Adams article

#226
#226
jakez4ut said:
i'm going to sound like a fulmer apologist, but at this point, i guess that's ok.

i would agree with you 100% if he was claiming that he was always successfull at what he describes his job to be.

he didn't. he only stated that was what he viewed his primary job to be. Also understanding that in the long run, he has very little control on how these kids actually turn out in the end, he obviously acknowledged that he hasn't always been successful in this venture.

what i take issue with, in this specific circumstance--the accusation and rebutle--is how some people are shocked and dismayed that Fulmer has the gaul to speak of when there have been success stories, with no reservation made for the fact that the one doing the accusing made a one sided judgement. And when that one sided judgement happens to include examples of grown men no longer officially affiliated with Fulmer or the program, the response to show the success story for the same circumstance should not be met with as much venom as it has been.

now, it can be debeated all day long whether or not he is too soft, or whether or not the rebutle was a sign of weakness etc.....but i for one have no problem with Fulmer coming out, in direct response to this, and basicallly saying "hey, wait a minute, while it's not exactly a secret about our failures, but you know, we have had a few successes as well, for instance.......".

let's be realistic, no one EVER hears about those. we all know the well chronicled history of every single transgression that dots our now infamous police blotter.

i guess i'd get a little pissed off too if i were in the same shoes.
Click to expand...

to keep your job dont you usually have to be successful at it?
 
#227
#227
rexvol said:
to keep your job dont you usually have to be successful at it?
Click to expand...

do you have 100% success rate at your job? Think of the thousands of young men he's dealt with and see it's a very low % that have been in a major incident in their lifetime.
 
#228
#228
utvolpj said:
do you have 100% success rate at your job? Think of the thousands of young men he's dealt with and see it's a very low % that have been in a major incident in their lifetime.
Click to expand...

good point, but I think you can only take the last few years into account since a whole lot of stuff never was reported in the past. Still, you make a good point.
 
#229
#229
Rex

Are you always successful at your job?

Do you always solve the problems of those to whom you preach?

Fulmer will be judged by the fans based on wins and loses but the kids who play for him might look at him a little differently.

I know you have an agenda but it seems like in your line of work you could push aside your hate to acknowledge that not every kid will be saved from themselves no matter who is doing the work. You do the best you can.
 
#230
#230
rexvol said:
to keep your job dont you usually have to be successful at it?
Click to expand...
if you're going to put the number of players he's coached that were successful members of society to the number of players that turned out the wrong way, i'd say that raito probably turns out pretty well for CPF.

that's the thing about establishing goals at work......very rarely are the goals set with an expectation of perfection.
 
#231
#231
rexvol said:
good point, but I think you can only take the last few years into account since a whole lot of stuff never was reported in the past. Still, you make a good point.
Click to expand...
now rex, that's awfully convenient.........as well as true. it's just now in the past 7-8 years we are all sitting here passing judgement, simply because knowleged is power. truth is, this stuff has been happening for a long time, unbeknownst to many of us.

the visibility does change things imo, and the administration should change to reflect that also, but it's highly unfair to say "we should only count the past few years". and it's also unfair to ONLY acknowledge the bad with absolutely no mention of the good. which is what happens far too often. everyone is force fed this stuff and your mind is basically made up for you.

i have many problems with CPF, and i'm not thrilled with the way some of these things have been hadled of late either, but the notion that CPF is not a man of character or that he has no integrity is not an issue i have with the man. and i for one am glad he got pissed off and made a public statement about it. maybe that'll carry over to the football season. we're likely going to need it.
 
#232
#232
vestvol98 said:
Rex

Are you always successful at your job?

Do you always solve the problems of those to whom you preach?

Fulmer will be judged by the fans based on wins and loses but the kids who play for him might look at him a little differently.

