ACC School Reportedly is Attempting to Join the SEC in the ‘Near Future’

[Nouveaux]

UNC and UVA make the most sense. They're the top schools in their state and they bring new states to the conference. NCSt and VT are probably better fits culturally but they don't bring near the prestige of the other two. Clemson and FSU/Miami bring nothing unique to the conference.

 

[TNnative]

Memphis goes to the ACC, UNC comes to the SEC, and Missouri goes..... does anyone really care where Missouri goes?

Had you said Vanderbilt instead of Missouri? I mean yeah, 5 star academics, but -1 star athletics (aside from baseball)

 

[dobre_shunka]

UNC itself cannot decide change conferences. The NC university system board gave themselves sole and final authority on conference moves.

UNC Chapel Hill probably has the juice to make the board do what they want. However that board is also responsible for NCSU which could be left high and dry if Chapel Hill leaves the ACC which would likely start the collapse of the ACC.

 

[DaddyChad]

Always follow the money and the money is TV markets. Which schools would move and have the most to offer the conference?

 

[RDU VOL#14]

UNC itself cannot decide change conferences. The NC university system board gave themselves sole and final authority on conference moves.

UNC Chapel Hill probably has the juice to make the board do what they want. However that board is also responsible for NCSU which could be left high and dry if Chapel Hill leaves the ACC which would likely start the collapse of the ACC.

UNC is the flagship school for the entire ACC. If it goes, the conference will collapse or become a shell of itself like the PAC 12. Have ECU, App and Coastal join or something crazy like that

 

[VOLLeeann]

North Carolina

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[onevol74]

I don’t want the SEC to expand at all-I want the conference to shrink, instead. But if we must expand…. Let’s bring Georgia Tech back (they never should’ve left anyway), and bring the Hokies aboard (wish they’d come instead of Mizzou). To hell with the Heels, Noles, Clemson and Duke. Texas and OU are bad enough, the last thing we need are any of those 4.

The reason GT left was Bama cheating and the rest of the conference not doing anything about it. They were once one of our traditional rivals.

 

[stolitonic]

The reason GT left was Bama cheating and the rest of the conference not doing anything about it. They were once one of our traditional rivals.

Tech left the SEC as they knew in general that they weren't gonna be able to keep up. At the time Tech left, the only majors Tech offered were engineering/science based majors. Management, etc was added in the 80s and would be what athletes majored in while I was there. I believe now it is theoretically possible to graduate Tech with a history, English, etc degree. I remember early in my career there the school achieving their first graduate of the English program lol. The professors were busy patting themselves on the back for quite a while



GT was simply going to become another punching bag like Candy if they had stayed in the SEC as they could no longer attract top of the line talent due to academics.



That was from the lips of Bobby Dodd himself in the 80s. I'm sure there were small disputes with individual schools as you reference, but the primary driver was changing dynamics in the football landscape. Big was getting bigger already back in those days

 

[dobre_shunka]

Interesting comments regarding UNC to SEC.

UNC's SEC Dreams Crushed as Belichick Sparks Chaos

"You don’t want to go to the SEC and get your doors blown off and lose an entire generation basically of football fans because… maybe UNC would be lucky to go 7–6 with an SEC schedule.” According to Hale, the fear of being football roadkill is real, and it’s one of the major reasons UNC’s administration views the Big Ten as a better long-term fit.

UNC’s donor culture, often stereotyped as the “wine and cheese crowd”, as another reason for leaning toward the Big Ten. “These are more classical football fans,” Hale said. “They think they’re above a lot of people… They still view very much like the prestige, the academics.”

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Interesting comments regarding UNC to SEC.

UNC's SEC Dreams Crushed as Belichick Sparks Chaos

"You don’t want to go to the SEC and get your doors blown off and lose an entire generation basically of football fans because… maybe UNC would be lucky to go 7–6 with an SEC schedule.” According to Hale, the fear of being football roadkill is real, and it’s one of the major reasons UNC’s administration views the Big Ten as a better long-term fit.

