2024 Presidential Race

#15,704
#15,704
OrangeTsar said:
Remember when the major media used to employ „fact checkers“? Good times. Good times
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The number of media “fact checks” fell precipitously with the arrival of Joe Biden.

The inaccurate statements didn’t fall, but the desire of the NYT & CNN to call them out certainly declined.
 
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#15,706
#15,706
BowlBrother85 said:
I'm speaking in the facts of her voting record. And no, not every House Republican voted with Trump as much as she did - not even close. You are injecting a lot of BS into this. Trump governed just as much as an "establishment President" as anyone ever has. The "drain the swamp" rhetoric was hollow.
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projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Tracking Congress In The Age Of Trump

FiveThirtyEight is tracking which senators and representatives agree and disagree most with Donald Trump.
projects.fivethirtyeight.com projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Liz was hardly an outlier in voting with Trump 93% of the time. Sort it by "Trump Score." You actually have to scroll about halfway down that list of Republicans to find her name. An overwhelming majority of Rs voted with Trump 90-100% of the time.

I didn't say anything as far as how Trump actually governed. My point is that Trump's initial momentum as a Presidential candidate was in large part due to a rhetorical repudiation of the Bush/Cheney years, which immediately put people like Liz on the outside, regardless of how he actually governed.
 
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#15,707
#15,707
85SugarVol said:
The number of media “fact checks” fell precipitously with the arrival of Joe Biden.

The inaccurate statements didn’t fall, but the desire of the NYT & CNN to call them out certainly declined.
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Just based on Trump's lies about the 2020 Presidential Election alone .... the inaccurate statements have declined. This has become a mainstay tactic of the right - try to diminish Trump's own misconduct, by claiming that everyone else is just as bad. No, they're not.
 
#15,708
#15,708
05_never_again said:
projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Tracking Congress In The Age Of Trump

FiveThirtyEight is tracking which senators and representatives agree and disagree most with Donald Trump.
projects.fivethirtyeight.com projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Liz was hardly an outlier in voting with Trump 93% of the time. Sort it by "Trump Score." You actually have to scroll about halfway down that list of Republicans to find her name. An overwhelming majority of Rs voted with Trump 90-100% of the time.

I didn't say anything as far as how Trump actually governed. My point is that Trump's initial momentum as a Presidential candidate was in large part due to a rhetorical repudiation of the Bush/Cheney years, which immediately put people like Liz on the outside, regardless of how he actually governed.
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She wasn't on the outside, until after the 2020 election. You tried to claim that every Republican voted like her. They did not.
 
#15,711
#15,711
05_never_again said:
That's really quite a statement. The link I provided says the exact opposite. There are only a handful of Rs who voted with Trump less than 90% of the time.
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According to you own link .... there were 71 Republicans who voted for Trump's publicly stated position less than 90% of the time. That is more than a handful. You are either lying, or you didn't take the time to actually count them.
 
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#15,712
#15,712
SpaceCoastVol said:
OK. Here's an attempt at a civil discussion about this. I will agree that neither are preferable, but here we are. From "Freewill"
'You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice'

Even if you stay home.

But here's what I see with each passing day. The left is out to get Trump at all costs. That's it. They are not running on their record of anything, unless you believe the quota hire that stands at the podium in the WH every day. They have indicted him numerous times (unprecedented I might add), and nothing of note has stuck. A judge hands down a bigger fine than Bernie Madoff received - and HE had real VICTIMS - only to see it reduced in the 11th hour. It is STILL an egregious fine for a victimless 'crime' (I still don't know what the 'crime' was.) Paul Navarro sits in prison, while Hunter Biden walks free and he openly (figuratively) gave congress the middle finger. Joe Biden was NEVER authorized to have ANY classified material in his personal possession. EVER. Yet he does. And no charges. I could go on, and I think you probably get my point.

If Trump wins, it will be because the American public wakes up to the immense corruption level of this administration... the democrat party in general.

What say you?
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I agree as to the fine. Ridiculous and properly rectified. As to your clump of Navarro and Hunter Biden, those cases aren't remotely similar. It's difficult to discuss and /or debate such a comparison, unless you're not interested in nuance or distinctively different details. Trump has no facking business being POTUS nor does Biden, for entirely different reasons.
 
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#15,716
#15,716
05_never_again said:
What the **** are you talking about?

85% of the party voted with Trump at least 85% of the time. Something like 75% of the party voted with him 9 out of 10 times. She is right in the middle of that 85% group that voted with Trump 85% of the time (she was 93%).
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You're moving the goal posts. 71 Republicans voted with Trump's publicly stated position less than 90% of the time. And you are a flat out liar.
 
#15,718
#15,718
BowlBrother85 said:
You're moving the goal posts.
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Nope. 3 out of every 4 R members voted with him at least 90% of the time. That's a handful (25%) that did not. There are a ton more members clustered at 88-89% and even more down to 85%. If you consider that to be a statistically significant difference to 90%, then you are being pedantic.

The way you described it, Liz was some outlier Republican because she voted with him 93% of the time. She is right smack dab in the median of her Republican colleagues in terms of how often she voted with Trump.
 
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#15,719
#15,719
05_never_again said:
Nope. 3 out of every 4 R members voted with him at least 90% of the time. That's a handful (25%) that did not. There are a ton more members clustered at 88-89% and even more down to 85%. If you consider that to be a statistically significant difference to 90%, then you are being pedantic.

The way you described it, Liz was some outlier Republican because she voted with him 93% of the time. She is right smack dab in the median of her Republican colleagues in terms of how often she voted with Trump.
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71 is more than just a handful .... You are moving the goal posts, splitting hairs .... and lying about it.
 
#15,722
#15,722
Liz Cheney did vote with Trump most of the time. Her problem was she got to the point where Trump rage was all she could talk about. It became her identity. She made her constituents choose between her and Trump. Big mistake since she wasn’t running against him. She lost the contest.
 
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#15,724
#15,724
BowlBrother85 said:
www.newsweek.com

Donald Trump may be closer to bankruptcy than it seems

The former president needs more money to keep his businesses afloat, according to one financial analyst.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

From the article :

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" 'Donald Trump may be in a worse financial situation than most people think,' a financial analyst has said.

Jon Gabrielsen, an Atlanta-based market economist, told Newsweek that Trump's liquidity problems may be more acute than they first appear, as businesses need extra cash in reserve to avoid bankruptcy.

He said Trump was '.... screwed, blued and tattooed,' unless he can come up with more cash to pay his court awards."

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The most surprising aspect of this whole thing, is how little liquidity Trump seems to have.
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You hate to see it happen to a guy that wiped his ass with the golden rule.
 
#15,725
#15,725
n_huffhines said:
I don't know how he keeps surprising me but he do

View attachment 630114
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Trump is going to run out of real estate on the "Biden is a senile old man" platform, if he keeps coining words such as "disinformates" and "misinformates." You can always tell when Trump has posted one of his own messages, rather than it coming from a campaign surrogate.

And who does he think he is kidding with the "I'm not running to terminate the ACA," line? Repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was one of three signature 2016 Presidential Election Campaign pledges, that he did not follow through with. That is also counting building a new stretch of border wall, with Mexico paying for it, and reducing the debt (Trump actually said he would eliminate the debt while President).

Donald Trump is a moron, without a trace of self-awareness.
 
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