2020 Presidential Race

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Wow, this is a total shocker, I know......it's just unbelievable the favoritism from these pos News shows:

CNN, MSNBC avoid Clinton's wild Gabbard conspiracy theory during primetime

When will they stop defending this crazy ole bag lady......she's not the Queen of America.
I suppose they aren't ready for a clean suicide w/three bullets to the back of the head just yet. Pathetic.

 

[Persian Vol]

@Persian Vol

How will you feel as a doctor under single payer when that single payer starts telling you how much you can charge and who you have to see?

I’m not sure why you assume that there is no negotiation process. The private sector currently forces us to choose who we can and cannot see due to the incredibly complex network system.

 

[hog88]

I’m sure why you assume that there is no negotiation process. The private sector currently forces us to choose who we can and cannot see due to the incredibly complex network system.

It’s no different than a business only having 1 customer, that customer in reality owns your business and can decide to pay you whatever they want.

 

[tvolsfan]

Wow, this is a total shocker, I know......it's just unbelievable the favoritism from these pos News shows:

CNN, MSNBC avoid Clinton's wild Gabbard conspiracy theory during primetime

When will they stop defending this crazy ole bag lady......she's not the Queen of America.
I suppose they aren't ready for a clean suicide w/three bullets to the back of the head just yet. Pathetic.

Gee, I can’t figure out why they aren’t covering a feud between two people with one percent support combined in the polls.

 

[Persian Vol]

Gotta stop you right there. Warren and Sanders are advocating for a system wherein there is a single payer: the US Treasury.

I don't know how you treat the only person who pays you money, but I call them boss and do whatever they want me to do. If, as in the proposed system, they were the only people who could possibly pay me, just what would their incentive not to abuse that unique position be? Zero, and I'd be working too long for too little. Which, ironically, wouldn't be too good for my health.

The whole Warren/Sanders "plan" is simply to collapse the private market because it's evil. If the government doesn't come in then with guarantees to prop up the remaining infrastructure, there is no way this works. Whether private or public institutions "own" the buildings and employee the doctors is irrelevant. There will be no other market where those hospitals and doctors can earn a livelihood under Warren and Sanders. Best case scenario, we trade private corruption for public corruption and incompetence and more people die in the interim during the transition.

The sheer hubris is staggering.

That the Mayor of Pawnee (or wherever Pete is from) gets this, but people who are actually in the Senate don't, is pretty shocking.

Could you rephrase this in actual detail, rather than broad personal opinion?

 

[Persian Vol]

It’s no different than a business only having 1 customer, that customer in reality owns your business and can decide to pay you whatever they want.

Please explain how you envision this to happen in reality.

 

[Persian Vol]

You have little leverage now. Back when people paid their own way you would have a good bit of leverage.

Just like school costs going up with attendance, medical costs go up the more time timmy goes in for the sniffles.

Single payer would be no better than insurance for putting control back in the hands of people. At least I can tell an insurance company to shove it I'll find a new one.

A significant sum of Americans do not have this luxury.

 

[Velo Vol]

Bernie's going to get an AOC bump.

 

[Persian Vol]

Single payer scares me...no 2nd opinions and long wait times for treatments.

Wait times are often over exaggerated in other single payer countries. It’s not a coincidence that even the right wing party in England are supporters of NHS.

 

[Persian Vol]

You’re a resident or intern, right? Have you seen what Medicare/Medicaid pay providers/hospitals? There’s a reason there are very few providers in private practice anymore.
I’m not saying the entire system isn’t in need of repair, but Medicare for all? Good luck if you decide to go into private practice. No Mercedes or Audi for you.

Many physicians who practice in disadvantaged communities who have a high Medicaid population still have more than enough money to afford a Mercedes. The average salary for most primary care physicians (often the least compensated field) make between $180,000-$240,000 a year depending on the location, patient population, and how many patients they see.

 

[hog88]

Please explain how envision this to happen in reality.

Single payer/Medicare for all whatever you want to call it is ONE entity “insuring“ everyone. One entity paying the countries medical professionals which means that one entity can decide what they will pay medical professionals for their services. You have zero negotiating power when there is only 1.