UNC’s donor culture, often stereotyped as the “wine and cheese crowd”, as another reason for leaning toward the Big Ten. “These are more classical football fans,” Hale said. “They think they’re above a lot of people… They still view very much like the prestige, the academics.”

David Hale echos everything that I’ve said about the Heels in this forum for a long time. Yes, there are some very passionate UNC fans out there that believe they can go beyond being a “sleeping giant”, but the problem is that @Pennheel and others like him aren’t the majority. If they were, UNC’s football program would be in a better place. Just like Hale says in the article, I’ve said I thought that I don’t think the $ people and the university faculty have the stomach for SEC football, bc they see themselves above it. If UNC isn’t an ACC school they are one of those schools that view themselves as a “Public Ivy”, like a UVA, Wisconsin, Michigan, Cal and should align more closely with the B1G.

 

[Flogballs]

Always follow the money and the money is TV markets. Which schools would move and have the most to offer the conference?

I am skeptical about the power of traditional cable markets when viewers can stream any game they want these days… but whatever the reality of that situation I think Clemson, FSU, Miami bring the most eyes

 

[05_never_again]

David Hale echos everything that I’ve said about the Heels in this forum for a long time. Yes, there are some very passionate UNC fans out there that believe they can go beyond being a “sleeping giant”, but the problem is that @Pennheel and others like him aren’t the majority. If they were, UNC’s football program would be in a better place. Just like Hale says in the article, I’ve said I thought that I don’t think the $ people and the university faculty have the stomach for SEC football, bc they see themselves above it. If UNC isn’t an ACC school they are one of those schools that view themselves as a “Public Ivy”, like a UVA, Wisconsin, Michigan, Cal and should align more closely with the B1G.

I don't think the issue is that UNC couldn't be great at football; I think the issue is that they don't want to do what would be required in order to do so.

Don't have the stomach for it as you said, they perceive too many risks (what if they dedicated a ton of resources towards it and got better, but still couldn't hang with upper echelon SEC teams), despite the potential financial windfall their booster base/alums just aren't passionate enough about football, what if basketball suffered because they took their eye off of it, etc.

UNC is a great football head coaching job though. They're currently paying a coach $10m/year and will be OK if he wins 8 games with an ACC schedule.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

I don't think the issue is that UNC couldn't be great at football; I think the issue is that they don't want to do what would be required in order to do so.

Don't have the stomach for it as you said, they perceive too many risks (what if they dedicated a ton of resources towards it and got better, but still couldn't hang with upper echelon SEC teams), despite the potential financial windfall their booster base/alums just aren't passionate enough about football, what if basketball suffered because they took their eye off of it, etc.

This is something they’re struggling with right now. They just paid for Belichick, his staff, his needs and wants to be successful and then you have UNC’s NIL for basketball, which is reportedly $14 million. A lot of people’s opinion, mine included, doesn’t see UNC being a top 5 team in the ACC this season. Personally, I think they’re throwing that # out to say that they gave Hubert all the resources to be successful, but also knowing that they won’t be up to the Carolina standard and justify his termination. Where do they go now if/when they fire Hubert this season? I honestly they’re seeing the tea leaves and they don’t like what they’re seeing . Duke is outspending them and out performing them, Will Wade will legitimately make NC State relevant right away, within 2 years. UNC is behind right now, which is why they may be leaking stuff about leaving.

 

[GVF]

Tech left the SEC as they knew in general that they weren't gonna be able to keep up. At the time Tech left, the only majors Tech offered were engineering/science based majors. Management, etc was added in the 80s and would be what athletes majored in while I was there. I believe now it is theoretically possible to graduate Tech with a history, English, etc degree. I remember early in my career there the school achieving their first graduate of the English program lol. The professors were busy patting themselves on the back for quite a while



GT was simply going to become another punching bag like Candy if they had stayed in the SEC as they could no longer attract top of the line talent due to academics.



