All Time NBA Players Thread - No Jordan vs. Lebron Debate Allowed

#601
#601
zjcvols said:
@n_huffhines

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The difference between now and then isn't "you can't touch guys anymore." I think the key differences are that we lowered the standard of what constitutes a flagrant, and over time offensive players figured out more ways to draw fouls.

And somehow we ended up with a league that has more possessions and fewer FTA's.
 
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#603
#603
Nick Wright over here bitching about how people complain about the NBA and about how the NBA is covered, meanwhile Mr. Klutch client wants to do a segment on a G-League performance instead of talking about the Rockets or Grizzlies or Pacers or Pistons so he can get a few more clicks. God, why does sports TV coverage have to be so terrible?

 
#604
#604
zjcvols said:
Nick Wright over here bitching about how people complain about the NBA and about how the NBA is covered, meanwhile Mr. Klutch client wants to do a segment on a G-League performance instead of talking about the Rockets or Grizzlies or Pacers or Pistons so he can get a few more clicks. God, why does sports TV coverage have to be so terrible?

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Dude wants to be mayor of KC. He's all about building recognizability and he thinks the job is to entertain, not make the best points possible.
 
#606
#606
95 Vol Alum said:
Mayor of KC? Dare to dream!
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I think that's supposed to be a stepping stone into politics, but that's his hometown.

I barely knew anything about the guy. I don't care for his schtick at all, but he was interviewed on the Press Box (one of my favorite pods) and I now have an appreciation for what he's built and where he's trying to go, even if I want nothing to do with him.

The best part of the interview was that when he was a 22 YO nobody on his local radio station, for no reason at all he decided to wage absolute war WWE style on the biggest name at the more successful radio station in KC, and the rest is history.
 
#607
#607
n_huffhines said:
I think that's supposed to be a stepping stone into politics, but that's his hometown.

I barely knew anything about the guy. I don't care for his schtick at all, but he was interviewed on the Press Box (one of my favorite pods) and I now have an appreciation for what he's built and where he's trying to go, even if I want nothing to do with him.

The best part of the interview was that when he was a 22 YO nobody on his local radio station, for no reason at all he decided to wage absolute war WWE style on the biggest name at the more successful radio station in KC, and the rest is history.
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Those kind of people are not my thing. But it certainly seems to work all the way to the POTUS.
 
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#609
#609
RE: Nick Wright

I saw a timely reel with him last night, and he actually made some good points I had never heard. Lost/forgotten things from MJ's legacy*, but of course he can't help but be stupid about the way he frames it. "Here's what the media doesn't want you to know." like the media has a need to deceive about MJ 😄

*Never beat the Celtics in a single playoff game, went 2-6 in playoff series against what he called super teams (Detrot, C's, and Magic), never had a winning record until Pippen showed up (how did I not know that?), etc.
 
#610
#610
n_huffhines said:
RE: Nick Wright

I saw a timely reel with him last night, and he actually made some good points I had never heard. Lost/forgotten things from MJ's legacy*, but of course he can't help but be stupid about the way he frames it. "Here's what the media doesn't want you to know." like the media has a need to deceive about MJ 😄

*Never beat the Celtics in a single playoff game, went 2-6 in playoff series against what he called super teams (Detrot, C's, and Magic), never had a winning record until Pippen showed up (how did I not know that?), etc.
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2 games. And he drug some SF named Gene Banks to 2 playoff births.

And for the record, the Lakers, Suns, Blazers, and Sonics were not super teams but Magic were? He went 1-1 with Orlando and the loss was his late season return year.

He couldn’t beat the peak Celtics with John Paxson?!?

Yeah, he needs to be in politics.
 
#611
#611
95 Vol Alum said:
2 games. And he drug some SF named Gene Banks to 2 playoff births.

And for the record, the Lakers, Suns, Blazers, and Sonics were not super teams but Magic were? He went 1-1 with Orlando and the loss was his late season return year.

He couldn’t beat the peak Celtics with John Paxson?!?

Yeah, he needs to be in politics.
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I agree the super teams argument is weird. To me, a super team is an established team with multiple stars acquiring another star, so I only see 2 that he played. Magic were because they got Grant but Bulls beat him without Grant, so MJ shouldn't count the win there.

Yeah, MJ has good excuses why he didn't get to .500 but I kinda expect a GOAT to get to .500 on a bad team. He probably just needed more chances.

Ultimately, the point isn't "this is why MJ's not the GOAT." It's just, "this is stuff people leave out of the narrative."
 
#612
#612
@zjcvols Simmons was talking about Shai being one of the best guards ever. I was thinking he is specifically a combo guard, and he may already be the best ever, and well on his way to being the greatest ever. I figure these are the top 11 guys:

Jerry West
DWade
Shai
Iverson
Harden
Dumars
Jrue
Arenas
Hornacek
Spyda
Dame

I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. "Combo guard" is subjective, but to me it's a guy typically with tweener guard size, who basically runs point but is score first, and can play off-ball.

I do not think Curry qualifies, because I do not think Curry looks to score first. Warriors do a unique thing where he runs point mostly trying to set up his own off-ball action. Westbrook was not an off ball guy at all during his prime, so not included.

