2025 Transfer Portal Thread

#9,826
#9,826
NighthawkVol said:
Courts avoid determining whether consideration is sufficient or not in contract disputes (the “peppercorn principle,” day 1 of Contracts Law). That makes it very difficult to close these loopholes, especially if all parties are in consent to the agreements. It will be interesting to see what legal arguments are made when/if said separation is challenged in court, because “insufficient consideration” isn’t going to fly.

Edit: Just read @VolGee4 post. He and I are both getting at the same thing. “Sufficient consideration” simply isn’t a viable argument. ANY consideration is legally sufficient.
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Nighthelmet— You’re missing a huge pile of context from this really labored silly discussion. The point seems lost and this was probably wasted energy all along. Pity me? In a nutsack, They (NCAA, supported by many coaches and universities) are investigating ways to create a body that enforces contracts, NIL etc without running afoul of state or federal laws. The premise seems to be that post profit sharing players can have a representative body that can participate in collective bargaining. This is due to the fact that they will no longer be amateurs. Other collective bargaining agreements in other sports define/prohibit types of compensation that are designed to skirt salary caps and other instruments designed to level competition. Those clauses define commensurate value. Obviously the two sides have to be willing to enter a collective bargaining agreement etc. I’m not here to refute “day one of contract” law which you and Gee both apparently attended. My original point, before we wandered miles torturing the thread, was that no one can argue that NIL money’s true and sole intent is to get a player to play at a desired school. Gee actually had a valid observation regarding the cookie company that accidentally received reasonable value for their spend because announcers loved to talk about it, and their spend was tiny. As a matter of trivia, he’s correct. As a matter of clearing fair consideration in a CBA, probably not. The conversation wasn’t originally a legal one. Once it became one, my error was in not adding the context of a collective bargaining agreement with willing participants. It doesn’t change my original point that NIL is largely a subterfuge, and there are plans to pass legislation to address that. The key element appears to be (according their counsel, not the firm of Helmethawk and Gee) that a CBA can be created and rules enforced regarding contracts etc to keep the integrity of the sport. Now that I understand this was merely a ploy for the two of you to get an NIL cookie for attending day one of contract class, I can go back to sleep.
I’m generally teasing, except for the legal need for NH to wear a helmet when he’s thinking to protect others from fluid leaks.
 
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#9,828
#9,828
Stoerner Fumbles said:
You’re right and legal precedent favors autonomy over heavily scrutinizing value. The argument here is that the disparity between what they are paid and what the payer gets might warrant that scrutiny. I’d assume that the contemplated law will need a collective bargaining agreement to make it work. Ultimately that’s how pro sports avoid the circumvention of the spirit of a salary cap.
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It feels like the issue with the standard market pricing mechanism is that essentially we are merging for-profit financial decisions with not-for-profit financial decisions. The government/regulation is not necessary in most every for-profit market interaction. The buyers and sellers will find the market equilibrium to price products and the labor market will find market equilibrium for salaries. College sports are complicated for many reasons. But a big reason is that "Donor A" or "Corporation A" is giving large amounts of money to pay the salaries (cough, cough) of athletes without any expectation that there will be a return of profit. That throws a wrench in the entire mechanism that would typically correct market inefficiencies when it comes to the amount of money that would normally be expected to be paid. So without relying on any intervention, whatever schools the wealthy donors/corporations "pick" will have massive advantages. They are basically choosing which charity to donate to. The government doesn't normally control your decisions about charitable donations. But this has so much more far-reaching implications than Bill Haslam donating $1M to UNICEF. Those amounts directly affect the amount of salary (cough, cough) that is paid to players. There can't be effective market mechanics in that environment. I think that is something the courts have to view in their decision-making in regards to player compensation. The government does not normally control your ability to earn. That is a good thing. That was the basis of court decisions up to this point. Its fairly basic legal precedent. But this is more complicated and the industry is too big, with too much money to not get regulation involved.
 