I know you have an agenda but it seems like in your line of work you could push aside your hate to acknowledge that not every kid will be saved from themselves no matter who is doing the work. You do the best you can.
Click to expand...

but now he doesnt want us judging him on that, in his own words, it's about mentoring young men. And by the way, you dont even know me, so dont toss around the hate word with regard to me.
 
#233
#233
utvolpj said:
we once had a dog that we trained and trained to be a hunter. He was so good in the backyard. Then he got let loose in the open field and had no clue what to do out there. The point is that once these guys are out of the confines of the UT program it's up to them to use what they've learned. To put the actions of a man, who hasn't been on campus in 3+ years, on his college coach is ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Fulmer's the one who said that his job is "helping young people grow to be well-adjusted, responsible adults." If that's the case, then what's wrong with evaluating the job he's doing by looking at how those people actually behave as adults? And if that's not the case -- which again, I don't think it is -- then why not cut the crap about molding young men and discipline the damn team?

And the Fulmer Cup was named by a gator blog. It truly means less than nothing
Click to expand...

Gator blog or not, it wouldn't have been named after Fulmer if there hadn't been a ton of discipline problems under Fulmer. They passed up BOBBY F. BOWDEN to go with Fulmer. That says a lot.
 
#234
#234
jakez4ut said:
now rex, that's awfully convenient.........as well as true. it's just now in the past 7-8 years we are all sitting here passing judgement, simply because knowleged is power. truth is, this stuff has been happening for a long time, unbeknownst to many of us.

the visibility does change things imo, and the administration should change to reflect that also, but it's highly unfair to say "we should only count the past few years". and it's also unfair to ONLY acknowledge the bad with absolutely no mention of the good. which is what happens far too often. everyone is force fed this stuff and your mind is basically made up for you.

i have many problems with CPF, and i'm not thrilled with the way some of these things have been hadled of late either, but the notion that CPF is not a man of character or that he has no integrity is not an issue i have with the man. and i for one am glad he got pissed off and made a public statement about it. maybe that'll carry over to the football season. we're likely going to need it.
Click to expand...


all Im really saying about Phil is that he cant say that his first job is mentoring young men without that statement bringing his player's behavior into the discussion. That being said, until the last few years I have always commended Phil for his team=family mentality.
 
#235
#235
rex I know you only from your post and they are sure not filled with love towrd Fulmer I can only judge you based on that
 
#236
#236
vestvol98 said:
rex I know you only from your post and they are sure not filled with love towrd Fulmer I can only judge you based on that
Click to expand...

I dont love the guy, but I certainly dont hate him. He brought us a NC when I thought I'd never live to see the day. Really, I commend Phil for what he's accomplished, but for whatever reason, it's over. Now, Hillbilly hates him.
 
#237
#237
jakez4ut said:
what i take issue with, in this specific circumstance--the accusation and rebutle--is how some people are shocked and dismayed that Fulmer has the gaul to speak of when there have been success stories, with no reservation made for the fact that the one doing the accusing made a one sided judgement. And when that one sided judgement happens to include examples of grown men no longer officially affiliated with Fulmer or the program, the response to show the success story for the same circumstance should not be met with as much venom as it has been.
Click to expand...

I thought Adams was way out of line to include his comments about former players in the original article, too. My position in this thread is that Fulmer has almost retroactively legitimized those comments, somehow, with his own comments about how his job is to mentor these kids and help them develop into responsible adults. That does not excuse Adams from being way out of line for what he wrote at the time, however.

I guess I'm just annoyed at the sanctimonious attitude of a coach who's had a problem with team discipline for most of his tenure. If building character is as important to Fulmer as he claims it is, then why does my alma mater have the soiled reputation it does?
 
#238
#238
jakez4ut said:
i have many problems with CPF, and i'm not thrilled with the way some of these things have been hadled of late either, but the notion that CPF is not a man of character or that he has no integrity is not an issue i have with the man. and i for one am glad he got pissed off and made a public statement about it. maybe that'll carry over to the football season. we're likely going to need it.
Click to expand...

