2024 Recruiting Thread

[Voltopia]

Well let's just hope another SEC team or any team for that matter gets her and she SHOOTS us outta the gym...

See, this is what I'm really concerned about, and have been from the start - this whole business turning into some sort of perceived slight where people take sides and even actively wish Tennessee harm because the athletic program didn't do what they wanted. I can easily see this turning into a sore point for years, and that's super, super lame, in particular when people start wishing for Tennessee to fail because of the situation. Just a hot mess all around.

 

[VolBall09]

Nor am I looking for yours

Ditto, we’ve established that over the years

 

[CP3_LVFL]

See, this is what I'm really concerned about, and have been from the start - this whole business turning into some sort of perceived slight where people take sides and even actively wish Tennessee harm because the athletic program didn't do what they wanted. I can easily see this turning into a sore point for years, and that's super, super lame, in particular when people start wishing for Tennessee to fail because of the situation. Just a hot mess all around.

It's not taking sides or in anyway WISHING harm on TN did you read the post. I said I hope this DOESNT happen I never wished ill will on TN and never would.
We really do not know what kind of relationship madi even has with TN. Maybe they are recruiting her but haven't offered yet maybe they don't know if a shooter is what they need.
Madi will do well wherever she goes I'm sure. With a shot/game like hers she will be successful I imagine where ever she goes

 

[Voltopia]

It's not taking sides or in anyway WISHING harm on TN did you read the post. I said I hope this DOESNT happen I never wished ill will on TN and never would.
We really do not know what kind of relationship madi even has with TN. Maybe they are recruiting her but haven't offered yet maybe they don't know if a shooter is what they need.
Madi will do well wherever she goes I'm sure. With a shot/game like hers she will be successful I imagine where ever she goes

I did read the post - here's your words, copied and pasted.

"Well let's just hope another SEC team or any team for that matter gets her and she SHOOTS us outta the gym... "

Maybe you meant to say that you hoped that didn't happen, but if that's the case you missed a word somewhere in there. If that's so, totally understandable. I was just going off what was written.

I don't have a problem with people rooting for Hawk, or wanting to see her succeed, I think that's fine and supporting girls who come from Tennessee is super. This state produces a lot of talent that doesn't always get the recognition it deserves. If UT gives her a shot and she takes it, cheers. The staff gets to make that call. My concern is more about seeing folks build this story up in their heads for a few years now, and hoping that they don't turn hostile or start bashing everything if they end up being disappointed.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I did read the post - here's your words, copied and pasted.

"Well let's just hope another SEC team or any team for that matter gets her and she SHOOTS us outta the gym... "

Maybe you meant to say that you hoped that didn't happen, but if that's the case you missed a word somewhere in there. If that's so, totally understandable. I was just going off what was written.

I don't have a problem with people rooting for Hawk, or wanting to see her succeed, I think that's fine and supporting girls who come from Tennessee is super. This state produces a lot of talent that doesn't always get the recognition it deserves. If UT gives her a shot and she takes it, cheers. The staff gets to make that call. My concern is more about seeing folks build this story up in their heads for a few years now, and hoping that they don't turn hostile or start bashing everything if they end up being disappointed.

You mean like the Karly Weathers or Ace Strickland situation. People BASHED Justine and said Kellie should have looked in state because of their similar talent level. Not bashing Weathers/Strickland and i'm sure they can have very good careers but i think Justine showed why Kellie and company chose her.

FURTHER MORE while hindsight is 20/20 we used all the scholarships and Justine was the only 2022 signee (3xAll American along the way). IF kellie had just grabbed one or both of those players i mentioned it would have resulted in not getting one or a combo of Rickea Jackson, Jasmine Powell, Jasmine Franklin, or Jillian Hollingshead

 

[CP3_LVFL]

I did read the post - here's your words, copied and pasted.

"Well let's just hope another SEC team or any team for that matter gets her and she SHOOTS us outta the gym... "

Maybe you meant to say that you hoped that didn't happen, but if that's the case you missed a word somewhere in there. If that's so, totally understandable. I was just going off what was written.

