2020 qb comparison/talk/debate (merged)

[Behr]

Thats some of the biggest bullsh!t I've read on this site outside of a Grumors thread. Those exact words are what are directed at ANYONE who doesn't town the orange koolaid line while wearing orange sunglasses and riding the seatless bicycle of blind rabid living vicariously through others successes but not failures fandom. Further, if you don't know what it means when someone has an agenda regarding a particular player especially when they aren't good then I guess I'll see you in that cold lake. Only difference is I'll be hitting you with a massive wake from my jet ski while you tread water looking for an orange life preserver.

Umm, Lol. No, its not. What you just said in bold is though. Fact.

 

[k-town_king]

You are so dishonest you can't even read clearly. I deal with a lot of people both on line and in person. You are at a "special" level.

Just more dishonesty from you... and projection. Can't actually speak in definitive terms for him.

I want a QB first and foremost who can handle the pressure and mental/decision making aspects of the game. He has to possess confidence and moxie... without rubbing his team mates the wrong way. He has to be a leader that his team trusts and respects... all of them not just some. After that, arm talent and accuracy. Anything more is a bonus. You apply another qualifier... I don't.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. He hasn't had a single practice much less a live down of college football. But if it is Maurer? Shrout? No need to ask about Hill... he would obviously have your support.


I've said specifically why I do not think he will be a college QB UNLESS he develops a better arm. You are so reactionary that you think it has to be something else. It simply isn't.

So if you truly wanted those things you would have never liked QD and BM over Dobbs and JG.

Why would I like Hill? I mean we know why you don't.

But no. I'm not a Hill fan. He was pretty bad to mediocre at UM. I don't mention BM and JTS because they were even worse than Hill at Maryland. Hill has better numbers than both and played well in a wins.

HB is talented and highly ranked. Imo he will be the next qb.

You are trying to make something up to justify your bias. UT's official account says throwing power is one of his strengths. Chaney said his football iq at the qb position was a strength.

So go with what the coaches think or continuing to act like you know better than them to justify your agenda.

 

[k-town_king]

This is not a dig on JG, however I do find it absolutely ridiculous that those that support him over Maurer seem to forget that Maurer didn’t spend half the season throwing check downs and building his comp %. But Rather Maurer came out guns blazing and throwing downfield. News flash to those that want to Use his stats against him: the farther the pass is downfield, the lower the percentage of it being completed. It’s also very easy to only look at stats as a basis for those with little memory. He threw 5 ints. I remember 2 of those bouncing off of the receiver (UF, Bama) and one more that was literally TWO plays after nearly breaking his neck. So that 5 could just as easily been 2.

He threw a higher percentage of screens than JG.
JG had a higher percentage of his yards through the air than BM.

You are wrong like usual. We have the stats and I have posted them several times.


JG threw way more passes. A few of his ints could be non existent too. Then he would be at 2 or 3 ints with way more passes. What is your point?

BM played like a freshman. I don't know why that is so hard to admit. He wasn't as good as a Jr. No shame in that.

 

[1vol8]

He threw a higher percentage of screens than JG.
JG had a higher percentage of his yards through the air than BM.

You are wrong like usual. We have the stats and I have posted them several times.


JG threw way more passes. A few of his ints could be non existent too. Then he would be at 2 or 3 ints with way more passes. What is your point?

BM played like a freshman. I don't know why that is so hard to admit. He wasn't as good as a Jr. No shame in that.

The stats you’re getting are questionable to say the least to begin with. Second there is no one arguing that he played like a freshman AT TIMES. But to continuously criticize him over stats that were out of his control is BS. You know damn well most of his passes were downfield if you actually WATCHED him play. You know damn well how many drops there were and you know damn well that 47% includes them as well as the throw aways. Bottom line.... you know damn well he played MUCH better than expected and MUCH better than you’re giving him credit for.

 

[sjt18]

So if you truly wanted those things you would have never liked QD and BM over Dobbs and JG.

