2020 Primaries

[zaqhhh]

You want to compare Europe to us now ? That’s a losing argument for you and not counting that I don’t give a rats butt what Europe does or does not do . We left there 400 years ago to get away from them

When they are rated better in Healthcare, Education, and Income Equity then yes.

If America was doing everything the best, then we can ignore other countries. But we aren't so instead of saying we Europe, why don't we actually take a lesson on what worked.

 

[0nelilreb]

Did FDR do that?

He literally had the Republican Party calling him a socialist wackjob the entire time! Yet the market seemed to do ok.

It is generally our trickle down conservatives that wreck the economy.

FDR and LBJ started the Ponzi schemes that we have today .

 

[0nelilreb]

When they are rated better in Healthcare, Education, and Income Equity then yes.

If America was doing everything the best, then we can ignore other countries. But we aren't so instead of saying we Europe, why don't we actually take a lesson on what worked.

When they reach our population , with our freedoms , and invest what we invest then i may pay attention to them .

 

[zaqhhh]

FDR and LBJ started the Ponzi schemes that we have today .

Well at least you are consistent. I'll give you that. Conservatives today couldn't stand a president like FDR. Someone who actually worked for the people and not the elites.

 

[0nelilreb]

When they are rated better in Healthcare, Education, and Income Equity then yes.

If America was doing everything the best, then we can ignore other countries. But we aren't so instead of saying we Europe, why don't we actually take a lesson on what worked.

We did take lessons . We figured out by watching Europe crumble that Capitalism is better by far than any other system .

 

[ETV]

Also, I love how the Trumpers on this thread are doing the exact same thing to Bernie as liberals did with Trump.

"He can't possibly win."

I'm on the left but I acknowledged that Trump was tapping into righteous anger and had I believed him, I would have voted for him.

Now half this thread is calling him a commie, a word they clearly can't differentiate from Democratic Socialism or Social Democracy.

When a significant portion of the voting base grew up in the cold war era and remember everything they were taught regarding communism/socialism, Sanders will not win the election.

 

[zaqhhh]

When they reach our population , with our freedoms , and invest what we invest then i may pay attention to them .

They aren't going to reach out population simply based on land mass... That doesn't mean we ignore their policies.

What freedoms are you afraid to lose? The freedom to not have healthcare? To not have education?

 

[0nelilreb]

Well at least you are consistent. I'll give you that. Conservatives today couldn't stand a president like FDR. Someone who actually worked for the people and not the elites.

I don’t mind politicians that work for the people . They always seem to come with a price though . That’s where we have to figure out the least expensive one to vote for

 

[zaqhhh]

When a significant portion of the voting base grew up in the cold war era and remember everything they were taught regarding communism/socialism, Sanders will not win the election.

Yeah I just don't believe that, nearly everyone already knows Sanders stances and yet he polls favorably to Trump in both favorability and electability.

And before we have people screaming about polls in 2016. Most were not wrong, they said Clinton would win by 3, she won by 3. Just lost the electoral college.

 

[0nelilreb]

They aren't going to reach out population simply based on land mass... That doesn't mean we ignore their policies.

What freedoms are you afraid to lose? The freedom to not have healthcare? To not have education?

My constitutional freedoms that I already have , higher taxes for what we already know are going to be failing programs because the government isn’t now nor ever was supposed to be in the business of running a business model . History tells us our government sucks at it and we keep wanting them to do more of it .

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

So you can grow the debt indefinitely without harming the economy? They aren't linked at all?

lol. A bernie supporter even broaching this subject is hysterical

 

[zaqhhh]

My constitutional freedoms that I already have , higher taxes for what we already know are going to be failing programs because the government isn’t now nor ever was supposed to be in the business of running a business model . History tells us our government sucks at it and we keep wanting them to do more of it .

That's just categorically wrong.

Why does our private capitalist model of healthcare cost 2x more per person than the next closest country while failing to insure everyone? Not to mention underinsuring a huge percentage more?

 

[TrumpedUpVol]

Bernie's tax plan
So I found the Bernie Sanders Tax calculator and if you make $175,000-200,000 (which is middle class)
You will pay $700-to $1,500 more in taxes.

Yep; sorry, not eager to pay a dime more in taxes so that illegal immigrants have the “right” to free healthcare and comped college.

 

[hog88]

Did FDR do that?

He literally had the Republican Party calling him a socialist wackjob the entire time! Yet the market seemed to do ok.

It is generally our trickle down conservatives that wreck the economy.

FDR was a tyrant that we are lucky to have survived.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

Also, I love how the Trumpers on this thread are doing the exact same thing to Bernie as liberals did with Trump.

"He can't possibly win."

I'm on the left but I acknowledged that Trump was tapping into righteous anger and had I believed him, I would have voted for him.

Now half this thread is calling him a commie, a word they clearly can't differentiate from Democratic Socialism or Social Democracy.

