A valuable lesson Tennessee has yet to learn

#26
#26
UTFranklinVol said:
whenever calls come to fire the coach there are many grown @ss men on this board that literally sh!t themselves with fear.

Why? Its because of the dumb way that Tennessee will let a coach hang around until they completely ruin the program to an unfixable level before they let them walk and make the program so undesirable that nobody will coach here. when in reality the only thing that matters is not who the coach is but what is the current state of the program. you need to preserve that.

what do Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia and LSU all have in common? they all made coaching transitions one way or another BEFORE the program was a disaster.

and did they make splash hires?

well Bama hires Deboer who was almost a nobody with just 3 years HC experience. those fans don't even like him. Tennessee fans never would not have considered this a splash hire for Tennessee.

Georgia hired a DC with no head coaching experience. Basically Jeremy Pruitt 1.0. not a splash hire at the time.

OSU hired an assistant coach from within the program that nobody outside of OSU had ever even heard of.

what was far far far more important than who got hired is the fact that the program was NOT a disaster. it was NOT devoid of talent. that's because the coaching transition was allowed to happen BEFORE the coach ran the program into a ditch.

so people always love to say "oh yeah smart guy well who is your list of replacements?" and then they will act like they know something and start to disprove all your choices.

But I think the next splash hire in college football is not Lane Kiffin to LSU. its going to be a guy almost nobody has ever heard of, but he will be given the keys to a fully loaded team that isn't a disaster. and he will make a name for himself and only later will idiots call it a splash hire.

the key to making it to the elite level of college football is having lots and lots and lots of NIL money and not being afraid of change as long as that change happens BEFORE you become a 6-6 football team.

Regardless of who Heupel fires or hires for next year, we will lose a minimum of 4 games next year. that's a practical guarantee.

Tennessee won't win any SEC titles or national titles until they learn the lesson above.
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I agree. We will lose at least 4 next year
 
#28
#28
Tnphil said:
It's cult like the way some folks latch onto a coach. These multi millionaire coaches wouldn't give any of them the time of day. And these coaches will leave over more money and a better contract in a heartbeat. Really odd how emotional some folks get if anything negative is said about these overpaid PE teachers.
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Correct 💯
 
#29
#29
Unfortunately this trend of firing coaches will only get worse. For instance ,DeBoor could have easily lost 2 SEC games. Combine that with the Fl St disaster, Bama may have been looking as well. Same for Oklahoma, I believe Venables was on the hot seat this year. Now they are in the playoffs. I just heard KY fired Stoops.

NIL has transformed college football to a wanna be semi pro football league with NO rules. You have Vandy AND Indiana having their best season in program history, the same year. Indiana and Texas Tech in the top 5. The only sure fire coach in the SEC now is Kirby and he had to pull a miracle out of his ass in Knoxville and could have lost another close game or two this year. I think the days of a team in the SEC or Big 10 dominating year after year may be much harder due to NIL. You add another game to the SEC schedule next year, somebody has to lose, who gets fired next year?

I said in another thread that the best hire may be Va Tech. Not that Franklin is another Saban or Meyer, but VT is in a very weak conference, getting into the playoff with the NIL money VT has promised Franklin may convince Franklin that getting out of Penn St was a blessing in disguise.
 
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#31
#31
UTFranklinVol said:
whenever calls come to fire the coach there are many grown @ss men on this board that literally sh!t themselves with fear.

Why? Its because of the ****** way that Tennessee will let a coach hang around until they completely ruin the program to an unfixable level before they let them walk and make the program so undesirable that nobody will coach here. when in reality the only thing that matters is not who the coach is but what is the current state of the program. you need to preserve that.

what do Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia and LSU all have in common? they all made coaching transitions one way or another BEFORE the program was a disaster.

and did they make splash hires?

well Bama hires Deboer who was almost a nobody with just 3 years HC experience. those fans don't even like him. Tennessee fans never would not have considered this a splash hire for Tennessee.