I never liked QD over Dobbs. I STRONGLY argued for Dobbs over Peterman. I supported QD over JG because he earned the job in spite of Jones' effort to do what he ultimately did... give JG the job. I defended AND criticized QD. You were never honest or objective for a very obvious reason.

Why would I like Hill? I mean we know why you don't.

Where have I EVER said I don't like him? I don't know that much about him. He didn't have good numbers at Maryland... but they were pretty much a dumpster fire. If he comes out of this fight as the surprise... I'll be as happy as any other outcome.

HB is talented and highly ranked. Imo he will be the next qb.

You'd have less arguments if you said that more often. But... I don't believe it is nearly that simple.

You are trying to make something up to justify your bias.

My bias is pretty much recognized by everyone here except you... I want UT to have great QB play. Don't care about melanin. I care about character, talent, and performance.

UT's official account says throwing power is one of his strengths. Chaney said his football iq at the qb position was a strength.

You have eyes. Stop being stubborn in your ignorance and watch his video compared to JG or any other good SEC QB. If his arm strength doesn't get better... he will not be a QB at UT. You can keep citing recruiting fluff or you can actually educate yourself.

So go with what the coaches think or continuing to act like you know better than them to justify your agenda.

You don't go with what the coaches think. You're twisting those "facts" like you have stats and everything else.

I have one agenda.... and have never claimed to know more than a coach or more than what I know. I know that the passes thrown in Holiday's video do NOT demonstrate the arm strength needed to succeed in the SEC. That's all I have to base an opinion on and all I've ever claimed to have. Unlike you, I am not clairvoyant... I can't "know" what is in an 18 page plan that I haven't had the chance to read.

 

[lifeisdeep]

Your post about my post being irrelevant is even more irrelevant.

People that want him to transfer are dumb when the other options are guys that were worse last year and two true freshmen. lmao


I don't have to prove that. That was established a couple of years ago.

It was an interesting tidbit.

You have a very poor understanding of the word, "worse." Maurer and Shrout were both light-years better than JG was when he had had only a handful of game reps, as they had had when they got to play this year. There were times when both of them were better, period, than JG has been for most of this season.

And if you can't understand the difference between a middling, lower-tier SEC QB and one who comes in and dominates as a freshman, like Ainge did his freshman year when we went 10-2 and played in the SEC championship, then you have no understanding of football, or just aren't paying attention.

Lastly, anyone who claims that a redshirt junior who went 6 of 17 for 120 yards, one TD and one INT against a 3-8 Candy team is our best option at QB is either related to said player, a close friend, or the player himself.

 

[PulaskiVolFan]

Disagree. He's a mediocre QB (and the best we had on the roster in 19) that has some significant strengths and significant weaknesses to his game. He's been dealt a tough hand with skill players, line play, coordinators, etc. for the majority of the time he's been here. With that being said, he's nowhere near the QB that @PulaskiVolFan and @k-town_king and their cherry picked stats will indicate...

I've never said he was great, and the cherry picked stats you refer to are every single stat they keep and in 95% of them he rates in the top half of the SEC and in the stats you neverJG guys say he's bad at are generally the exact opposite and some of his strengths. A problem the JG crowd has with the neverJG crowd is how disrespectful you are of a kid that has clearly given his all to the program and continues to do so today despite some pretty tasteless fan opinions of him. The only hurdle JG has left to accomplish is to win more big games than he loses. He'll get that chance next year and I believe he'll get over the hurdle and the Vols will win a couple of the big 4 games next season. If JG was bottom half of the league in stats I'd be the 1st one on here looking for his replacement. If Tua and Fromm go pro then the best returning QBs in the league next year will be Trask, Monde, JG and Nix (who I think will have a terrible So season). Spin it however you want but we're in great shape at the QB position next year and JG is a big reason for that.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

If people were only just saying THAT I would be ok with it because it’s true. It’s the BS I have a problem with. And I agree he wasn’t himself in the limited time vs UK but he was getting better with each possession as well. I know he was told not to run in that game which is half his his style of play so it only makes sense he wasn’t himself.

