2016 Election Thread Part Deux

#9,627
#9,627
Weezer said:
Hillary has violated national security putting classified intel at risk, and hindered prosecution both through lies, and through destruction of evidence. What's more, she has supported people lying on her behalf. Rumors suggest she has done far worse, but those are just rumors. What is known is she has been tied to scandal after scandal. She's admitted to impropriety. She is in no way fit to be POTUS.
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What you say is true. In most years this would be sufficient enough reason not to vote for her. However, in this context, your reasoning seems to assume that Donald Trump is sane.
 
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#9,628
#9,628
Rudy Giuliani has gone full insane. He not only looks like a late nineteenth-century schoolmarm now, but he now acts like one high on crack.

It's hard to believe there was a time this man could have been president.
 
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#9,629
#9,629
volprof said:
I don't know how closely you follow his posts, but 1972 has always been a Trumper. It just took him a little while longer to realize it than most others.
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Unless you have/can quote posts that contradict his claim of not supporting Trump in the primary, your argument doesn't follow.
 
#9,630
#9,630
PKT_VOL said:
Unless you have/can quote posts that contradict his claim of not supporting Trump in the primary, your argument doesn't follow.
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He didn't vote for Trump in the primary, but that wasn't what I was saying. He's always been a Trumper, in fact; he just needed longer to realize it than most others. With Trump, he finally found a nice home for his white rage, his sense that Democrats and liberals have rigged everything, his bigotry, his notion that we don't "win" anymore, etc.

It was always a perfect fit. Just took a little while to develop, but the rest of us saw it coming from a mile away.
 
#9,631
#9,631
volprof said:
He didn't vote for Trump in the primary, but that wasn't what I was saying. He's always been a Trumper, in fact; he just needed longer to realize it than most others. With Trump, he finally found a nice home for his white rage, his sense that Democrats and liberals have rigged everything, his bigotry, his notion that we don't "win" anymore, etc.

It was always a perfect fit. Just took a little while to develop, but the rest of us saw it coming from a mile away.
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GOP members can be skeptical of Democrats, their own leaders, and call out the general ****ness of some of the things in this country without being a Trumper. I do the same as a Libertarian and hate Trump.
 
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#9,632
#9,632
PKT_VOL said:
GOP members can be skeptical of Democrats, their own leaders, and call out the general ****ness of some of the things in this country without being a Trumper. I do the same as a Libertarian and hate Trump.
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This is a very generous way to describe the poster in question's views. But I admit that most of the time he does a good job of coming across as just another well-intentioned, rational guy, so I understand your representation here.
 
#9,633
#9,633
volprof said:
What you say is true. In most years this would be sufficient enough reason not to vote for her. However, in this context, your reasoning seems to assume that Donald Trump is sane.
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I don't assume Trump to be sane. In that same regard, I don't assume Hillary to be sane either.
 
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#9,634
#9,634
PKT_VOL said:
I can't make heads or tails out of the bold.
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"Libertarians are so weird they basically aren't in the conversation Maybe if they were the only party at the beginning, but they are just too far separated from the reality of the time to be in play - and that doesn't mean I completely disagree with a lot of the concepts."

I missed the period at the end of the first sentence. But what I was trying to get across is that the Libertarian concept is simply too foreign for most of the electorate. If the party was an established and known brand like Rep and Dem, it might have a chance.

If the concept was more a current part of the terminology like liberal and conservative, it might have a chance. But even at that, look at the similarity in the start of the name - libertarian vs liberal - that's a problem in itself because people are simply too lazy to learn and Libertarians have no platform to educate.

"Independent" at least says something - "I'm not one of them." Libertarian is and probably will never be more than a buzzword - dust in the wind. One final element that's never needed to be played - this is a two party system, and Rep and Dem will fight together tooth and nail if necessary to keep it that way - you won't beat the system without destroying it - and a party that is more dedicated to playing down organized bullying isn't doing to defeat it.
 
#9,635
#9,635
volprof said:
This is a very generous way to describe the poster in question's views. But I admit that most of the time he does a good job of coming across as just another well-intentioned, rational guy, so I understand your representation here.
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Possibly. But the flip side of the coin is for you to understand the gravity of what you say sometimes.
 
#9,636
#9,636
AM64 said:
"Libertarians are so weird they basically aren't in the conversation Maybe if they were the only party at the beginning, but they are just too far separated from the reality of the time to be in play - and that doesn't mean I completely disagree with a lot of the concepts."

I missed the period at the end of the first sentence. But what I was trying to get across is that the Libertarian concept is simply too foreign for most of the electorate. If the party was an established and known brand like Rep and Dem, it might have a chance.

If the concept was more a current part of the terminology like liberal and conservative, it might have a chance. But even at that, look at the similarity in the start of the name - libertarian vs liberal - that's a problem in itself because people are simply too lazy to learn and Libertarians have no platform to educate.