#9,832
#9,832
Stoerner Fumbles said:
In a nutsack,
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giphy.webp
 
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#9,833
#9,833
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Nighthelmet— You’re missing a huge pile of context from this really labored silly discussion. The point seems lost and this was probably wasted energy all along. Pity me? In a nutsack, They (NCAA, supported by many coaches and universities) are investigating ways to create a body that enforces contracts, NIL etc without running afoul of state or federal laws. The premise seems to be that post profit sharing players can have a representative body that can participate in collective bargaining. This is due to the fact that they will no longer be amateurs. Other collective bargaining agreements in other sports define/prohibit types of compensation that are designed to skirt salary caps and other instruments designed to level competition. Those clauses define commensurate value. Obviously the two sides have to be willing to enter a collective bargaining agreement etc. I’m not here to refute “day one of contract” law which you and Gee both apparently attended. My original point, before we wandered miles torturing the thread, was that no one can argue that NIL money’s true and sole intent is to get a player to play at a desired school. Gee actually had a valid observation regarding the cookie company that accidentally received reasonable value for their spend because announcers loved to talk about it, and their spend was tiny. As a matter of trivia, he’s correct. As a matter of clearing fair consideration in a CBA, probably not. The conversation wasn’t originally a legal one. Once it became one, my error was in not adding the context of a collective bargaining agreement with willing participants. It doesn’t change my original point that NIL is largely a subterfuge, and there are plans to pass legislation to address that. The key element appears to be (according their counsel, not the firm of Helmethawk and Gee) that a CBA can be created and rules enforced regarding contracts etc to keep the integrity of the sport. Now that I understand this was merely a ploy for the two of you to get an NIL cookie for attending day one of contract class, I can go back to sleep.
I’m generally teasing, except for the legal need for NH to wear a helmet when he’s thinking to protect others from fluid leaks.
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That's a lot of words to say you're jealous of me.
 
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#9,835
#9,835
walkenvol said:
This thread reminds me that one of the main skill sets required of lawyers is the ability to use way too many words to make any point. It’s as if the industry is being compensated by the length of their documents.
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😂😂 that was my thought as well. I have been married to a journalist, author of several books, and annoyed English cop for many years. One thing she has taught me over all those years…when writing… ALWAYS state your angle, storyline, or humor using as few words as possible. Otherwise…you tend to lose credibility. 🤷‍♂️
 
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#9,836
#9,836
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Nighthelmet— You’re missing a huge pile of context from this really labored silly discussion. The point seems lost and this was probably wasted energy all along. Pity me? In a nutsack, They (NCAA, supported by many coaches and universities) are investigating ways to create a body that enforces contracts, NIL etc without running afoul of state or federal laws. The premise seems to be that post profit sharing players can have a representative body that can participate in collective bargaining. This is due to the fact that they will no longer be amateurs. Other collective bargaining agreements in other sports define/prohibit types of compensation that are designed to skirt salary caps and other instruments designed to level competition. Those clauses define commensurate value. Obviously the two sides have to be willing to enter a collective bargaining agreement etc. I’m not here to refute “day one of contract” law which you and Gee both apparently attended. My original point, before we wandered miles torturing the thread, was that no one can argue that NIL money’s true and sole intent is to get a player to play at a desired school. Gee actually had a valid observation regarding the cookie company that accidentally received reasonable value for their spend because announcers loved to talk about it, and their spend was tiny. As a matter of trivia, he’s correct. As a matter of clearing fair consideration in a CBA, probably not. The conversation wasn’t originally a legal one. Once it became one, my error was in not adding the context of a collective bargaining agreement with willing participants. It doesn’t change my original point that NIL is largely a subterfuge, and there are plans to pass legislation to address that. The key element appears to be (according their counsel, not the firm of Helmethawk and Gee) that a CBA can be created and rules enforced regarding contracts etc to keep the integrity of the sport. Now that I understand this was merely a ploy for the two of you to get an NIL cookie for attending day one of contract class, I can go back to sleep.
I’m generally teasing, except for the legal need for NH to wear a helmet when he’s thinking to protect others from fluid leaks.
Click to expand...

With the judicial positions I still believe in the end the legislative branch will jump in the fray and make some interpretation impervious laws to take up for the VAST majority of athletes and the VAST majority of institutions in the NCAA that need to keep professionals out of amatuer athletics. They need to create an environment where there is adequate earnings for the big timers in a college/semi pro division, and return the balance to a more pure amateur model. This will eliminate a need for paid players getting on the field with those wanting an education and maybe a controlled NIL esque opportunity. Want more, free to move up to the big boy division. One of the few actions I can see bipartisan support for. Constituents en mass wanting schollies for kids WHILE prepping for real life, as players, cheerleaders, band members et.al. and not getting on fields with those with professional probabilities. To sustain every non revenue sports with money distribution not having to share with professionals.