That was from the lips of Bobby Dodd himself in the 80s. I'm sure there were small disputes with individual schools as you reference, but the primary driver was changing dynamics in the football landscape. Big was getting bigger already back in those days

Up until they left they left the SEC as a founding member, GT was a top program. 5 SEC titles at the time. Two incidents that ultimately drove GT to leave are pretty well documented. The Bryant/Dodd personal relationship soured over a couple years after a Bama player intentionally shattered a GT players jaw and Bear did nothing about about. And GT was against the then proposed 140 rule that would limit total scholarships in football and basketball combined to 140 for the conference. Dodd did not want to revoke scholly's and was voting against it. Bear promised him he would too, then failed to show for the vote and it passed. That was last straw for Dodd at that point. And their friendship. They were voted on for re-entry in '75 but Ole Miss and Miss St blocked it cause Dodd was publically against having to travel to play such Mississippi schools that were so far beneath the GT brand in his mind.

Ironically there were alot of alumni and others at the time that understood what leaving hte SEC would mean, and professed that GT athletics, primarily football, would never recover from leaving the SEC. And they were right. Dodd was a piece of work himself. He thought they were the ND of the south. The man they honor for good reasons is also the man that destroyed them.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Up until they left they left the SEC as a founding member, GT was a top program. 5 SEC titles at the time. Two incidents that ultimately drove GT to leave are pretty well documented. The Bryant/Dodd personal relationship soured over a couple years after a Bama player intentionally shattered a GT players jaw and Bear did nothing about about. And GT was against the then proposed 140 rule that would limit total scholarships in football and basketball combined to 140 for the conference. Dodd did not want to revoke scholly's and was voting against it. Bear promised him he would too, then failed to show for the vote and it passed. That was last straw for Dodd at that point. And their friendship. They were voted on for re-entry in '75 but Ole Miss and Miss St blocked it cause Dodd was publically against having to travel to play such Mississippi schools that were so far beneath the GT brand in his mind.

Ironically there were alot of alumni and others at the time that understood what leaving hte SEC would mean, and professed that GT athletics, primarily football, would never recover from leaving the SEC. And they were right. Dodd was a piece of work himself. He thought they were the ND of the south. The man they honor for good reasons is also the man that destroyed them.

GA Tech is a great school and one of closest friends taught there but realistically, they add nothing to the SEC that matters. All the GA eyeballs see dawg red on Saturday.

UNC and Duke sew up NC. UVA and VTech sew up VA. Think TV money. Don't think tradition. Don't think fit. Don't think academics. Don't think geographic footprint.

Think money. Doing anything else at the conference expansion level means you don't understand what college football is now.

 

[GVF]

GA Tech is a great school and one of closest friends taught there but realistically, they add nothing to the SEC that matters. All the GA eyeballs see dawg red on Saturday.

UNC and Duke sew up NC. UVA and VTech sew up VA. Think TV money. Don't think tradition. Don't think fit. Don't think academics. Don't think geographic footprint.

Think money. Doing anything else at the conference expansion level means you don't understand what college football is now.

Yep. In today's college world a return of GT only benefits GT, but only just so much. They'd never be able to recapture the level of GT football they had when they left in '64. They've now been gone roughly 6 decades verses a founding member barely over 3 decades. The majority of hte GT fanbase is relegated to alumni, and half of them are likely closet dawgs. I used to have a white cotton GT rag style hat that looked really good. Wore it alot cause it looked good, but only when I rarely did not have my orange UT hat on of the same style. Loved those two hats cause of how they wore. I think my now wife hid those from me at one point cause of how nasty they became. No telling how many wash cyles in the dish washer they survived just to keep them wearable. Most of my friends around town at the time knew it was me in the black Toyo 4x cause they could see that orange hat. Never really wore too much dawg stuff though. Rather odd, cause I grew up south of Motor speedway about 45 minutes from Athens and UGA was my dads only employer his entire working life. I do give respect that UGA gave him a healthy world wide science/ag career and provided us everything we had. But from about 8th grade on when I really got into college football it was all Vols due to UT recruiting our HS heavily and Gault was my HS idol cause I wanted to be that fast and ran track cause of him. (Dad was a UT grad school alum and UGA PhD alum).

