2025 Transfer Portal Thread

[VolGee4]

I didn’t say anything about whether they benefit or value. I said the value is not commensurate. They pay players to play. Your example of the cookie company is a good one in making your point. It was cute enough and novel enough that it actually gained them more value than they paid. It’s a freak anomaly though.

Well, we would have to know the exact numbers to really determine that. Some might be worth it.

But my point was that autographs and memorabilia are NIL to a tee. That’s part of signing with the Vol Club. I get they are offered to get them to play for our team, but the Vol Club gets their rights to their NIL. I’ve enjoyed getting pictures and autographs that I would have never gotten otherwise.

There are some deals in the professional world that aren’t worth it either. Zion Williamson is probably not as valuable to Nike anymore, but he was getting paid for it because they gambled on that investment very early.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Well, we would have to know the exact numbers to really determine that. Some might be worth it.

But my point was that autographs and memorabilia are NIL to a tee. That’s part of signing with the Vol Club. I get they are offered to get them to play for our team, but the Vol Club gets their rights to their NIL. I’ve enjoyed getting pictures and autographs that I would have never gotten otherwise.

There are some deals in the professional world that aren’t worth it either. Zion Williamson is probably not as valuable to Nike anymore, but he was getting paid for it because they gambled on that investment very early.

Again, you’re missing it. The point is not whether someone tried to get commensurate value and failed. The point is that college deals are not driven by obtaining commensurate value or legally “fair consideration”. 0 NIL deals are based on fair consideration. That’s a fact. It’s not debatable.

 

[Jimmy Football]

It’s one of the loopholes to they’re exploring to get to possibly regulation of NIL. Contracts must exist on the concept of consideration. There’s currently an exploration of that concept in pursuit of separating compensation to play from compensation for name image likeness compensation.

Could you elaborate on this? Who is the “they” in this case, and to whom are they appealing on these grounds?

This seems like a dead end, to me.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

Again, you’re completely missing the point. Nike pays Jordan for endorsements because they MAKE money on those endorsements. 100% of NIL deals LOSE money because they are a shell game to get a kid to play at your school. There are no examples of profitable NIL deals for the money source. Does a local commercial selling mufflers have some value? Yes. Is that value hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions? No. Donors and local businesses want to present the illusion of a fair value transaction. Their sole intent is one thing— getting the kid on their team.

This is precisely why I believed going into this we would finally see, to a large degree, how much these athletes and/or their families were already getting paid.

 

[VolGee4]

Again, you’re missing it. The point is not whether someone tried to get commensurate value and failed. The point is that college deals are not driven by obtaining commensurate value or legally “fair consideration”. 0 NIL deals are based on fair consideration. That’s a fact. It’s not debatable.

I always appreciate your info, so please don’t take this as argument. Just discussion.

As an attorney, I slightly disagree. I understand it’s the Wild West, and there are no real guardrails. There is some nuance to this. The ulterior motive is for a player to be on your team, but with that, comes NIL value from the player. Every click for autographs, jerseys, memorabilia brings awareness to a program. A piece of the sale goes to the school. The school offers the platform, and the player offers the production and hopefully the sale of merchandise. While Jeremiah Smith offers a bunch to OSU on the field, there is also value for them off the field. Whether or not you want to argue “commensurate value,” it’s kind of for the market to determine. His success also puts more people in the seats and eye balls on tv.

Nico was paid to come to UT, but he brought his NIL with him. Once he started selling jerseys, hoodies, and other things, it brought awareness to the program along with income.

Just my opinion. But there are certainly some issues with what we currently have.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

I always appreciate your info, so please don’t take this as argument. Just discussion.

As an attorney, I slightly disagree. I understand it’s the Wild West, and there are no real guardrails. There is some nuance to this. The ulterior motive is for a player to be on your team, but with that, comes NIL value from the player. Every click for autographs, jerseys, memorabilia brings awareness to a program. A piece of the sale goes to the school. The school offers the platform, and the player offers the production and hopefully the sale of merchandise. While Jeremiah Smith offers a bunch to OSU on the field, there is also value for them off the field. Whether or not you want to argue “commensurate value,” it’s kind of for the market to determine. His success also puts more people in the seats and eye balls on tv.

