AJ Johnson/Michael Williams Case (merged)

#76
#76
daj2576 said:
Interesting story, thanks for the link.

I would also suggest a reading of "A Rush to Injustice" about the Duke Lacrosse team. It's terrifying.

By the way, if I recall correctly, the false victim at Duke is now serving a sentence for a later murder, apparently (and the DA was disbarred).

Again, none of this conversation is an indication that I am taking sides in the current case. As a law student, I am interested in these sorts of cases and in the way the media covers them.
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I just am an advocate of due process. I hope to God they didn't actually do it but if they did I want them to see justice.
 
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#77
#77
1 in 102 said:
A grand jury determines whether there is probable cause for a trial (think of it as 25% sure something might have happened). The prosecution has no duty to put forth evidence in favor of the defense. The defendant has no right to be present. It's not hard to indict someone given it's a one-sided story. Wait and see for the trial if they don't plea out.
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Probable cause by definition means that a reasonable person that when presented with a certain set of the facts and circumstances regarding the alleged crime would conclude that it's more proable than not that a crime has been committed. It is a legal standard that must be met before any arrest, search or seizure can occur.

For the Grand Jury to indict they must conclude that probable causes exist that a crime was committed.
 
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#78
#78
usfdv said:
When this started, I recall lots of people here saying, "I am waiting to see what the evidence says" and waiting to see if they'd be charged. I predict now it'll be something else. As is already happening by a few posters. News flash, people do not want to believe this kind of thing, I get that. But, to not believe it is absurd. Happens every day by people who others viewed as "such a nice person" therefore can't be true. Get over it.
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True, but it happens both ways. Unless you were there, or are on the jury and hear all the evidence, the correct position to hold is that of no opinion.
 
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#80
#80
Wtf did the fans expect? An indictment was going to happen regardless. That case could be rock solid or paper thin either way though this was ending in an indictment.
 
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#81
#81
DaddyChad said:
Wtf did the fans expect? An indictment was going to happen regardless. That case could be rock solid or paper thin either way though this was ending in an indictment.
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The backlash would have been massive without a true bill.
 
#82
#82
Well holy crap are we really going to have another thread where we debate the merits of the case?
 
#87
#87
daj2576 said:
Interesting story, thanks for the link.

I would also suggest a reading of "A Rush to Injustice" about the Duke Lacrosse team. It's terrifying.

By the way, if I recall correctly, the false victim at Duke is now serving a sentence for a later murder, apparently (and the DA was disbarred).

Again, none of this conversation is an indication that I am taking sides in the current case. As a law student, I am interested in these sorts of cases and in the way the media covers them.
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In your opinion, and again, all we have are our own opines - If the defense can show that AJ had prior contact with said victim (text,twit,etc.) and if any of that contact was initiated by said victim, and if the contact contained any "suggestive" behavior, do you believe an acquittal is in order?
 
#88
#88
KoachKletus said:
In your opinion, and again, all we have are our own opines - If the defense can show that AJ had prior contact with said victim (text,twit,etc.) and if any of that contact was initiated by said victim, and if the contact contained any "suggestive" behavior, do you believe an acquittal is in order?
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Is this a trick question? Am I walking into a trap? I'm trying not to pick sides... ;)

Technically (and generally) prior conduct means little to the law in regards to sex crimes. One partner can remove consent at any point during the sexual encounter. So, defendant could have had sex with victim 1000 times, and on the last second of the 1001st time, victim says no, and it is rape. It wouldn't matter if the victim had initiated the act, prepared for it, dressed up, decorated the room, and begged for it...at the instant consent is removed, it is a crime. That is the prosecution's argument.

On the other hand, there are 12 jurors who have to listen to and see the evidence. If that sort of evidence is presented, it is hard to filter the prior conduct/communication in any way other than continued consent. That is the defense argument.

Theoretically and philosophically it is admittedly hard to parse this dichotomy in a meaningful way. If two parties have a history of consensual sexual encounters, with evidence of communication and of consent (or initiation), what could change in that last instant to turn the whole thing non consensual without there being a massive change in the defendant's behavior, or some ill will on the victim's part? I think that is the conundrum that worries/complicates most people's perception.
 
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#89
#89
jkleno said:
If that was your daughter, I bet you would feel differently.
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Still what he is saying is correct. If a DA can't get an indictment it means the case was beyond paperthin. One sided affair when the DA presents their evidence. Basically an accusation and DNA evidence would likely meet the level of evidence needed to proceed to trial.
 
#90
#90
From reading the presentment, the allegation is both men had sex with one or both women, two ways. What the general public does NOT know is what physical evidence is there to negate the "consent" defense. That is the key to the case IMHO.
This is a big case not only for the young men and women involved, but also for the new female DA.
 
#91
#91
I hope the truth comes out either way. I just remember most of VN condemning people for mentioning AJ in the case, but would follow it with, "it's probably all Williams' fault!"
 
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#92
#92
This discussion reminds me how asinine it was that the cop in the Eric Gardner case didn't get indicted when there was video evidence. Kind of scary, imo
 
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#96
#96
Dont make too much of the former players testifying before the GJ; a subpoena can do that to anyone.....
 
#97
#97
GOVOLS 1 said:
That's right, keep believing just because they're UT players they aren't capable of doing something like this
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No ! Its called a freedom and as long as people don't stand and believe innocent until proven guilty, and take the stance you are... Your letting a freedom be taken away. Somehow I feel you have an Obama sticker next to your stick family on your Prius...
 
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#98
#98
vol81 said:
Dont make too much of the former players testifying before the GJ; a subpoena can do that to anyone.....
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And, if I recall correctly, you can't even assert your Vth amendment rights in a GJ hearing because technically, the GJ cannot deprive you of life, liberty, or property.

I would like to see someone assert their 1st amendment rights. If the Vth amendment protects against self incrimination, the 1st amendment also protects against compelled speech and association.
 
#99
#99
You do have the right to remain silent in a GJ proceeding. Only if the prosecutor grants immunity can one be compelled to testify. Rarely happens in a GJ proceeding. GJ proceedings are totally controlled by the DA. A defendant can demand to appear before a GJ to tell his side but this is very very very rare.
 
#100
#100
It's taken so long you'd think something was holding water. Otherwise I'd assume this would have been dismissed.

Given the circumstances in how this went down I think it will be difficult to convict with proof.

I don't know anything about this kind of stuff. Just thinking.

I'm glad it's moving forward one way or another.
 
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