I don't have a problem with people rooting for Hawk, or wanting to see her succeed, I think that's fine and supporting girls who come from Tennessee is super. This state produces a lot of talent that doesn't always get the recognition it deserves. If UT gives her a shot and she takes it, cheers. The staff gets to make that call. My concern is more about seeing folks build this story up in their heads for a few years now, and hoping that they don't turn hostile or start bashing everything if they end up being disappointed.

I simply ment I hope another school doesn't get her and if they do I hope she doesn't come back to shoot us out of the gym
My apologies if what I said was taken the wrong way.

I think she is good enough to play P5 maybe just not a good fit for TN and the system they run.

 

[turbovol]

I have no opinion on whether Hawk is capable of playing high-level D1 basketball, but I will say that quickness and athleticism //cannot// really be improved. Many things in a person's sports performance can be improved, but your basic athletic level is your basic athletic level. You can't teach someone to jump higher, for example, or to move laterally more efficiently. We have players now that are not quick, and they are a defensive liability. We had a player years ago, Zolman, who was a very good 3-point shooter--but only if left alone--and every other part of her game was less than impressive--not quick, not a particularly good ball-handler. Quickness also determines how well one works off the ball--getting to a spot before your defender gets there, and then getting your shot off. Our men's team got a transfer from Auburn a year or two ago, Powell, whose forté is 3-point shooting. Fans were all excited about his scoring potential--and in the end he rarely played. He couldn't create well enough off the dribble--which is an important offensive skill if you are a guard---and I don't think his defense was very good, and so he didn't play much, and now he's transferring again.

That said, coaches will, and should, take a serious look at someone who shoots the 3 as well as she does. Three-point shooting has been a been weakness in UT's game for years, so I'd be surprised if the coaches haven't taken a good look at her. A big part of college/pro coaching is talent evaluation. Some are better at it than others, and it is very common to "miss" on a player--presume than s/he is going to be better at high Div.1 level than she turns out to be, or pass on seriously recruiting her or him and then frown when s/he is playing well for another team. With a lot of prospects, you never really know how they'll perform at a new and higher level until you get them on the court, competing, and watch.

 

[therickbol]

I have no opinion on whether Hawk is capable of playing high-level D1 basketball, but I will say that quickness and athleticism //cannot// really be improved. Many things in a person's sports performance can be improved, but your basic athletic level is your basic athletic level. You can't teach someone to jump higher, for example, or to move laterally more efficiently. We have players now that are not quick, and they are a defensive liability. We had a player years ago, Zolman, who was a very good 3-point shooter--but only if left alone--and every other part of her game was less than impressive--not quick, not a particularly good ball-handler. Quickness also determines how well one works off the ball--getting to a spot before your defender gets there, and then getting your shot off. Our men's team got a transfer from Auburn a year or two ago, Powell, whose forté is 3-point shooting. Fans were all excited about his scoring potential--and in the end he rarely played. He couldn't create well enough off the dribble--which is an important offensive skill if you are a guard---and I don't think his defense was very good, and so he didn't play much, and now he's transferring again.

That said, coaches will, and should, take a serious look at someone who shoots the 3 as well as she does. Three-point shooting has been a been weakness in UT's game for years, so I'd be surprised if the coaches haven't taken a good look at her. A big part of college/pro coaching is talent evaluation. Some are better at it than others, and it is very common to "miss" on a player--presume than s/he is going to be better at high Div.1 level than she turns out to be, or pass on seriously recruiting her or him and then frown when s/he is playing well for another team. With a lot of prospects, you never really know how they'll perform at a new and higher level until you get them on the court, competing, and watch.

Every player has their own ceiling as far as HOW quick they can be or HOW high they can jump. You can't do anything to increase that ceiling. But players can absolutely get quicker and improve their vertical. The proper nutrition and training at the college level will certainly give significant improvement to both those things.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I have no opinion on whether Hawk is capable of playing high-level D1 basketball, but I will say that quickness and athleticism //cannot// really be improved. Many things in a person's sports performance can be improved, but your basic athletic level is your basic athletic level. You can't teach someone to jump higher, for example, or to move laterally more efficiently. . . .