Pretty easy baseline, institutions have to make a choice what level to play at, and those fairly earning the big bucks cannot get on the same fields and courts and tracks etc. No men in women’s sports and no pros in amatuer sports, the way it was intended. Get good enough and move up. Done deal.

So institutions can have different sports in different divisions. Tv deals for pro divisions separate than amatuer divisions. Individual donors also have pick and choice. Have bigtime playoffs AND the residual teams still have March madness. Conferences simply have to adjust. Does UT want to compete wit TEXAS, MICH, and other big dollar schools or return to the NEW amatuer divisions?

It is currently to broke to fix. The two concepts cannot fairly coexist on the fields and courts of play.
 
#9,837
#9,837
walkenvol said:
This thread reminds me that one of the main skill sets required of lawyers is the ability to use way too many words to make any point. It’s as if the industry is being compensated by the length of their documents.
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Hey- that's not fair. Mine were pretty short. I know today's society has a short attention span.
 
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#9,838
#9,838
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Nighthelmet— You’re missing a huge pile of context from this really labored silly discussion. The point seems lost and this was probably wasted energy all along. Pity me? In a nutsack, They (NCAA, supported by many coaches and universities) are investigating ways to create a body that enforces contracts, NIL etc without running afoul of state or federal laws. The premise seems to be that post profit sharing players can have a representative body that can participate in collective bargaining. This is due to the fact that they will no longer be amateurs. Other collective bargaining agreements in other sports define/prohibit types of compensation that are designed to skirt salary caps and other instruments designed to level competition. Those clauses define commensurate value. Obviously the two sides have to be willing to enter a collective bargaining agreement etc. I’m not here to refute “day one of contract” law which you and Gee both apparently attended. My original point, before we wandered miles torturing the thread, was that no one can argue that NIL money’s true and sole intent is to get a player to play at a desired school. Gee actually had a valid observation regarding the cookie company that accidentally received reasonable value for their spend because announcers loved to talk about it, and their spend was tiny. As a matter of trivia, he’s correct. As a matter of clearing fair consideration in a CBA, probably not. The conversation wasn’t originally a legal one. Once it became one, my error was in not adding the context of a collective bargaining agreement with willing participants. It doesn’t change my original point that NIL is largely a subterfuge, and there are plans to pass legislation to address that. The key element appears to be (according their counsel, not the firm of Helmethawk and Gee) that a CBA can be created and rules enforced regarding contracts etc to keep the integrity of the sport. Now that I understand this was merely a ploy for the two of you to get an NIL cookie for attending day one of contract class, I can go back to sleep.
I’m generally teasing, except for the legal need for NH to wear a helmet when he’s thinking to protect others from fluid leaks.
Click to expand...
 
#9,845
#9,845
tennrich1 said:
😂😂 that was my thought as well. I have been married to a journalist, author of several books, and annoyed English cop for many years. One thing she has taught me over all those years…when writing… ALWAYS state your angle, storyline, or humor using as few words as possible. Otherwise…you tend to lose credibility. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
So, you’re saying less is more!
 
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#9,849
#9,849
NighthawkVol said:
I think Gainey is the missing piece between a 2nd weekend team and a NC contender.
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Agreed but I also think someone can fill that role as long as they are willing/able to attack the rim, shoot a decent percentage from 3 and have a solid pull up jumper.

But I agree that Gainey is a true 2 guard and his play in the second half of last year and his coast to coast aggression displayed all year are greatly needed on this team.
 
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#9,850
#9,850
TheMookieMonster said:
I guess they’re referring to the fact that, unless I’ mistaken, each school has jurisdiction over how they split up the pot of money among programs once revenue sharing comes into effect, and I guess there are concerns that UT may just choose to dump it all in football since it’s responsible for about 75-80% of annual revenue.
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Well I'm sure that the largest chunk will go to football but DW takes pride in UT being an everything school and will spread plenty of funding around. We have always put tons of money into athletic programs and are one of the best collegiate athletic programs in the country. That won't change any time soon, especially not with more money available. It opens up more for everyone/everything.
 
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