Sup man. Warned you 1st time I saw ya...need thick skin round here. People are real shtupid. Glad you're here though.

Maurer had 2 tipped, IIRC the other 3 were just dumb decisions. Threw into double coverage, I think one was almost triple. He didnt see a safety underneath. It happens. Hes a freshman. That's a freshman mistake. Hell Peyton set the record for picks in a season his rookie year. 21 or 22? Anybody who knows football expects a freshman to make mistakes like that. He showed however, that he has a good arm, nice touch, and he can flat run. That's great. High ceiling with a player like that. Film study and experience can take away those deficiencies.

JG on the other hand...is tough as hell. No doubt. Has guts and mental toughness to go through what he did this year. I respect him as a man...and hes only 21 I think. I am 42. That speaks volumes. Heres the truth that his nuthuggers and racist supporters will not admit: he is terribly inaccurate. Terribly. The worst I have ever seen at UT on swing passes that should be automatic, always throws either late or behind his WR...even the TV guys comment about it.. repeatedly which is embarrassing BTW...he is just not AT ALL an accurate QB. Nor does he have a strong arm. Shrout and Maurer both throw with more power, and Maurer has better touch too...

In truth JGs late season resurgence happened because he just swallowed his nerves and started chucking 50/50 balls that could have easily been intercepted on intermediate and deep routes. Jennings and Callaway just did VERY good jobs taking those balls away from DBs or outjumping/reaching them due to their size. Go watch tape. They weren't accurate passes 90% of the time.. in fact, several were SO far behind the WR that the corners ran themselves out of the play. Dont believe me? Watch the tape. It doesnt lie. Its not a "backshoulder" throw when the ball is 4 or 5 yards too short...its a limp noodle and a hell of a play by veteran, senior WR.

If this seasons JG is next years starter...with only Palmer, Johnson, and rookies...lookout. That's about the only thing that will keep us from winning 8 games, maybe 9. We just need decent QB play next year. Not great. Decent play will give us a good season. JG has never put together a decent, consistent, average SEC QB season. He is 0 for 3.

What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same stupid thing over and over, expecting different results???

Hope CJP isnt insane next season. I really like coach.

 

[Devo182]

Now, I don't work on these types of articles and am only speaking as an individual with my own opinion, but:

Needs to account for depth of targets.

JG had the 2nd highest ADOT (average depth of target) in the league. His depth-adjusted accuracy was 6th in the SEC, ahead of Fromm.

Depth adjustments don't turn him elite, but much better than this reflects.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Take your dig all you want, I’m not concerned or interested with a journeyman qb who struggled at Central Michigan. What I’m concerned with is the future of Tennessee’s QB position and nobody paying attention can possibly believe that this team, this program can get to the championship level or make a huge stride towards that level next year, with Jarrett Guarantano playing quarterback for us.

This year JG had a higher floor because despite flashing during a great first half vs the best defense we played this year, Maurer couldn’t stay healthy and get on the field to get the time experience he needed to take the job. But make no mistake, Maurer has a much higher ceiling than Guarantano, we all saw it in spurts and we’ll see it in spades once Maurer gets another year with Chaney to learn the playbook and concepts Chaney runs. JG has been in college for 4 years, Maurer only a year.

And then there’s Bailey....

So if i understand you...

Another year with Chaney and his system will help your guy but wont equally help the Vol player you hate?