I understand the comparison you’re making but I think it’s superficial. Trump came from left of center and moved right to win over the Republican party. If he had started at far right and moved even further right he would not have won. Sanders is hard left and on the verge of taking the Democratic party so much farther left that he’s apt to lead them off the proverbial cliff. jmo.

There are some yuge differences between the candidacies of Trump and Sanders. It’s not just about being an outsider or insurgent. jmo.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

That's just categorically wrong.

Why does our private capitalist model of healthcare cost 2x more per person than the next closest country while failing to insure everyone? Not to mention underinsuring a huge percentage more?

Lord have mercy, are you for real?

 

[zaqhhh]

FDR was a tyrant that we are lucky to have survived.

Clearly I am working with a bunch of 50-75 year old conservatives who think FDR was the devil and Sanders is his 2nd coming.

Yeah I'll go ahead and punt you all to Trump.

 

[hog88]

Clearly I am working with a bunch of 50-75 year old conservatives who think FDR was the devil and Sanders is his 2nd coming.

Yeah I'll go ahead and punt you all to Trump.

Sanders isn’t the second coming of FDR, not even close. Sanders does’t have 1/4 of the intellect FDR did however both believe in the absolute rule of the federal government.

 

[zaqhhh]

I understand the comparison you’re making but I think it’s superficial. Trump came from left of center and moved right to win over the Republican party. If he had started at far right and moved even further right he would not have won. Sanders is hard left and on the verge of taking the Democratic party so much farther left that he’s apt to lead them off the proverbial cliff. jmo.

There are some yuge differences between the candidacies of Trump and Sanders. It’s not just about being an outsider or insurgent. jmo.

I don't know one person that voted for Trump because he "started left." He was just all over the place like he is today.

One thing that Bernie always polls well in is honesty and consistency and "cares about people like me"

Now sure there are many that just don't like the ideology he is espousing but there are many who would rather have that than Trump who just changes stances on a whim when it's politically convenient.

 

[Weezer]

When they are rated better in Healthcare, Education, and Income Equity then yes.

If America was doing everything the best, then we can ignore other countries. But we aren't so instead of saying we Europe, why don't we actually take a lesson on what worked.

When it comes to serious conditions, those Europeans that can afford it come here for medical care. Europe may have better ratings in healthcare when it comes to quantity, but they don't have it in quality. And I'm not against healthcare for all, we just need to find a way to realistically pay for it.

 

[0nelilreb]

That's just categorically wrong.

Why does our private capitalist model of healthcare cost 2x more per person than the next closest country while failing to insure everyone? Not to mention underinsuring a huge percentage more?

Because we as a country spend more capital on R&D than any other country . Free is never free . Everything cost money and Bernie has a math problem between what he’s saying it will cost and what he’s telling people he will have to charge to make these things viable . What good is it going to do to force people on a government programs if it’s garbage?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Clearly I am working with a bunch of 50-75 year old conservatives who think FDR was the devil and Sanders is his 2nd coming.

Yeah I'll go ahead and punt you all to Trump.

And you are clearly a 23 year old idealist who has yet to move out of the folk's basement and actually work for a living

 

[hog88]

Because we as a country spend more capital on R&D than any other country . Free is never free . Everything cost money and Bernie has a math problem between what he’s saying it will cost and what he’s telling people he will have to charge to make these things viable . What good is it going to do to force people on a government programs if it’s garbage?

What people refuse to acknowledge is without our capitalistic healthcare system people wold still be dying from illnesses we cure with a couple pills now.

 

[ETV]

Yeah I just don't believe that, nearly everyone already knows Sanders stances and yet he polls favorably to Trump in both favorability and electability.

And before we have people screaming about polls in 2016. Most were not wrong, they said Clinton would win by 3, she won by 3. Just lost the electoral college.

She lost where it counts. In regards to your polls statement, a significant portion of those predicted she would win by a considerable margin and the talking heads within the MSM believed that as it was written in stone. Once the true numbers began coming in, feces hit the rotary oscillator.

 

[zaqhhh]

Because we as a country spend more capital on R&D than any other country . Free is never free . Everything cost money and Bernie has a math problem between what he’s saying it will cost and what he’s telling people he will have to charge to make these things viable . What good is it going to do to force people on a government programs if it’s garbage?

The reason our country pays more is that we have so many different payers and private companies charge whatever they want to at a largely unchecked rate.

And guess what? You already pay for other people's healthcare! When an uninsured person goes to the hospital, they still get treated. Then they go bankrupt, the hospital has to eat the costs, and costs end up increasing on everyone.

For a capitalist market to work (and sometimes it does) a consumer has to have both choice and the ability to weigh options.

Healthcare is not a market where choice can be greatly excercised. If I get in a car accident, I go to the nearest hospital, not "hmm let me see who will take care of me for the best price."

The government in other countries negotiates drug prices (which we can't do), tells many medical companies what they can charge, and by insuring all promotes preventative care so that less healthcare is needed in the first place.

Most Canadians, Brits, Nordic residents wouldn't dream of trading their system for ours.