When I was in middle school (then called Jr high) I was one of the 3-4 fastest guys in my school. I immediately gravitated to track and one of the first thing Coach Crowder did was time me in the 100 yard dash (The 100 yard dash (then) is now a 100 meter dash (109.6 yards))... I ran a 12.1 time... In our first practice I lined up against our HS runners and got blown away by Tim Howell's 10.9 time. He walked over to me and said, "not bad rook,,next time I won't be so nice"...Later in track meets Tim's true speed-time was revealed 10.4

Coach Crowder got with me and began to teach me "no wasted motion" running. He told me when I ran, my hands were flailing and I had too much bounce in my stride and it wasn't a full stride. He told me to stand back and watch Tim's technique. Tim's hands went "socket to pocket" (eye socket to front of hip). And when he was at full run there was absolutely no up and down movement in his shoulders or head. It was as if his upper body was on a conveyor belt) and the difference between his first 3 steps and his finishing stride was apparent. . . Coach told I needed to limit my arm movement and to focus on a stationary object in the distance and focus on not letting it go up and down when I ran and extend my stride. . . By the time I graduated my fastest time was a 10.5 (Still slow for 100 dash on a collegiate level, but good for HS)

My point is technique can make an individual much more effective than just pure speed. Also, in basketball,, technique and deception can take away a faster defender's advantage...A good ball-swing or pump-fake can freeze a defender or make them lean the wrong way and give the offensive player a major advantage

 

[VolBall09]

When I was in middle school (then called Jr high) I was one of the 3-4 fastest guys in my school. I immediately gravitated to track and one of the first thing Coach Crowder did was time me in the 100 yard dash (The 100 yard dash (then) is now a 100 meter dash (109.6 yards))... I ran a 12.1 time... In our first practice I lined up against our HS runners and got blown away by Tim Howell's 10.9 time. He walked over to me and said, "not bad rook,,next time I won't be so nice"...Later in track meets Tim's true speed-time was revealed 10.4

Coach Crowder got with me and began to teach me "no wasted motion" running. He told me when I ran, my hands were flailing and I had too much bounce in my stride and it wasn't a full stride. He told me to stand back and watch Tim's technique. Tim's hands went "socket to pocket" (eye socket to front of hip). And when he was at full run there was absolutely no up and down movement in his shoulders or head. It was as if his upper body was on a conveyor belt) and the difference between his first 3 steps and his finishing stride was apparent. . . Coach told I needed to limit my arm movement and to focus on a stationary object in the distance and focus on not letting it go up and down when I ran and extend my stride. . . By the time I graduated my fastest time was a 10.5 (Still slow for 100 dash on a collegiate level, but good for HS)

My point is technique can make an individual much more effective than just pure speed. Also, in basketball,, technique and deception can take away a faster defender's advantage...A good ball-swing or pump-fake can freeze a defender or make them lean the wrong way and give the offensive player a major advantage

Don’t piss on my boots and tell me it’s raining

 

[lvocd]

My point is technique can make an individual much more effective than just pure speed. Also, in basketball,, technique and deception can take away a faster defender's advantage...A good ball-swing or pump-fake can freeze a defender or make them lean the wrong way and give the offensive player a major advantage

I agree. If I could have three wishes forLady Vol offseason improvements, my first and second wishes would be for the entire team to work seriously on committing to muscle memory (after countless repetitions) a variety of head fakes and ball fakes. It has long been a wish to see our players use these extremely beneficial moves because I am 100% confident that if they DID have those moves as a well-practiced, fluid part of their games they would not have been absent from the Final Four since 2008.

Jordan Horston is so naturally athletic that she could master several "fake" moves in just one summer if she really put her mind to it and spent many, many hours dedicated to doing the number of reps it would take for them to become second nature. I believe Sara Puckett could do it, too. And I feel like Justine would benefit greatly for developing some fakes, too.

My third wish would be for our three-point shooters to develop either step-backs like Rennia did so well, or that nifty side-step move I've been seeing pro players doing lately.