I think he's a man of character and integrity. He just doesn't know how to instill discipline in his team, and I don't think he has the respect of the players. They like him, but ultimately they're not even a little afraid of him. He's like an overly indulgent parent.
 
#240
#240
Doesn't Phil get paid to coach football? If we were turning out 98% graduation rate with an 0-11 record, is he still there? I doubt it.

You'd think with the situation our football team is in he'd be spending his time doing other things than writting an essay in response to some freaking newspaper article.
 
#241
#241
Vercingetorix said:
I thought Adams was way out of line to include his comments about former players in the original article, too. My position in this thread is that Fulmer has almost retroactively legitimized those comments, somehow, with his own comments about how his job is to mentor these kids and help them develop into responsible adults. That does not excuse Adams from being way out of line for what he wrote at the time, however.

I guess I'm just annoyed at the sanctimonious attitude of a coach who's had a problem with team discipline for most of his tenure. If building character is as important to Fulmer as he claims it is, then why does my alma mater have the soiled reputation it does?
Click to expand...
just remember, you never get those statements by Fulmer w/out the article first...in this case, the chicken came before the egg.:thumbsup:

as to your 2nd point, that is completely valid, and why, at the very least, these types of questions should be asked.
 
#242
#242
rexvol said:
all Im really saying about Phil is that he cant say that his first job is mentoring young men without that statement bringing his player's behavior into the discussion. That being said, until the last few years I have always commended Phil for his team=family mentality.
Click to expand...
agreed. Adams brought out the bad examples, and Fulmer was more than happy to share at least one good one. my point is it can't be solely one sided, as Adams most certainly did.
 
#243
#243
jakez4ut said:
agreed. Adams brought out the bad examples, and Fulmer was more than happy to share at least one good one. my point is it can't be solely one sided, as Adams most certainly did.
Click to expand...

right, but we both know that John Adams got exactly the result he was going for
 
#245
#245
Was listening to a sports talk host today comment on CPF's rebuttle to the article. Well thought out and rang true as long as you don't actually follow the off the field issues as closely as most of us do. You can say the right things and hope for the best till you are blue in the face. Point is what are we doing to improve the image of the program? Ultimately, we are talking about taking a good hard look in the mirror at ourselves and then applying our own standards to the program that we support. I have and will always be a CPF supporter but I am foremost a UT fan and care very deeply about the reputation of Tennessee. Winning may need to take a backseat to character development (ie discipline) in the short run but would certainly pay dividends later. Clear lines need to be drawn in the sand that give these young men the opportunity to develop their character and improve their draft stock. If this kind of program doesn't appeal to a recruit then so be it. Now obviously this is painting with very broad strokes as the vast majority of student atheletes are great young folks that do us proud. I'm just the typical fan, want my cake and to eat it too (top ten program with good reputation). Problem is this doesn't taste like cake.......
 
#247
#247
Gary10ec1 said:
Was listening to a sports talk host today comment on CPF's rebuttle to the article. Well thought out and rang true as long as you don't actually follow the off the field issues as closely as most of us do. You can say the right things and hope for the best till you are blue in the face. Point is what are we doing to improve the image of the program? Ultimately, we are talking about taking a good hard look in the mirror at ourselves and then applying our own standards to the program that we support. I have and will always be a CPF supporter but I am foremost a UT fan and care very deeply about the reputation of Tennessee. Winning may need to take a backseat to character development (ie discipline) in the short run but would certainly pay dividends later. Clear lines need to be drawn in the sand that give these young men the opportunity to develop their character and improve their draft stock. If this kind of program doesn't appeal to a recruit then so be it. Now obviously this is painting with very broad strokes as the vast majority of student atheletes are great young folks that do us proud. I'm just the typical fan, want my cake and to eat it too (top ten program with good reputation). Problem is this doesn't taste like cake.......
Click to expand...

What's it taste like?
 
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top