Edit: Wiki page about combo guards mentions Booker, Terry, Jamal Murray, and Manu
 
Last edited:
#613
#613
n_huffhines said:
@zjcvols Simmons was talking about Shai being one of the best guards ever. I was thinking he is specifically a combo guard, and he may already be the best ever, and well on his way to being the greatest ever. I figure these are the top 11 guys:

Jerry West
DWade
Shai
Iverson
Harden
Dumars
Jrue
Arenas
Hornacek
Spyda
Dame

I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. "Combo guard" is subjective, but to me it's a guy typically with tweener guard size, who basically runs point but is score first, and can play off-ball.

I do not think Curry qualifies, because I do not think Curry looks to score first. Warriors do a unique thing where he runs point mostly trying to set up his own off-ball action. Westbrook was not an off ball guy at all during his prime, so not included.
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Jordan?
 
#614
#614
95 Vol Alum said:
Jordan?
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Some people call him a combo guard, I noticed. I just view him as the prototype for a SG, and can't see him outside of that. He was really big for a SG and he was used much more off-ball. Part of that was the rules (no zone D) which meant if he started off-ball they could easily get him in a 1-on-1. He certainly could have played like a combo guard for life, if that's what his career called for.
 
#615
#615
n_huffhines said:
@zjcvols Simmons was talking about Shai being one of the best guards ever. I was thinking he is specifically a combo guard, and he may already be the best ever, and well on his way to being the greatest ever. I figure these are the top 11 guys:

Jerry West
DWade
Shai
Iverson
Harden
Dumars
Jrue
Arenas
Hornacek
Spyda
Dame

I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. "Combo guard" is subjective, but to me it's a guy typically with tweener guard size, who basically runs point but is score first, and can play off-ball.

I do not think Curry qualifies, because I do not think Curry looks to score first. Warriors do a unique thing where he runs point mostly trying to set up his own off-ball action. Westbrook was not an off ball guy at all during his prime, so not included.

Edit: Wiki page about combo guards mentions Booker, Terry, Jamal Murray, and Manu
Click to expand...

Combo guard is a really tough thing to diagnose since the PG position has changed so much over the last 15 years. You don't really have any Derek Fisher's or Jason Williams or Mario Chalmers types any more. I think that's a good description. I'd bump Harden up to 3rd, but I have no problem with Shai in the top 5.
 
#616
#616
The other difficult part about the combo guard label is that roles have changed for individual players so much. Mitchell played more PG in Utah. Harden played SG in OKC/first 3 years in Houston. Wade played a ton of PG in Miami pre-LeBron. It's hard to distinguish.
 
#617
#617
zjcvols said:
The other difficult part about the combo guard label is that roles have changed for individual players so much. Mitchell played more PG in Utah. Harden played SG in OKC/first 3 years in Houston. Wade played a ton of PG in Miami pre-LeBron. It's hard to distinguish.
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I think how they play PG is what matters.
 
#618
#618
Classic Simmons on the pod Tuesday @n_huffhines. Lowe talked about how nobody has ever been set up for the future better than OKC currently. Bill gets in the 86 Celtic of course, talking about them and how they had Len Bias who was Karl Malone and Charles Barkley good apparently (lol) and somehow forgets the 82 Lakers who won 2 titles in three years and had the #1 pick upcoming with James ****ing Worthy in the draft (who was a better prospect than Bias ever was)
 
#619
#619
zjcvols said:
Classic Simmons on the pod Tuesday @n_huffhines. Lowe talked about how nobody has ever been set up for the future better than OKC currently. Bill gets in the 86 Celtic of course, talking about them and how they had Len Bias who was Karl Malone and Charles Barkley good apparently (lol) and somehow forgets the 82 Lakers who won 2 titles in three years and had the #1 pick upcoming with James ****ing Worthy in the draft (who was a better prospect than Bias ever was)
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haha, I'm asking you **** about Simmons and Lowe ITOT

My group chat

1743719610032.png
 
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#623
#623
Is Draymond pick #1 for "If he didn't have sports as an outlet, he would be a mass murderer" on the all-time NBA list?
 
#625
#625
n_huffhines said:
@zjcvols Simmons was talking about Shai being one of the best guards ever. I was thinking he is specifically a combo guard, and he may already be the best ever, and well on his way to being the greatest ever. I figure these are the top 11 guys:

Jerry West
DWade
Shai
Iverson
Harden
Dumars
Jrue
Arenas
Hornacek
Spyda
Dame

I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. "Combo guard" is subjective, but to me it's a guy typically with tweener guard size, who basically runs point but is score first, and can play off-ball.

I do not think Curry qualifies, because I do not think Curry looks to score first. Warriors do a unique thing where he runs point mostly trying to set up his own off-ball action. Westbrook was not an off ball guy at all during his prime, so not included.

Edit: Wiki page about combo guards mentions Booker, Terry, Jamal Murray, and Manu
Click to expand...
Kyle Lowry. You’re forgetting Kyle Lowry @badjerry
 
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