 

[hog88]

A significant sum of Americans do not have this luxury.

Why punish the majority?

 

[Persian Vol]

Do we want socialism in the White House in the Democrats, especially if Bernie or Joe is the choice? Both want to change the medical programs! Bernie thinks Medicare for all. Is he nuts? The cost would definitely go up! Has to be a better plan! Joe would want Obamacare back! Is he a fool?
The federal minimum wage should be raised to a minimum of $11. It's been $7.25 for too long plus many states are raising it for 2020 or 2021 to $12 or $13 on or before 2022.
We also need to bring back more jobs to America. We lost too many jobs under the previous administration.

Is that you Donald?

 

[hog88]

Wait times are often over exaggerated in other single payer countries. It’s not a coincidence that even the right wing party in England are supporters of NHS.

The right wing party in England makes our Democrats look like hard core conservatives.

 

[hog88]

Many physicians who practice in disadvantaged communities who have a high Medicaid population still have more than enough money to afford a Mercedes. The average salary for most primary care physicians (often the least compensated field) make between $180,000-$240,000 a year depending on the location, patient population, and how many patients they see.

Have you ever looked at what doctors make in England?

 

[Persian Vol]

Why punish the majority?

How would they be punished?

 

[hog88]

How would they be punished?

If you abolish the private insurance industry in favor of a single payer system you are punishing the majority of Americans who have health insurance in favor of the minority that do not.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Bernie's going to get an AOC bump.

Ha.....like that's going to put him over the finish line for the win. He's got to beat Mayor Pete first says zep.

 

[Persian Vol]

Single payer/Medicare for all whatever you want to call it is ONE entity “insuring“ everyone. One entity paying the countries medical professionals which means that one entity can decide what they will pay medical professionals for their services. You have zero negotiating power when there is only 1.

I understand your logic, but I don’t see a reality in which the government would take a political position under a democratic system to voluntarily underpay physicians to the point that this doomsday scenario starts rolling in. It hasn’t happened in Canada, Japan, England and so on. So why base an argument off libertarian hypotheticals when reality has shown otherwise?

 

[Persian Vol]

The right wing party in England makes our Democrats look like hard core conservatives.

The Overton window in America has shifted so far right to the point in which we consider individuals like Bernie Sanders far left, but relative to much of the developed world he would be considered centrist to center left.

 

[Persian Vol]

Have you ever looked at what doctors make in England?

Yes.

 

[Persian Vol]

If you abolish the private insurance industry in favor of a single payer system you are punishing the majority of Americans who have health insurance in favor of the minority that do not.

The current M4A plan would be far more comprehensive than any private plan, and would be at a reduced cost for 90% of Americans. Not to mention that a single payer system would allow individuals the opportunity of seeing any physician they want. Classifying this as “punishment” seems like a stretch.

 

[MG1968]

Maybe Bernie can take a stab at explaining how a communist politician dedicated to serving the people can amass a fortune while in office at under $200K/year.

His wife robbed the university of Vermont.

 

[hog88]

I understand your logic, but I don’t see a reality in which the government would take a political position under a democratic system to voluntarily underpay physicians to the point that this doomsday scenario starts rolling in. It hasn’t happened in Canada, Japan, England and so on. So why base an argument off libertarian hypotheticals when reality has shown otherwise?

None of the countries you mentioned have anywhere near the accessibility to specialists, advanced diagnostic equipment/testing, or the choice of providers. We cannot continue that level of service and convenience under single payer let alone pay providers top dollar.

You mentioned earlier how much physicians make in underserved communities taking mainly medicare. I asked earlier in this thread how much a medical degree costs when all said and done and after some research it looks like it takes around $200k or better to be a doctor. IMO spending $200k+ for $100K to $180k per year isn’t a great ROI.

 

[hog88]

The current M4A plan would be far more comprehensive than any private plan, and would be at a reduced cost for 90% of Americans. Not to mention that a single payer system would allow individuals the opportunity of seeing any physician they want. Classifying this as “punishment” seems like a stretch.

To reduce costs for 90% of Americans the .gov would have no choice but to be draconian in cutting costs. In reality most Americans will end up paying significantly more in taxes than they will save on medical insurance and costs.