Nico was paid to come to UT, but he brought his NIL with him. Once he started selling jerseys, hoodies, and other things, it brought awareness to the program along with income.

Just my opinion. But there are certainly some issues with what we currently have.

You keep making the case that there is “some” value. I’m not contesting that. There is no commensurate value. That’s the point.

 

[VolGee4]

You keep making the case that there is “some” value. I’m not contesting that. There is no commensurate value. That’s the point.

Let's go back to your original point though. You discussed "consideration," which is a legal term. Even "some value" equals consideration. A contract isn't enforceable when there is no consideration or maybe so small that it's considered a gift. You are hung up on "fair consideration," and that is somewhat subjective. Players certainly aren't being gifted anything when they are giving up their NIL for schools to use.

I think "commensurate value" is a little different concept than consideration. Sure, players are getting compensated more than what their NIL would probably normally bring. There is no doubt about it. Hopefully, the profit sharing might shift the market some by getting everyone compensated and then use NIL for those that are star players. But, there is still value in paying players for their NIL.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Let's go back to your original point though. You discussed "consideration," which is a legal term. Even "some value" equals consideration. A contract isn't enforceable when there is no consideration or maybe so small that it's considered a gift. You are hung up on "fair consideration," and that is somewhat subjective. Players certainly aren't being gifted anything when they are giving up their NIL for schools to use.

I think "commensurate value" is a little different concept than consideration. Sure, players are getting compensated more than what their NIL would probably normally bring. There is no doubt about it. Hopefully, the profit sharing might shift the market some by getting everyone compensated and then use NIL for those that are star players. But, there is still value in paying players for their NIL.

It’s not my original legal argument. They are crafting a bill based on fair/reasonable consideration as we speak. The argument is there is no justification for a player getting 5mm for any other reason than the fact that the collective wants him to play. No one denies that the actions of the collectives skirt the spirit of the law. They haven’t determined how to enforce the law. The latest plan is to establish market values and then not allow teams to vary from that by egregious sums.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

It’s not my original legal argument. They are crafting a bill based on fair/reasonable consideration as we speak. The argument is there is no justification for a player getting 5mm for any other reason than the fact that the collective wants him to play. No one denies that the actions of the collectives skirt the spirit of the law. They haven’t determined how to enforce the law. The latest plan is to establish market values and then not allow teams to vary from that by egregious sums.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I am not a lawyer but I believe it is well established that contract law only requires "some" value and not "objective" value. Also, I believe the emotional value derived from enjoyment/pleasure is a valid factor. Hopefully we reach a reasonable position which balances an individual's economic freedom and the free for all we are witnessing.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I am not a lawyer but I believe it is well established that contract law only requires "some" value and not "objective" value. Also, I believe the emotional value derived from enjoyment/pleasure is a valid factor. Hopefully we reach a reasonable position which balances an individual's economic freedom and the free for all we are witnessing.

You’re right and legal precedent favors autonomy over heavily scrutinizing value. The argument here is that the disparity between what they are paid and what the payer gets might warrant that scrutiny. I’d assume that the contemplated law will need a collective bargaining agreement to make it work. Ultimately that’s how pro sports avoid the circumvention of the spirit of a salary cap.

 

[VolGee4]

It’s not my original legal argument. They are crafting a bill based on fair/reasonable consideration as we speak. The argument is there is no justification for a player getting 5mm for any other reason than the fact that the collective wants him to play. No one denies that the actions of the collectives skirt the spirit of the law. They haven’t determined how to enforce the law. The latest plan is to establish market values and then not allow teams to vary from that by egregious sums.

Not sure that's the way I would go with it, but it's the NCAA's mess. Establishing market value is what the market does- lol.

