2016 Election

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#4,876
#4,876
bnhunt said:
ANY President whose party also controls Congress tries to push their agenda as much as possible. It's not unique to Obama. You may not like or agree w/ Obamacare, but to pretend that a President pushing through legislation when his/her party also controls Congress is somehow something new is just ignoring history.
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Yet, there is something to be said about open and honest debate over any subject going through Congress. Can you honestly say for a fact that happened with the ACA?

Don't try to assemble the strawman by saying everyone does it. That one was far worse than anything I've seen in my lifetime. And the matters in which it passed were completely partisan in nature to include bribing some through State specific incentives to sway their vote.
 
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#4,877
#4,877
Grand Vol said:
Yet, there is something to be said about open and honest debate over any subject going through Congress. Can you honestly say for a fact that happened with the ACA?

Don't try to assemble the strawman by saying everyone does it. That one was far worse than anything I've seen in my lifetime. And the matters in which it passed were completely partisan in nature to include bribing some through State specific incentives to sway their vote.
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Bush Administration 'Midnight Regulations' Impacting Food - CBS News

Your boy Bush was also key in pushing through the patriot act, which a lot of people, including myself, believe is the largest fundamental infringement of constitutional rights in the history of the United States.
 
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#4,878
#4,878
Grand Vol said:
I'll agree that was an effect of the first two years of the Administration pushing for their agenda and shoving through legislation without getting any input from the other side.

You look at the way the ACA was pushed and how the GOP was treated like they weren't even there with regards to debate on the law. And try to tell me you thought that was anywhere near correct.
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I agree there is guilt all around, and I'm not looking to excuse any of it. Petulant children, all of them.
 
#4,879
#4,879
bnhunt said:
Republican controlled Congress had nothing to do w/ that, right? All Obama's fault.
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I have no interest in defending Congress, Republican or Democrat, but in this case I believe it starts at the top. And history will show that Obama's reign has been one of the most divisive in terms of partisanship, race, and class, and that's evident throughout the country.

However, I do find it interesting that you're willing to blame the Republican Congress but apparently have no issues with Reid or Pelosi. Again, creating a culture where both sides are willing to work together starts at the top and Obama has done nothing to help create that culture. If you think otherwise, feel free to provide examples where he has done so.
 
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#4,880
#4,880
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I have no interest in defending Congress, Republican or Democrat, but in this case I believe it starts at the top. And history will show that Obama's reign has been one of the most divisive in terms of partisanship, race, and class, and that's evident throughout the country.

However, I do find it interesting that you're willing to blame the Republican Congress but apparently have no issues with Reid or Pelosi. Again, creating a culture where both sides are willing to work together starts at the top and Obama has done nothing to help create that culture. If you think otherwise, feel free to provide examples where he has done so.
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Ask and you shall receive: 5 Ways Obama Tries to Work With Republicans and is Rejected - Mic
 
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#4,881
#4,881
bnhunt said:
Bush Administration 'Midnight Regulations' Impacting Food - CBS News

Your boy Bush was also key in pushing through the patriot act, which a lot of people, including myself, believe is the largest fundamental infringement of constitutional rights in the history of the United States.
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You really want to get into the voting record of Congress in regards to the Patriot Act? Well sir, here you go...

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml

357-66 and the ayes have it. But the Senate!

U.S. Senate: Roll Call Vote

98-1. Holy bipartisanship Batman! That's what we call an overwhelming majority!

For a supposed lawyer, you're not making a good argument. You should stop while you're ahead.
 
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#4,887
#4,887
bnhunt said:
Ask and you shall receive: 5 Ways Obama Tries to Work With Republicans and is Rejected - Mic
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I'm not quite sure what I "received". Did you even bother to read what you linked, or did you just do a quick Google search and post the first link that popped up? And btw... it appears the original title of this "non-partisan" article was 5 Ways Republicans Prevent Anything From Getting Done.

1. Obama adds/keeps Chuck Hagel and Robert Gates on his cabinet. This is example one, and both of these individuals have been quoted as saying one of their biggest issues with Obama was his micro management, and that he would not take their advice.

