what stats and arrest rates are. Your problem not mine. My entire point is that the treatment of these kids implements a mindset of self entitlement that a proper parenting job and upbringing can prevent. If thinking parents should be more proactive in the raising of their child, then fine, I'm an elitest. Better that than a thug that don't go to no college to play school.

 

[GoVols1961]

So why don't we not attack her credibility?

I thought you were complaining about 0 respect for the accuser. Maybe I misunderstood. Nonetheless, her credibility is fair game.

 

[Stevorino]

Are you just not reading? I'm saying its on parents, and those responsible for the upbringing and proper education of children.

Yes, we understand that you believe that rapes start at kindergarten.

What I am saying is that if you are correct, the only option this University has to protect it's student body and reputation is to stop them at the door. That responsibility falls squarely on Butch.

 

[etsuvol13]

This is absolutely elitist, and puke worthy.

So thinking parents should raise their kids to be proper adults, and teach them responsibility is puke worthy, and makes me elitest? Guilty as charged then. The breakdown comes from a generation of parents that want to be too buddy buddy with their kids, and fail to provide actual parenting.

The blame falls on poor parenting on both sides. Kids need to be taught situational awareness when they are young, not wait for Butch to lecture them during spring ball after several teammates are MIA or dismissed for poor choices. They ARE NOT above the law, and need to be more educated instead of worshipped.

 

[1972 Grad]

Yes, we understand that you believe that rapes start at kindergarten.

What I am saying is that if you are correct, the only option this University has to protect it's student body and reputation is to stop them at the door. That responsibility falls squarely on Butch.

Respect for others (women and your fellow man) should start about kindergarten.

 

[livefaith]

You are stealing a base there. We don't know she was a rape victim. The recent case at UVa. that turned out to be a hoax got national publicity but was false. The story printed in the ...
Like it or not, the court system is the only viable means of sorting these things out and determining if there truly is a victim. And it is the only entity which can issue a punishment to suit the crime.

This is a really really good post that I believe anyone would benefit from reading?

Thank you.

The fact that a serious accusation like this was brought to campus authorities only, and then a newspaper is absurd. Of course, many 19 year olds would not realize how absurd it is.

 

[1972 Grad]

So thinking parents should raise their kids to be proper adults, and teach them responsibility is puke worthy, and makes me elitest? Guilty as charged then. The breakdown comes from a generation of parents that want to be too buddy buddy with their kids, and fail to provide actual parenting.

The blame falls on poor parenting on both sides. Kids need to be taught situational awareness when they are young, not wait for Butch to lecture them during spring ball after several teammates are MIA or dismissed for poor choices. They ARE NOT above the law, and need to be more educated instead of worshipped.

I find it strange that some people worship someone just because they play a game well. Entertainment has a place in society, but it is not important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[etsuvol13]

Yes, we understand that you believe that rapes start at kindergarten.

What I am saying is that if you are correct, the only option this University has to protect it's student body and reputation is to stop them at the door. That responsibility falls squarely on Butch.

Yes, let's put it all on CBJ. Once again, you can't present a single shred of insight and jump straight to oblivious hearsay. If I am correct the only option is for PARENTS TO DO THEIR DAMN JOB.

Just please stop talking, it's obvious a proper upbringing is not important to you, and you would rather pass the buck. I'm an elitest, but I guarantee you this. My elitest kids will know right from wrong and show respect. Have fun with however your turns out.

 

[etsuvol13]

Respect for others (women and your fellow man) should start about kindergarten.

He's still waiting on Butch to have the talk with his kid. Butch won't return his emails.

 

[wildnkrazykat]

This is really sketchy reporting by the Tennessean, and I think you'll only see more and more articles like this from Matt Slovin and Anita Wadhwani. They're the same ones who drug Hurd's name through the mud about drinking charges when the real story turned out to be very different.

It's hard to discuss these types of topics without appearing to "victim bash", but I think simply discussing the facts & inconsistencies the article presents is completely valid and something we should do when the implications are so huge.

The article uses the story from the victim & her father for most of it..their quotes, thoughts, actions, etc. Anita presents these as truth, without offering any version of the other side of the story. Whether she simply couldn't get the other side or chose not to, I don't know.

Instead she points out 3 "unusual" things:
1. The University Office chosen to investigate the case changed about 5 weeks into the investigation. Instead of the office that investigates student misconduct, it would be the office that investigates employee/non-student misconduct. The University does not explain why. Were the motives nefarious? Was the other office "backed up" and this was a way to make the investigation a priority? Did the situation involve employee/non-student misconduct in some way? Is this a change in University policy? There are dozens of reasons, both good/bad that this could have happened

2. The University does not comment if Butch knows about the allegations when asked by the father. I really don't know how this qualifies as an "unusual" point. Two quotes from the father are concerning:

-"The University seems far more interested in protecting the reputation of the football team than a 19-year-old assault victim"
-"continued presence on the football team as a public representative of the University adds insult to injury. Knowing what (the football player) has done, I cannot tolerate seeing him run through the 'T' every home game; he has not earned that satisfaction."

If I were a University official I wouldn't respond to these either. What difference does it make if Butch has been notified (he was, by the way)? The investigation is being handled by the University, and to somehow act as if Butch is the higher authority here implies the University is not capable of doing their job, which is very insulting.

3. The University, in a 9-page summary with two eye witnesses, determined the sex was consensual. This was "unusual" because normally investigations return a "violation" or "no violation" finding. So, by giving a more descriptive definition of their findings, that's considered "unusual". Had the University said there was "no violation" instead, that would not be unusual. This is semantics, imo.

That is basically the article, and it's very scary what Anita is possibly implying: a sexual assault was covered up by an internal investigation for the benefit of a football player & program. Those are VERY serious allegations. And unfortunately the evidence that Anita presented in her article is vague, inconsistent, and weak. This was not a good article by the Tennessean.

She stated she attempted to reach him by email.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

She stated she attempted to reach him by email.

Of course she did. And he would have been foolish to not ignore it. The Tennessean isn't in charge of the case.

 

[livefaith]

Stop embarrassing yourself. How anyone deals with sexual assault is their business and not yours. Practice some empathy.

She brought it to a newspaper! Newspapers make things public. SHE chose for this to go public, so she made her choice. Period. That's completely fine.

But don't act like the public that has this published to them has no right to form an opinion. Also, publicly there is no person because her identity is not public. So every reader has the perfect right to speculate and inspect these accusations and methods.
Stop acting like you're taking some sort of moral high ground by being a defender of a "victim". When someone makes serious accusations against a person or organization, then take it public, then it WILL and SHOULD get scrutinized. Thank God we don't live in a world where a conviction and punishment are given based on an accusation alone.

 

[Stevorino]

Yes, let's put it all on CBJ. Once again, you can't present a single shred of insight and jump straight to oblivious hearsay. If I am correct the only option is for PARENTS TO DO THEIR DAMN JOB.

Just please stop talking, it's obvious a proper upbringing is not important to you, and you would rather pass the buck. I'm an elitest, but I guarantee you this. My elitest kids will know right from wrong and show respect. Have fun with however your turns out.

I haven't said anything about you being elitist - you are mixing up my responses with someone else's.

YES - I agree: Kids need to be raised well and to respect others. And yes, I'm sure that an improper upbringing contributes to plenty of sexual assaults each year.

In regards to Tennessee Football: We have had what... 4 now? Sexual assault crimes reported in the recent past. That's a lot. That's a problem.

It's a Butch Jones problem.

He is either (to your point) recruiting kids who were not properly educated at a developmental age on how to respect women

or

(to my point) not building a system to educate and support these kids to help them make good decisions.