Georgia hired a DC with no head coaching experience. Basically Jeremy Pruitt 1.0. not a splash hire at the time.

OSU hired an assistant coach from within the program that nobody outside of OSU had ever even heard of.

what was far far far more important than who got hired is the fact that the program was NOT a disaster. it was NOT devoid of talent. that's because the coaching transition was allowed to happen BEFORE the coach ran the program into a ditch.

so people always love to say "oh yeah smart guy well who is your list of replacements?" and then they will act like they know something and start to disprove all your choices.

But I think the next splash hire in college football is not Lane Kiffin to LSU. its going to be a guy almost nobody has ever heard of, but he will be given the keys to a fully loaded team that isn't a disaster. and he will make a name for himself and only later will idiots call it a splash hire.

the key to making it to the elite level of college football is having lots and lots and lots of NIL money and not being afraid of change as long as that change happens BEFORE you become a 6-6 football team.

Regardless of who Heupel fires or hires for next year, we will lose a minimum of 4 games next year. that's a practical guarantee.

Tennessee won't win any SEC titles or national titles until they learn the lesson above.
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The notion I'm seeing you put out here is:

Get a coach to build your program to where it's very strong then fire him because he doesn't launch you over the hump to a Natty THEN hire a hungry unknown coach who will lead you to that Natty.

That's supposedly logical? Why?
 
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#32
#32
Voltopia said:
I don't know, it looks to me like Alabama made a lot of "******" coaching decisions too, and had just as much of a habit of waiting until they had a "wheels off the bus" season as anyone else. Both Dubose and Shula had a pooped-their-pants season before getting axed.

View attachment 794345
Also, the same genius AD that hired Dennis "Fifth-Choice-ione," Mike Price, and Mike Shula, also hired Nick Saban. Funny how that stuff works, sometimes.
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People tend to forget that every Bama fan in the state of Alabama should take up $ and send Rich Rod’s wife a million dollar condo in Gulf Shores. If she had not objected to living in Tuscaloosa, Saban would have never been hired by Bama. Rich Rod was all but going to be the next Bama coach after they canned Shula. His wife threw a fit and he declined the job.
 
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#33
#33
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The notion I'm seeing you put out here is:

Get a coach to build your program to where it's very strong then fire him because he doesn't launch you over the hump to a Natty THEN hire a hungry unknown coach who will lead you to that Natty.

That's supposedly logical? Why?
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it doesn't have to be an unknown coach but it doesn't have to be a supposed "splash" hire.

the whole point is never let the program get as bad at Tennessee was after Dooley. never ever let it get that bad. cut bait way faster.
 
#34
#34
camp_steveo said:
oNe MoRe YeAr


😂

I'm with you 💯

The only question is, did Heupel get enough time to truly rebuild the program, and if so, what has he done with it.

I think he deserves another year, but next year's schedule is trial by fire. Good luck coach. You're gonna need it.
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He’ll get another year. Probably 2. But regression and same sloppy was football is not what you want to see in year 5.
 
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#36
#36
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The notion I'm seeing you put out here is:

Get a coach to build your program to where it's very strong then fire him because he doesn't launch you over the hump to a Natty THEN hire a hungry unknown coach who will lead you to that Natty.

That's supposedly logical? Why?
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There is no right answer. The logical answer on the other side of the spectrum is…. “You’re not supposed to get rid of a mediocre coach until you’ve found the next guaranteed natty winner”. The truth is that doesn’t exist. There is no guarantee with any coach. There was no guarantee when bama got saban, no guarantee with Kirby at Ga, no guarantee with Day at OSU, etc.

The point the poster is making is you either live in mediocrity and possibly decline or you eventually make the leap. There is no guarantee it works.

Furthermore, we are NEVER getting a “splash” hire. Never. This program isn’t a top 1-3 destination for a “splash” hire. Some coach that already has a natty at OSU, bama, etc is NEVER packing up shop to come coach at TN. So unless you consider a “splash” someone like maybe IU coach or something of that nature, it’s never happening here.
 