2. Obama holds a beer summit with pro-choice and pro-lifers... and accomplishes nothing.

3. Obama holds another beer summit with Republicans to discuss healthcare... and accomplishes nothing.

4. Obama "compromises" on his previously-stated goal of not prolonging the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy by agreeing to a budget deal, and in doing so, extends unemployment benefits... because the economy is still tanking.

5. Obama has to reconsider taxable levels because the economy is still tanking.

So in other words, you really couldn't think of anything Obama has done to create a culture of bipartisanship. That culture is created when you actually work together and not just "invite someone to a meeting".
 
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#4,893
#4,893
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I'm not quite sure what I "received". Did you even bother to read what you linked, or did you just do a quick Google search and post the first link that popped up? And btw... it appears the original title of this "non-partisan" article was 5 Ways Republicans Prevent Anything From Getting Done.

1. Obama adds/keeps Chuck Hagel and Robert Gates on his cabinet. This is example one, and both of these individuals have been quoted as saying one of their biggest issues with Obama was his micro management, and that he would not take their advice.

2. Obama holds a beer summit with pro-choice and pro-lifers... and accomplishes nothing.

3. Obama holds another beer summit with Republicans to discuss healthcare... and accomplishes nothing.

4. Obama "compromises" on his previously-stated goal of not prolonging the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy by agreeing to a budget deal, and in doing so, extends unemployment benefits... because the economy is still tanking.

5. Obama has to reconsider taxable levels because the economy is still tanking.

So in other words, you really couldn't think of anything Obama has done to create a culture of bipartisanship. That culture is created when you actually work together and not just "invite someone to a meeting".
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Not all of the blame goes to Obama. The partisanship is coming from both sides. Being willing to work with Obama is something many republicans have called their colleagues out on. They've also made statements about being elected to ensure he couldn't pass any legislation.

Also 4 and 5 on your list were actual examples of him working with republicans to get something accomplished
 
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#4,895
#4,895
n_huffhines said:
So more laws are going to be passed? That's not good, IMO.
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see above - welfare reform was a good law that passed.

Tax reform was a good law that passed.

You can't have any of the changes you want in government policies/regulations unless more laws are passed.
 
#4,896
#4,896
volinbham said:
see above - welfare reform was a good law that passed.

Tax reform was a good law that passed.

You can't have any of the changes you want in government policies/regulations unless more laws are passed.
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Cool, but on the net he will grow it like crazy. He thinks government is the answer.
 
#4,897
#4,897
Vol8188 said:
Not all of the blame goes to Obama. The partisanship is coming from both sides. Being willingly to work with Obama is something many republicans have called their colleagues out on. They've also made statements about being elected to ensure he couldn't pass any legislation.

Also 4 and 5 on your list were actual examples of him working with republicans to get something accomplished
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Definitely partisanship on both sides but even Dems in Congress note that Obama made very little effort to work with Congress at all. He simply didn't engage much directly preferring instead to make public statements.

Bottomline, his lack of experience at running an organization showed clearly. He acted is if all he needed to do was say something and everyone would fall in line to make it happen.
 
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#4,899
#4,899
Trump vs Rubio, Christie or Bush:

Trump will be less likely to have a neocon foreign policy and more likely to use the government to enforce immigration. I'll take that trade-off.
 
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#4,900
#4,900
volinbham said:
Which viable candidate on either side won't grow the government?
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All of them will, which means none of them deserve your vote.

I don't see what Trump has done to show that he deserves your vote (knowing you and your politics) moreso than the others.

It is possible that he is the best viable candidate. But it's just as likely that he is the worst possible candidate, ever. He's talking about internment for ****'s sake, setting white people back 70 years.

I was thinking I might vote for the lesser of 2 evils over Trump or Sanders, but now that I have put some thought into it, I can't justify a vote for HRC and Sanders probably wouldn't be able to get much done. His policies are the worst, but in action he probably can't get them through. Trump can.
 
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