 

[Lankykong]

There are some areas where establishing a fair market value is a thing, like the anti kickback statute for doctors. Obviously something totally different than this though.

 

[Lefteye]

You’re right and legal precedent favors autonomy over heavily scrutinizing value. The argument here is that the disparity between what they are paid and what the payer gets might warrant that scrutiny. I’d assume that the contemplated law will need a collective bargaining agreement to make it work. Ultimately that’s how pro sports avoid the circumvention of the spirit of a salary cap.

Wanna start with I don’t know much at all in regards to the legal precedents and hope you don’t take this question combative. I just find this discussion really fascinating especially with college sports today. But doesn’t the bold go back to “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure”? Not calling these guys trash either, but who can really set a value on another man’s/collectives want, other than them?

Or did you kinda answer in the last sentence regarding the salary cap?

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Wanna start with I don’t know much at all in regards to the legal precedents and hope you don’t take this question combative. I just find this discussion really fascinating especially with college sports today. But doesn’t the bold go back to “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure”? Not calling these guys trash either, but who can really set a value on another man’s/collectives want, other than them?

Or did you kinda answer in the last sentence regarding the salary cap?

I don’t take it as combative. I think it probably does require collective bargaining of some sort. That wasn’t possible as an amateur sport, but may be with revenue sharing.

 

[TrippieRedd]

We land Boogie yet?

 

[cwbytruckers]

i would like to request a transfer from this argument

 

[TrippieRedd]

i would like to request a transfer from this argument

Argument portal closed

 

[Lefteye]

We land Boogie yet?

Lmao my man!!

 

[VolFanNC09]

Gainey's defense has grown exponentially over the last year, to the point where he had become pretty much a shut down defender by the time of the NCAA's. Gainey had turned into a proven closer on offense that could get his own shot and make money shots, a skill that any team can use in crunch time.

I know nothing about Miles other than his numbers and what has been discussed here, but Gainey is a proven commodity that is improving. Given the choice, I'd have to go with Gainey for his knowledge of the system and to have a veteran voice with so many newcomers.

If we get Gainey back, I really believe we are a final four team. I would not have thought that months ago, but this offseason, Rick and our NIL collective have really done some work.

 

[NighthawkVol]

It’s one of the loopholes to they’re exploring to get to possibly regulation of NIL. Contracts must exist on the concept of consideration. There’s currently an exploration of that concept in pursuit of separating compensation to play from compensation for name image likeness compensation.

Courts avoid determining whether consideration is sufficient or not in contract disputes (the “peppercorn principle,” day 1 of Contracts Law). That makes it very difficult to close these loopholes, especially if all parties are in consent to the agreements. It will be interesting to see what legal arguments are made when/if said separation is challenged in court, because “insufficient consideration” isn’t going to fly.

Edit: Just read @VolGee4 post. He and I are both getting at the same thing. “Sufficient consideration” simply isn’t a viable argument. ANY consideration is legally sufficient.

 

[NighthawkVol]

If we get Gainey back, I really believe we are a final four team. I would not have thought that months ago, but this offseason, Rick and our NIL collective have really done some work.

I think Gainey is the missing piece between a 2nd weekend team and a NC contender.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

You’re right and legal precedent favors autonomy over heavily scrutinizing value. The argument here is that the disparity between what they are paid and what the payer gets might warrant that scrutiny. I’d assume that the contemplated law will need a collective bargaining agreement to make it work. Ultimately that’s how pro sports avoid the circumvention of the spirit of a salary cap.

Agreed...collective bargaining is what has to happen. Given the current FBS structure which is outside of the NCAA, I assume they will be the first group to pursue this solution and it could come rather quickly.

 

[vol94]

Argument portal closed

Thank you!

 

[ToddKirk87]

Made new thread

 

[VolFan_stuck_in_the_901]

Been hanging out on the baseball board a lot recently, what'd I miss?