Gotcha....you weren't on the debate team in HS, I gather.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

JG is one of the main reasons we made it to a bowl game.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

that's exactly my point..... you're talking made-up stuff. Your eye test. But sometimes stats do not lie. Fact, if JG's stats were anywhere near as bad as Maurers the AD's office would have been burnt to the ground. But since people hate on JG every completion Maurer threw was the most beautiful pass in the history of football. But when you look at the numbers and results there is no argument because you cannot argue. IF Maurers stats were even in the same zip code you would have a point. They were not so ignoring stats and actual results is silly. People are blaming the GSU loss on JG.. we scored 30 points....he threw for over 300 yards 2 tds 1 pick and 65% completion percentage.

Our DEFENSE lost both those games period. In both those games, our offense played well enough and scored enough points to win. JG was not the reason we lost either of those games period. This is the truth...I have never argued that JG is the best QB in the world or even a really good one. I only argue he is the BEST QB on his team currently. The fact that people hate on him so much they ignore that the backups are not the answer is what annoys me. I can name probably 8-10 better QB's in the SEC this season but none of them are on this team.

That mentality is the same thing that got us in the situation we are just now getting out of we kept firing coaches without making sure we had a better replacement. We fired Fulmer Before we had a better option to move forward on. We fired Dooley without knowing we had someone interested in the job that was an upgrade. Every time we said it couldn't get worse it did because of hubris and impatience. Thus Far CJP is looking like a good hire because we fixed the root cause (the AD). I said at the beginning of the season JG was our best chance to win games and make a bowl. I kept saying it all season never wavering and it has proven true. Would the smart move to start Maurer all year and let him develop? Probably and I would have been ok with that. But I realize that would have meant missing another bowl because the kid ain't ready yet. It is so hilarious that JG's career (as far as haters) is mirroring that of Dobbs right now. It wasn't until his senior year, and the very end of that, his doubters finally gave in.

Dobbs was a playmaker. JG never has been. Poor Qb play lost the first 2 games. Maurer and JT when given enough snaps have showed more ability than JG. We are not going to reconcile our opinions on this. My “eye test” is an opinion on what I observed so to state it is made-up does not hold water. Coaches base an opinion on “eye tests” all the time. So do fans and recruiting analysts. JG is ranked in the article as a poor Qb. That is factual whether you agree with their conclusions or not.

 

[1vol8]

Sup man. Warned you 1st time I saw ya...need thick skin round here. People are real shtupid. Glad you're here though.

Maurer had 2 tipped, IIRC the other 3 were just dumb decisions. Threw into double coverage, I think one was almost triple. He didnt see a safety underneath. It happens. Hes a freshman. That's a freshman mistake. Hell Peyton set the record for picks in a season his rookie year. 21 or 22? Anybody who knows football expects a freshman to make mistakes like that. He showed however, that he has a good arm, nice touch, and he can flat run. That's great. High ceiling with a player like that. Film study and experience can take away those deficiencies.

JG on the other hand...is tough as hell. No doubt. Has guts and mental toughness to go through what he did this year. I respect him as a man...and hes only 21 I think. I am 42. That speaks volumes. Heres the truth that his nuthuggers and racist supporters will not admit: he is terribly inaccurate. Terribly. The worst I have ever seen at UT on swing passes that should be automatic, always throws either late or behind his WR...even the TV guys comment about it.. repeatedly which is embarrassing BTW...he is just not AT ALL an accurate QB. Nor does he have a strong arm. Shrout and Maurer both throw with more power, and Maurer has better touch too...

In truth JGs late season resurgence happened because he just swallowed his nerves and started chucking 50/50 balls that could have easily been intercepted on intermediate and deep routes. Jennings and Callaway just did VERY good jobs taking those balls away from DBs or outjumping/reaching them due to their size. Go watch tape. They weren't accurate passes 90% of the time.. in fact, several were SO far behind the WR that the corners ran themselves out of the play. Dont believe me? Watch the tape. It doesnt lie. Its not a "backshoulder" throw when the ball is 4 or 5 yards too short...its a limp noodle and a hell of a play by veteran, senior WR.