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#37
#37
UTFranklinVol said:
it doesn't have to be an unknown coach but it doesn't have to be a supposed "splash" hire.

the whole point is never let the program get as bad at Tennessee was after Dooley. never ever let it get that bad. cut bait way faster.
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Sure, but knowing when "this guy isn't going to get us there" isn't easy when they've built up your program to a solid level.

I get 8-4 stagnation can be a real thing but so can trading down with coaches instead of up.
 
#38
#38
vols 30 said:
Speaking of learning a lesson .

How did the coaching hires go after Fulmer left?i it went great he is the darling of College football.. He just decided to leave ..But the search was very successful.. Now after he left it wasnt good , nor after the next ad hired a ****** coach ,then fulmer hires another ****** coach ..And we are here seeing the same signs we saw from our past coaches that gave us pause happening with our current coach ..How about we dont pause and do something about it before we in the tank again ...
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#39
#39
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Sure, but knowing when "this guy isn't going to get us there" isn't easy when they've built up your program to a solid level.

I get 8-4 stagnation can be a real thing but so can trading down with coaches instead of up.
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Brother if your going down does it really matter how fast you get to the bottom?

Pull the parachute cord
 
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#40
#40
EastTNVol6240 said:
There is no right answer. The logical answer on the other side of the spectrum is…. “You’re not supposed to get rid of a mediocre coach until you’ve found the next guaranteed natty winner”. The truth is that doesn’t exist. There is no guarantee with any coach. There was no guarantee when bama got saban, no guarantee with Kirby at Ga, no guarantee with Day at OSU, etc.

The point the poster is making is you either live in mediocrity and possibly decline or you eventually make the leap. There is no guarantee it works.

Furthermore, we are NEVER getting a “splash” hire. Never. This program isn’t a top 1-3 destination for a “splash” hire. Some coach that already has a natty at OSU, bama, etc is NEVER packing up shop to come coach at TN. So unless you consider a “splash” someone like maybe IU coach or something of that nature, it’s never happening here.
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As I said in another post, I understand a program can plateau and a coach can't push it further but you can also push the program DOWN with a new hire.

As for UT, if we're NOT a "destination" then it's unlikely we'll ever get enough of the elite talent nor the elite coach to push us over the hump to the Natty level. 1998 didn't happen in a vacuum. We had become a "destination" for talent.

Often, that "destination" designation is tied to the current coach. Elite players want to play for an elite coach.

If you terminate that coach, your "destination" status is diminished.
 
#42
#42
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
As I said in another post, I understand a program can plateau and a coach can't push it further but you can also push the program DOWN with a new hire.

As for UT, if we're NOT a "destination" then it's unlikely we'll ever get enough of the elite talent nor the elite coach to push us over the hump to the Natty level. 1998 didn't happen in a vacuum. We had become a "destination" for talent.

Often, that "destination" designation is tied to the current coach. Elite players want to play for an elite coach.

If you terminate that coach, your "destination" status is diminished.
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I agree with most of that. I see both sides. Abd you may be right, if we can’t get more serious about NIL, and paying those splash hires, maybe it’s never an option here?

You often hear the words “players coach” and I’m sure Heupel is one. I get that vibe from him. Those coaches are great in some aspects, but you often need someone around that coach that isn’t the “nice guy”. I think we’re lacking that. If I was a young, hungry 20 year old trying to push through to get to the league, I’d want to play for the fiery coach with a tight ship winning. We don’t have the winning, and I’ve never seen any fire from Heup.

I appreciate Heup bringing us back to relevance, but do question his ceiling after that. Either way, I do think he will get another couple years for us to see how it pans out. Yea we’re mad and emotional, but a few angry VN posters ain’t getting him fired. We will see what changes he makes….
 
#44
#44
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not sure how your life has gone but mine has ups and downs.