So, yes, I definitely agree that there's much we could do to take it up a notch this coming season. Can't wait to see what they worked on!

 

[Coach Jumper]

Don’t piss on my boots and tell me it’s raining

Of course I wouldn't,
now, finish your dinner and put on your Dingos

 

[turbovol]

When I was in middle school (then called Jr high) I was one of the 3-4 fastest guys in my school. I immediately gravitated to track and one of the first thing Coach Crowder did was time me in the 100 yard dash (The 100 yard dash (then) is now a 100 meter dash (109.6 yards))... I ran a 12.1 time... In our first practice I lined up against our HS runners and got blown away by Tim Howell's 10.9 time. He walked over to me and said, "not bad rook,,next time I won't be so nice"...Later in track meets Tim's true speed-time was revealed 10.4

Coach Crowder got with me and began to teach me "no wasted motion" running. He told me when I ran, my hands were flailing and I had too much bounce in my stride and it wasn't a full stride. He told me to stand back and watch Tim's technique. Tim's hands went "socket to pocket" (eye socket to front of hip). And when he was at full run there was absolutely no up and down movement in his shoulders or head. It was as if his upper body was on a conveyor belt) and the difference between his first 3 steps and his finishing stride was apparent. . . Coach told I needed to limit my arm movement and to focus on a stationary object in the distance and focus on not letting it go up and down when I ran and extend my stride. . . By the time I graduated my fastest time was a 10.5 (Still slow for 100 dash on a collegiate level, but good for HS)

My point is technique can make an individual much more effective than just pure speed. Also, in basketball,, technique and deception can take away a faster defender's advantage...A good ball-swing or pump-fake can freeze a defender or make them lean the wrong way and give the offensive player a major advantage

Speed /can/ be improved by improving your running technique--but once you've done that you've mostly maximized your potential.

But this is the important part: Basketball is a game of QUICKNESS, more so than speed, and you can't improve quickness much with technique. You can do footwork drills and they might help a bit, but players typically can either move laterally efficiently or they can't. Plain 'ole effort plays a role in defensive effectiveness, to be sure: Some players are just lazy on defense and thus not effective, and other players who may not be very athletic or quick can partially make up for their physical deficiencies with effort and ability to read the game--but if you are a guard or wing who lacks quickness and you're guarding a quicker opponent who has the ball, no amount of technique or effort is going to help you: You're going to get beat.

Jumper, because he trains individuals, has a vested interest in teaching techniques--and that's wonderful, helpful. But in sports some players are athletic and some are not, and athleticism is not really something that can be improved a whole lot. A little, maybe, but not a lot. You've either got it or you don't.

 

[lvocd]

Plain 'ole effort plays a role in defensive effectiveness, to be sure: Some players are just lazy on defense and thus not effective, and other players who may not be very athletic or quick can partially make up for their physical deficiencies with effort and ability to read the game--

Not picking on you by saying this, but I think most players slack off on defense not because of laziness, but because good defense is extremely exhausting, causing muscles to burn and ache for relief. So players are afraid of putting too much out there for long periods because they don't think they'll be able to make it to the next break in action.

Good defense is mind over matter, and finding players who combine the mental toughness and muscular stamina it takes to fight through the fatigue to achieve it are about as rare as anything in sports.

One thing I've always enjoyed about attending games at TBA is that there has always appeared to be a great number of people in the stands who understand just how so very difficult/exhausting playing shut-down defense really is, because often the most excited the crowd gets is for a terrific defensive stand. Lady Vol fans know their stuff.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Not picking on you by saying this, but I think most players slack off on defense not because of laziness, but because good defense is extremely exhausting, causing muscles to burn and ache for relief. So players are afraid of putting too much out there for long periods because they don't think they'll be able to make it to the next break in action.

Good defense is mind over matter, and finding players who combine the mental toughness and muscular stamina it takes to fight through the fatigue to achieve it are about as rare as anything in sports.