"Independent" at least says something - "I'm not one of them." Libertarian is and probably will never be more than a buzzword - dust in the wind. One final element that's never needed to be played - this is a two party system, and Rep and Dem will fight together tooth and nail if necessary to keep it that way - you won't beat the system without destroying it - and a party that is more dedicated to playing down organized bullying isn't doing to defeat it.
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Gotcha. I tend to agree on most of your points.

The upside for the Libertarian Party is that most of the electorate is some shade of Libertarian.

The downside is getting them to realize it and convincing them to walk away from one of the two parties they half-heartedly support out of fear of the other one. It's going to take some event for a total paradigm shift.
 
#9,638
#9,638
PKT_VOL said:
Gotcha. I tend to agree on most of your points.

The upside for the Libertarian Party is that most of the electorate is some shade of Libertarian.

The downside is getting them to realize it and convincing them to walk away from one of the two parties they half-heartedly support out of fear of the other one. It's going to take some event for a total paradigm shift.
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I don't see how that shift is going to occur. Colleges are hotbeds for liberal inspiration. Democrats have the handout programs to latch onto the other end of the liberal spectrum. Republicans aren't even making a real attempt at anti-liberalism to keep their party viable. If that weren't enough the press are not in any way objective when it comes to politics.

I just don't see where the Libertarian party is going to begin an educational program, and certainly the media aren't going to help them into the game. We saw that with the Aleppo moment; as sure a kill as a sniper ever made. The electorate won't hear a message until it's ready to hear the message, and the electorate is progressively becoming less inclined to hear and understand anything objective. When politics starts making the talk show circles for laughs and attention, it's pretty much an indicator of a country circling the drain - and mostly sucked down the drain intellectually.
 
#9,640
#9,640
volbeast33 said:
I'm college educated and don't see how any educated person could vote for Hillary Clinton. Can you explain this to me?
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Yeah, I have a problem with that one, too. Perhaps you and I simply managed to escape and evade the college liberal klan. As an engineer, the agenda wasn't chock full of the liberal social study death traps, and I chose electives carefully even though I don't think I really understood the depth of the problem. The fact is that there's only so much liberalism that can be taught in math, real science, and engineering classes.

Otherwise, it appears that most liberal arts programs graduate liberal zombies who will vote for anything labeled Democrat.
 
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#9,643
#9,643
PKT_VOL said:
Unless you have/can quote posts that contradict his claim of not supporting Trump in the primary, your argument doesn't follow.
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Actually, Gramps tried his best to talk me out of supporting Cruz, and we had some back and forth banter about Cruz. I didn't like Cruz personally, but thought that his beliefs were closest to mine.

After Trump became the nominee, I came on board, in spite of misgivings about him. The thing that I really like about Trump is that the Republicans hate him, the Democrats hate him, the Media hate him, the Pope hates him, Wall Street hates him, Liberal twerps hate him, etc. That alone makes me think that the Beltway needs to be broken up.
 
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#9,644
#9,644
1972 Grad said:
Actually, Gramps tried his best to talk me out of supporting Cruz, and we had some back and forth banter about Cruz. I didn't like Cruz personally, but thought that his beliefs were closest to mine.

After Trump became the nominee, I came on board, in spite of misgivings about him. The thing that I really like about Trump is that the Republicans hate him, the Democrats hate him, the Media hate him, the Pope hates him, Wall Street hates him, Liberal twerps hate him, etc. That alone makes me think that the Beltway needs to be broken up.
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When everybody in the "know" politically hates somebody, what's not to like?
 
#9,645
#9,645
1972 Grad said:
Actually, Gramps tried his best to talk me out of supporting Cruz, and we had some back and forth banter about Cruz. I didn't like Cruz personally, but thought that his beliefs were closest to mine.

After Trump became the nominee, I came on board, in spite of misgivings about him. The thing that I really like about Trump is that the Republicans hate him, the Democrats hate him, the Media hate him, the Pope hates him, Wall Street hates him, Liberal twerps hate him, etc. That alone makes me think that the Beltway needs to be broken up.
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As I said, there was no doubt the appeal of Trump's rage virus was always there for you. It was an all-too-perfect marriage, and I wonder how it took you so long to figure it out yourself. Most of us knew you were a Trumper before even you did evidently.
 
#9,647
#9,647
Weezer said:
I don't assume Trump to be sane. In that same regard, I don't assume Hillary to be sane either.
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Yeah, I'm going to call BS on that. Hillary may be evil. She may be in poor physical health. These are all legitimate areas in which she has demonstrated some concern in the past. But her sanity is not one of them.
 
#9,649
#9,649
volprof said:
Yeah, I'm going to call BS on that. Hillary may be evil. She may be in poor physical health. These are all legitimate areas in which she has demonstrated some concern in the past. But her sanity is not one of them.
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I question the sanity of anyone who lives for greed and power at all costs.
 
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