Best thing I can say for UGA is that if you want an Ag career, there's very few better places to get your PhD in the field. Step son is an ABAC alum with a UGA masters in the field. Maybe Auburn, NC State or Texas A&M would be close. Bama A&M also a good choice atleast a few decades ago.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yep. In today's college world a return of GT only benefits GT, but only just so much. They'd never be able to recapture the level of GT football they had when they left in '64. They've now been gone roughly 6 decades verses a founding member barely over 3 decades. The majority of hte GT fanbase is relegated to alumni, and half of them are likely closet dawgs. I used to have a white cotton GT rag style hat that looked really good. Wore it alot cause it looked good, but only when I rarely did not have my orange UT hat on of the same style. Loved those two hats cause of how they wore. I think my now wife hid those from me at one point cause of how nasty they became. No telling how many wash cyles in the dish washer they survived just to keep them wearable. Most of my friends around town at the time knew it was me in the black Toyo 4x cause they could see that orange hat. Never really wore too much dawg stuff though. Rather odd, cause I grew up south of Motor speedway about 45 minutes from Athens and UGA was my dads only employer his entire working life. I do give respect that UGA gave him a healthy world wide science/ag career and provided us everything we had. But from about 8th grade on when I really got into college football it was all Vols due to UT recruiting our HS heavily and Gault was my HS idol cause I wanted to be that fast and ran track cause of him. (Dad was a UT grad school alum and UGA PhD alum).

Best thing I can say for UGA is that if you want an Ag career, there's very few better places to get your PhD in the field. Step son is an ABAC alum with a UGA masters in the field. Maybe Auburn, NC State or Texas A&M would be close. Bama A&M also a good choice atleast a few decades ago.

It's really a great school and another friend has either a masters in avian medicine from GA and PhD from Missouri or vice versa. There are top tier schools in the SEC besides Vandy.

GT is special but like Sewanee they aren't an SEC school. They're not really an ACC school, IMO.

There's not a dang thing wrong with your school being A SCHOOL. We may be fans of athletics but in the end most people who attend UT never make a living from their athletic career despite it being live or die on VN.

It's so skewed now to be a serious SEC athletic power, the education is way way way way in the background. Leave GT alone. They educate, not entertain...... and should be proud of that.

 

[GVF]

It's really a great school and another friend has either a masters in avian medicine from GA and PhD from Missouri or vice versa. There are top tier schools in the SEC besides Vandy.

GT is special but like Sewanee they aren't an SEC school. They're not really an ACC school, IMO.

There's not a dang thing wrong with your school being A SCHOOL. We may be fans of athletics but in the end most people who attend UT never make a living from their athletic career despite it being live or die on VN.

It's so skewed now to be a serious SEC athletic power, the education is way way way way in the background. Leave GT alone. They educate, not entertain...... and should be proud of that.

Yeah. Only two places I'd ever reccommend an engineering or computer related stuff in the south are GT and TnTech. TnTech very very rarely has a spring ENG or Computer Sci/STEM grad still looking for job placement past Xmas break. Or nursing BA for that matter. UT is a pretty good ENG school and Ag up to Masters level, but unless going for the aeronautical angle I'd prob still opt TnTech. And UT has a good Business school. UGA has worldclass AG stuff, as well as a strong Business, Law and Vet program. Really though, if you dig into it and do your homework. SEC schools have some really strong programs outside of sports. Just depends on what you want to do to where you choose to go if you want the SEC experience in general. I'd put an Ole Miss business or law degree up against anyone. And if you're not into the big campuses and want a degree with some salt to it, TnTech is huge value to expense and are top tier in the south in ENG/Sciences and Nursing. Secong only to GT still in ENG and it's pretty darn close. Trevecca and Lipscomb are good choices in the Nashville area as well. Trevecca has a really nice Physician Asst program.

Wholly agree that Vandy is not the only SEC academic choice.