If this seasons JG is next years starter...with only Palmer, Johnson, and rookies...lookout. That's about the only thing that will keep us from winning 8 games, maybe 9. We just need decent QB play next year. Not great. Decent play will give us a good season. JG has never put together a decent, consistent, average SEC QB season. He is 0 for 3.

What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same stupid thing over and over, expecting different results???

Hope CJP isnt insane next season. I really like coach.

I’m a film junkie tbh so trust me when I tell you I know what you mean. I must have watched the UK game at least 10 times and no less for the others. That’s also why I’m so bothered by untrue claims. I like JG. I hope he does well every time he’s out there but from my experience, the games I watched, idc what the “stats” say. Stats lie. Film doesn’t and Maurer was as prone to mistakes as any freshman is but on the flip side he was prone to big plays as well. Idk how anyone else felt with him in but when I seen 18 out there I just had a feeling, every second of the game, that something big was about to happen at any moment and Right on cue most of the time he delivered and usually on 3rd down.

As I said above I support JG as well so don’t get it twisted but everything you wrote is correct. I’ve tried to explain the difference in accuracy vs decision making to a few that obviously don’t WANT to listen but regardless of what the “stats” say Maurer is head and shoulders above JG in accuracy on game day. He’s behind in decision making as any freshman vs a junior should be. Time itself will fix that. If we have to lose 1 out of our qb room eventually then I feel strongly we will regret it being Maurer if it came to that.

 

[1vol8]

Dobbs was a playmaker. JG never has been. Poor Qb play lost the first 2 games. Maurer and JT when given enough snaps have showed more ability than JG. We are not going to reconcile our opinions on this. My “eye test” is an opinion on what I observed so to state it is made-up does not hold water. Coaches base an opinion on “eye tests” all the time. So do fans and recruiting analysts. JG is ranked in the article as a poor Qb. That is factual whether you agree with their conclusions or not.

GREAT POINT! Kind of wish I thought of that one. What you just referred to is called EVALUATION.

 

[Grudenator]

 

[irish1485]

Poor Qb play lost the first 2 games.

We gave up 38 points, 238 yards rushing, 5 TDs to Ga State offense.. We were up 3 with 1:01 left vs BYU, we gave up a 64 yard pass on 3rd down when the game should have been won. Poor defense lost us the first 2 games also. This entire team got better over the season but putting the first 2 losses on 1 player shows your bias.. JG was far from the only thing wrong with this team early on.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Can't see the PFF article, but from what I've seen, I suspect this ranking is too low. I don't think JG is a top 10 QB or anything, but probably more middle of the pack (30ish) of the bowl QBs. Out of SEC QBs this season, he has the 4th highest QBR and 3rd highest YPA. His accuracy fell this season, but his YPA increased, which means he's been making more big plays. Biggest issue has been consistency; early season he was awful, then started playing well for much of the mid- to late- season, but still had some bad games (e.g. Vandy).

Still easily the best QB on our roster this season. Shrout and Maurer have higher upside, but both were much more mistake-prone as well.

I agree that JG is not going to lead us to an SEC Championship or anything, but don't think he's in the bottom third of bowl QBs either (he's in the top half of SEC QBs and the SEC is the best conference). I think he holds onto the starting job next year and 2021 will be a battle between Bailey and Maurer. Though, I wouldn't go so far as to say he couldn't be unseated next season; just that there's a greater than 50% chance that he retains the starting job.

 

[VolInNW]

So KB was throwing shade at JG?

All I did was post the Dormady ranking with no added comment.

I guess pFF was the one throwing shade.

Good grief. This just isn't that hard to get.

JG is a good kid. Tough as heck. Smart. He's got guts. He tries his best to make his team win. He is a VFL that I would proudly break bread with at any time.

But he just isn't a upper tier SEC QB, I'd say he is lower tier at best. The game moves too fast for him. He underthrows or throws too late on long routes, and fires dump passes at 150mph. The 14-18 yard intermediate swing pass is the one thing he is consistently good at. He is not a QB that is going to score more than 24-28 points per game, and he is not a 10 win QB. If we are content with 7-5 or 6-6 next year, he is serviceable as a starter.