One thing I've always enjoyed about attending games at TBA is that there has always appeared to be a great number of people in the stands who understand just how so very difficult/exhausting playing shut-down defense really is, because often the most excited the crowd gets is for a terrific defensive stand. Lady Vol fans know their stuff.

There is also philosophy in defending. I worked with one past player for a while on technique. She too was pure speed and relied on this. I told her that the trouble with relying fully on speed is you have no recourse for over-reacting and fall victim to the deceptions I spoke of (fakes, swings). I told her to think more like a cat. A cat does not simply pounce on its tinier prey. Instead it toys with it, frustrates it and constantly corrals its movements. This player, being taller and longer than most of her assignments began to use her "length" to corral the smaller quicker guards, constricting their movements instead of reacting to them... And she also began to have a backup plan for attacks (e.g..if she took a step towards her assignment, she would immediately "switch-foot" back two step before the offender could take advantage of her leaning-in). I told her to also take infrequent swipes in the path of her assignment's crossover path, to take away that weapon as well.

I call this defense "foosball defense" as in the game of foosball, when playing goalie and being matched up against a good shooter, it is impossible to beat a good pull/push/or toe shot by matching its speed. You have to anticipate and move before the shooter takes their shot to upset their timing and you have to do so with using the back-man as a "safety net" in case they anticipate your jumping and go in behind your pre-move anticipation.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Speed /can/ be improved by improving your running technique--but once you've done that you've mostly maximized your potential.

But this is the important part: Basketball is a game of QUICKNESS, more so than speed, and you can't improve quickness much with technique. You can do footwork drills and they might help a bit, but players typically can either move laterally efficiently or they can't. . . .

Agree to a point. Lateral quickness can be sped up and tweaked by technique as well.

Watch then LV's during warmups. (They warmup an hour before every game and the doors are open an hour before each game). Particularly, watch the lateral slides.

You will see heads/shoulders bounce on most of the girls. The quicker ones have no up and down movement in this area. This as well has to be instructed...Lateral movement quickness comes from movement of the legs/feet from below the knees. If the movement has involvement in the hips, speed is lost in bad technique. You have t o move laterally in a "body on a conveyor" movement. No up and down movement! This has to be analyzed with each athlete doing their lateral movements in a mirrored wall (like in a workout room)...Once they see how the bounce and correct it, they move much quicker on their laterals. Most of the problems they have is they are too vertical when they defensive-slide. You have to have your butt down and you body in a TNT to move properly in a slide.

 

[lvocd]

Agree to a point. Lateral quickness can be sped up and tweaked by technique as well.

Watch then LV's during warmups. (They warmup an hour before every game and the doors are open an hour before each game). Particularly, watch the lateral slides.

You will see heads/shoulders bounce on most of the girls. The quicker ones have no up and down movement in this area. This as well has to be instructed...Lateral movement quickness comes from movement of the legs/feet from below the knees. If the movement has involvement in the hips, speed is lost in bad technique. You have t o move laterally in a "body on a conveyor" movement. No up and down movement! This has to be analyzed with each athlete doing their lateral movements in a mirrored wall (like in a workout room)...Once they see how the bounce and correct it, they move much quicker on their laterals. Most of the problems they have is they are too vertical when they defensive-slide. You have to have your butt down and you body in a TNT to move properly in a slide.

Generally speaking, our pre-game warmups are a colossal waste of time as far as doing anything to prepare the team to play well. They mindlessly sleep-walk through the motions instead of using the time to mentally prepare and ramp up to game mindset and physical readiness. Watching pre-game warmups are the only thing I don't enjoy about going to games because I can't stop obsessing over how differently I would run them.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Generally speaking, our pre-game warmups are a colossal waste of time as far as doing anything to prepare the team to play well. They mindlessly sleep-walk through the motions instead of using the time to mentally prepare and ramp up to game mindset and physical readiness. Watching pre-game warmups are the only thing I don't enjoy about going to games because I can't stop obsessing over how differently I would run them.