My son is classed as a SR at TnTech in BioChem though he actually has two years of classes left (On 4th major which bumped him out 2 years graduating but better that he found what he liked more than graduating in 4). He's setting himself up nice. Wrote and filed his own grant to get paid for doing summer research for a prof having something to do with some space compound deconstructing work. Proved it out about mid-summer and gets to go to Orlando in October to present. All that on his resume. Not bad for a HS Footballer/Baseballer that knew he wouldn't go pro so retired after HS and chased the books. It did take him a bit to find what he liked though so he'd quit underacheiving on the brain God gave him.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yeah. Only two places I'd ever reccommend an engineering or computer related stuff in the south are GT and TnTech. TnTech very very rarely has a spring ENG or Computer Sci/STEM grad still looking for job placement past Xmas break. Or nursing BA for that matter. UT is a pretty good ENG school and Ag up to Masters level, but unless going for the aeronautical angle I'd prob still opt TnTech. And UT has a good Business school. UGA has worldclass AG stuff, as well as a strong Business, Law and Vet program. Really though, if you dig into it and do your homework. SEC schools have some really strong programs outside of sports. Just depends on what you want to do to where you choose to go if you want the SEC experience in general. I'd put an Ole Miss business or law degree up against anyone. And if you're not into the big campuses and want a degree with some salt to it, TnTech is huge value to expense and are top tier in the south in ENG/Sciences and Nursing. Secong only to GT still in ENG and it's pretty darn close. Trevecca and Lipscomb are good choices in the Nashville area as well. Trevecca has a really nice Physician Asst program.

Wholly agree that Vandy is not the only SEC academic choice.

My son is classed as a SR at TnTech in BioChem though he actually has two years of classes left (On 4th major which bumped him out 2 years graduating but better that he found what he liked more than graduating in 4). He's setting himself up nice. Wrote and filed his own grant to get paid for doing summer research for a prof having something to do with some space compound deconstructing work. Proved it out about mid-summer and gets to go to Orlando in October to present. All that on his resume. Not bad for a HS Footballer/Baseballer that knew he wouldn't go pro so retired after HS and chased the books. It did take him a bit to find what he liked though so he'd quit underacheiving on the brain God gave him.

There's little wrong with most SEC schools academically and, grudgingly, TX brings quite a bit to the table. I agree with TN Tech not getting the props it deserves and year after year turning out students who excel and are prepared for their career or grad work.

I've got a soft spot for GT because I got to hang out with my buddy there and hear some of the faculty chatter over box wine and cheese. They had a love-hate with athletics and pretty much anything that wasn't engineering at GT but that was a few years ago now. GT walks the line pretty well between not letting their athletic profile get "out of hand" and not being a complete doormat in the ACC. I need to get down there. There was this little joint just north of campus that wants to clog my arteries a little more. I think it's Silver Skillet. Good times but it may be gone now.

 

[GVF]

There's little wrong with most SEC schools academically and, grudgingly, TX brings quite a bit to the table. I agree with TN Tech not getting the props it deserves and year after year turning out students who excel and are prepared for their career or grad work.

I've got a soft spot for GT because I got to hang out with my buddy there and hear some of the faculty chatter over box wine and cheese. They had a love-hate with athletics and pretty much anything that wasn't engineering at GT but that was a few years ago now. GT walks the line pretty well between not letting their athletic profile get "out of hand" and not being a complete doormat in the ACC. I need to get down there. There was this little joint just north of campus that wants to clog my arteries a little more. I think it's Silver Skillet. Good times but it may be gone now.

Silver Skillet was legendary as I recall.

Our HS had alot of grads in my time go to GT. Back in my day, it was the only choice in GA if you wanted to stay home and get a top notch textile degree without going to a Carolina school. On par if not better than NC State for textiles. My hometown was headquarters for Dundee Mills (predominate stake holder in institutional towels in the day) so alot of our grads would go to GT for textiles and come back home to work for Dundee.

 

[05_never_again]

GA Tech is a great school and one of closest friends taught there but realistically, they add nothing to the SEC that matters. All the GA eyeballs see dawg red on Saturday.

UNC and Duke sew up NC. UVA and VTech sew up VA. Think TV money. Don't think tradition. Don't think fit. Don't think academics. Don't think geographic footprint.

Think money. Doing anything else at the conference expansion level means you don't understand what college football is now.

While I agree with that assessment, how much of the reason for that is because they left the SEC ~65 years ago? They were a good, successful SEC program before leaving.