If I bailed on a career every time it dipped I'd have started over a lot. Peas and carrots. Every year is not an up year.
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but I was in corporate America for 20 years. if a company sees a leader as not having what it takes to push forward and they know what they will deliver won't be enough they will absolutely cut them loose and give someone else a chance.
 
#45
#45
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
As I said in another post, I understand a program can plateau and a coach can't push it further but you can also push the program DOWN with a new hire.

As for UT, if we're NOT a "destination" then it's unlikely we'll ever get enough of the elite talent nor the elite coach to push us over the hump to the Natty level. 1998 didn't happen in a vacuum. We had become a "destination" for talent.

Often, that "destination" designation is tied to the current coach. Elite players want to play for an elite coach.

If you terminate that coach, your "destination" status is diminished.
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NIL and the portal changes all this. 1998 and Fulmer are a bad example. there's a reason Nick Saban retired. its because being a destination school isn't about the head coach anymore.
 
#47
#47
EastTNVol6240 said:
I agree with most of that. I see both sides. Abd you may be right, if we can’t get more serious about NIL, and paying those splash hires, maybe it’s never an option here?

You often hear the words “players coach” and I’m sure Heupel is one. I get that vibe from him. Those coaches are great in some aspects, but you often need someone around that coach that isn’t the “nice guy”. I think we’re lacking that. If I was a young, hungry 20 year old trying to push through to get to the league, I’d want to play for the fiery coach with a tight ship winning. We don’t have the winning, and I’ve never seen any fire from Heup.

I appreciate Heup bringing us back to relevance, but do question his ceiling after that. Either way, I do think he will get another couple years for us to see how it pans out. Yea we’re mad and emotional, but a few angry VN posters ain’t getting him fired. We will see what changes he makes….
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I wasn't sold on Heupel from the beginning and no matter what Danny White has said (he really couldn't say otherwise) Josh Heupel wasn't our first choice. I believe Franklin, of all people, was said to have turned us down.

What Heupel HAS done is a pretty good job in recruiting and portaling in players after the Pruitt exodus. That said, our recruiting/portal work isn't quite to the level it needs to be.

I'll be EXTREMELY disappointed if we don't see some staff changes after this year, stronger recruiting (and we are still down 2 scholarships from the Pruitt fallout which doesn't help,) and a less player friendly attitude from Coach Heupel.

We may see some guys leave because they aren't ready to take instruction but Heupel is going to have to establish his "process" like Saban did that he can get the ENTIRE team to buy into or he's really not going to be the guy.

Joey A's comments about focus during practice, coming from a guy who has seen other programs, is telling. The young man knows slacking when he sees it AND he seems to indicate it was tolerated. That is an awful look for Josh Heupel.
 
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#48
#48
UTFranklinVol said:
NIL and the portal changes all this. 1998 and Fulmer are a bad example. there's a reason Nick Saban retired. its because being a destination school isn't about the head coach anymore.
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That's only true to some extent. Granted, even Vandy can buy a quality team now but Lea isn't a trash coach either.

We're seeing teams rise that aren't destinations but what is generally true is that you need both: money and a coach that can use the money well and actually coach football.
 
#49
#49
UTFranklinVol said:
but I was in corporate America for 20 years. if a company sees a leader as not having what it takes to push forward and they know what they will deliver won't be enough they will absolutely cut them loose and give someone else a chance.
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Corporations tend to groom someone for the day when someone either wants to leave, like Warren Buffet stepping away but having his successor ready and groomed, or needs to go like Urban Meyer at tOSU replaced by Ryan Day.

Corporations, successful ones anyway, are always ready for someone to get poached away or have a crisis or just die and need to be replaced.
 
#50
#50
UTFranklinVol said:
I agree they made a lot of bad hires, but this was a generation ago and college football was a completely different sport.

BUT even still they never let those guys go more than 4 years. they never cried "but but but he inherited a disaster give him 7 more years to rebuild!"
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And LSU floundered in the 80’s with a bad string of coaches as well. It has happened to many teams throughout history. It has happened at Florida. Georgia went through the Donnan and Goff years. GBO!
 
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