Agree for the most part. But what I look for is through a coach's eye..."As you practice, so will you play"

 

[lvocd]

Agree for the most part. But what I look for is through a coach's eye..."As you practice, so will you play"

Exactly. There's obviously no emphasis on trying to perform any of the drills, movements or taking of shots with an effort to try to imagine they were doing it within the game. Now, as a former player myself, I understand how difficult that can be to pull off. But when I got older and wiser I came to realize that coaching staffs miss out on an excellent opportunity to better prepare their players to begin the game when they pretty much ignore the lackadaisical pre-game warmups, leaving it to team managers to oversee them for the most part.

If I were a major D1 coach I'd make sure I got out there for at least one pre-game exercise/drill in which my players knew they'd better be taking seriously as a means to prepare -- because I'd be watching them closer than close.

 

[VolBall09]

Exactly. There's obviously no emphasis on trying to perform any of the drills, movements or taking of shots with an effort to try to imagine they were doing it within the game. Now, as a former player myself, I understand how difficult that can be to pull off. But when I got older and wiser I came to realize that coaching staffs miss out on an excellent opportunity to better prepare their players to begin the game when they pretty much ignore the lackadaisical pre-game warmups, leaving it to team managers to oversee them for the most part.

If I were a major D1 coach I'd make sure I got out there for at least one pre-game exercise/drill in which my players knew they'd better be taking seriously as a means to prepare -- because I'd be watching them closer than close.

They have shoot around in the morning for all of that usually

I think pregame is mostly them getting ready mentally and getting some shots up?

 

[lvocd]

They have shoot around in the morning for all of that usually

I think pregame is mostly them getting ready mentally and getting some shots up?

I realize that. But what they do in the morning can't carry over as well to tipoff as what they just did five minutes ago. Next time you get a chance to watch warm-ups, really watch them. They aren't using the time as well as they could, IMO. Every time we get off to a sluggish start I start thinking, "SEE?! If they'd have used the warm-up to focus instead of just going through the motions, maybe they would have come out ready to play!"

Yes, I'm a nut. I own it.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I realize that. But what they do in the morning can't carry over as well to tipoff as what they just did five minutes ago. Next time you get a chance to watch warm-ups, really watch them. They aren't using the time as well as they could, IMO. Every time we get off to a sluggish start I start thinking, "SEE?! If they'd have used the warm-up to focus instead of just going through the motions, maybe they would have come out ready to play!"

Yes, I'm a nut. I own it.

not at all...behaviors are learned and repeated. My philosophy in teaching and training is not "do it until you get it right" it is "do it until you can't get it wrong"

I fully believe that half-speed layups are a major reason so many full-speed layups are missed
JMO

 

[Memvol44]

I understand TN going after higher ranked players
I do
3 point specialist that are top 25ers are rare, (e.g..Justine)
but players who shoot like she does against top tier defenders are rare
Madi went 21/35 from 3 60% in this tourney and it isn't the first time I have seen those numbers but, again, I don't second guess coach K
She knows what she needs and I have had her back since before she even got here and my position has not changed

If there is room for Jesse,there will be room for Madi......

 

[LV renaissance]

If there is room for Jesse,there will be room for Madi......

I don't have an opinion about Madi, but with this the weakest argument yet. We could offer about 10,000 players a year if this was the bar we were operating at. This is not a jab at Jesse, but she was offered at a particular time when there were no other viable choices committing to the LVs as the 3 point specialist due to our program being in shambles. Thankfully, we are in dramatically different times now. I do commend Jessie for having a wonderful team first attitude and for her improvement in her defense.

 

[Peas29]

Well let's just hope another SEC team or any team for that matter gets her and she SHOOTS us outta the gym...
ALL I will say is you can take a team with 5 Athletic players and put them agasint 5 ELITE SHOOTERS and I guarentee you the fundamental skilled SHOOTERS will win. (Look at iowa state) they just wore TN out in the 3 on 3 game and they didn't have 1 athletic player what they did have was elite shooters
I dont think HAWK wants to go to TN anyway from what I've heard through the grapevine
What's it to you or anyone else what madi MOM does sounds like you might be a little salty towards madi and her mom

Not saying I agree or disagree with him/her but the opinion on the mom is no different from anyone else’s past opinions on other parents.