 

[05_never_again]

Up until they left they left the SEC as a founding member, GT was a top program. 5 SEC titles at the time. Two incidents that ultimately drove GT to leave are pretty well documented. The Bryant/Dodd personal relationship soured over a couple years after a Bama player intentionally shattered a GT players jaw and Bear did nothing about about. And GT was against the then proposed 140 rule that would limit total scholarships in football and basketball combined to 140 for the conference. Dodd did not want to revoke scholly's and was voting against it. Bear promised him he would too, then failed to show for the vote and it passed. That was last straw for Dodd at that point. And their friendship. They were voted on for re-entry in '75 but Ole Miss and Miss St blocked it cause Dodd was publically against having to travel to play such Mississippi schools that were so far beneath the GT brand in his mind.

Ironically there were alot of alumni and others at the time that understood what leaving hte SEC would mean, and professed that GT athletics, primarily football, would never recover from leaving the SEC. And they were right. Dodd was a piece of work himself. He thought they were the ND of the south. The man they honor for good reasons is also the man that destroyed them.

What's funny is that when GT tried to get back in Alabama and Bear was a proponent of bringing them back but basically the entire rest of the conference said no.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

While I agree with that assessment, how much of the reason for that is because they left the SEC ~65 years ago? They were a good, successful SEC program before leaving.

GA Tech chose to emphasize education when the SEC chose to emphasize becoming an athletic juggernaut. It's not that schools can't do both but it's not easy to be a world class primarily engineering school AND an SEC athletic school.

Since they left, they've broadened their curriculum a little but they'd have been worse than Vandy by a lot of they'd maintained their narrowly focused academic curriculum and tried to stay in the SEC.

Bear, through liquor and ice and his made for TV gruff persona, saw that SEC football was going to be big entertainment and mean big money for the schools. GA Tech would've, with Vandy, lent some "see, we're still schools" clout to the illiterate talent he was pumping out of Bama.

 

[GVF]

What's funny is that when GT tried to get back in Alabama and Bear was a proponent of bringing them back but basically the entire rest of the conference said no.

Dodd was quite uppity publically about having to travel to play the mississippi schools and some others. He thought they were inferior to the GT brand as he perceived it. I think voting was close, but he was very pointed about having to play UM and MsSt. and their votes definitely kept GT out. Dodd truly thought the GT brand was on par with the ND brand back then. Bears vote was likely to try and mend fences with an old friend who he screwed over a few times before they left. Based on some things he did to Dodd that were factors in GT pulling out as well as ending a friendship, I doubt Bear would have said yes if he thought it really meant they got back in.

 

[GVF]

GA Tech chose to emphasize education when the SEC chose to emphasize becoming an athletic juggernaut. It's not that schools can't do both but it's not easy to be a world class primarily engineering school AND an SEC athletic school.

Since they left, they've broadened their curriculum a little but they'd have been worse than Vandy by a lot of they'd maintained their narrowly focused academic curriculum and tried to stay in the SEC.

Bear, through liquor and ice and his made for TV gruff persona, saw that SEC football was going to be big entertainment and mean big money for the schools. GA Tech would've, with Vandy, lent some "see, we're still schools" clout to the illiterate talent he was pumping out of Bama.

That Prop 140 would have caused him to take scholly's away from some players that were getting a GT education even though they never got a piece of dirt on the uniform ouside practice. And they probably wouldn't have been able to stay in school on their own. So, he did put schooling high on his list above many things. He was arrogant in his public views of GT verses the others, but he did value giving his guys a free ride to get their degree. The sound bite is that many in the university and many alumni knew that'd kill GT athletics too, and it did, so there was a sizeable GT base that was also quite proud of how good they were then. Reality is, had they stayed or got back in, without a change of vision, GT would have been just under Vandy in the classroom, and just above Vandy on the field. They were just entering the era when they would have dove to hte bottom had they stayed. Dodd had alot of pull and was the sole driver of that bus. Conversely, MsSt is well under Vandy in the classroom and only marginally better on the field historically IMO. (Outide of Baseball). So, it's no promise of being a champion in the SEC if you try the juggernaut route.