HB comes in with a huge amount of hype. Is he that good? Who knows. I do know that if I'm CJP, I'm sure as $%&# going to look at the transfer portal and see if a grad transfer or other QB option is out there to get me through next season. Not a championship QB, just someone who will throw when a receiver is open, has a touch on dump passes, and can read a blitz to allow his team to NOT be forced to line up with 2 TEs in order to give him time to slowly process the play. I would develop HB as my starter for 2021.

If we trot JG out there as our 12 game starter next season, look forward to a mediocre season, and I think the seat under CJP gets warm to hot in a hurry.

So, see? You can be against JG being our starter without 'hating' the kid. In fact, I kinda like his swagger and attitude most of the time. He just isn't a solid SEC QB IMHO.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

We gave up 38 points, 238 yards rushing, 5 TDs to Ga State offense.. We were up 3 with 1:01 left vs BYU, we gave up a 64 yard pass on 3rd down when the game should have been won. Poor defense lost us the first 2 games also. This entire team got better over the season but putting the first 2 losses on 1 player shows your bias.. JG was far from the only thing wrong with this team early on.

Defense was in the field too long because the offense could not make first downs. We win if we had good Qb play.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

Can't see the PFF article, but from what I've seen, I suspect this ranking is too low. I don't think JG is a top 10 QB or anything, but probably more middle of the pack (30ish) of the bowl QBs. Out of SEC QBs this season, he has the 4th highest QBR and 3rd highest YPA. His accuracy fell this season, but his YPA increased, which means he's been making more big plays. Biggest issue has been consistency; early season he was awful, then started playing well for much of the mid- to late- season, but still had some bad games (e.g. Vandy).

Still easily the best QB on our roster this season. Shrout and Maurer have higher upside, but both were much more mistake-prone as well.

I agree that JG is not going to lead us to an SEC Championship or anything, but don't think he's in the bottom third of bowl QBs either (he's in the top half of SEC QBs and the SEC is the best conference). I think he holds onto the starting job next year and 2021 will be a battle between Bailey and Maurer. Though, I wouldn't go so far as to say he couldn't be unseated next season; just that there's a greater than 50% chance that he retains the starting job.

If Bailey has confidence he will be the starter. If competition is open with BM and JT still here , they will be higher on the depth chart.

 

[TNnative]

View attachment 247595

Is this something we didn't already know?

 

[DiderotsGhost]

If Bailey has confidence he will be the starter. If competition is open with BM and JT still here , they will be higher on the depth chart.

I doubt confidence will be the issue. Maurer had more confidence than JG, but that's also why he threw a lot of INTs. Bigger question is how quick Bailey can adapt to SEC level defenses. The fact that he's played a lot of tough competition in high school helps, but the SEC is a whole 'nother level.

Still remember Peyton's first year. It was obvious he was going to be good, but he struggled at times as a Freshman; by Sophomore year, he was an elite QB. If Colquitt and Helton hadn't been injured, it's possible Peyton wouldn't have played much till Sophomore year.

 

[cgrish]

Please, you can do better. You left room on the first page for some to comment on your EXTREME dislike of JG. Better get your whining in gear for next year, because if he doesn't transfer, JG will be the starting QB next year until they feel Harrison Bailey or Jimmy Holiday are ready to take over.

Imo jg will be qb next yr regardless of how good the others play. We would have won at least 2 more games this yr with either of the backups.

 

[cgrish]

View attachment 247595

Exactly what most on here have been saying. Jg gets his stats on check downs and short passes. Good stats all but points scored.

 

[2GeeZ4VolZ]

So KB was throwing shade at JG?

All I did was post the Dormady ranking with no added comment.

I guess pFF was the one throwing shade.

I just thought you were pointing out that PFF misspelled “Dormandy”