2016 Election Thread Part Deux

On Megyn Kelly, they just broke down the remaining delegates and Trump came up 46 short with their predictions going into the convention.

This could get interesting.


Will likely come down to New Mexico. This may be a matter of a few delegates on round 1.

Did you see the Trump guy saying that if they think the convention is going to dump him they are going to give out the names and hotel room numbers of the traitorous delegates? I don't thinks it's to send them hookers or chocolates.
 
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Will likely come down to New Mexico. This may be a matter of a few delegates on round 1.

Did you see the Trump guy saying that if they think the convention is going to dump him they are going to give out the names and hotel room numbers of the traitorous delegates? I don't thinks it's to send them hookers or chocolates.

I don't think so. I think if Trump goes in less than a hundred short, he wheels and deals for either Kasich's or Rubio's delegates. IIRC (I could be wrong as this has gone several different ways) either can pledge their delegates to him on the first day to avoid the drama of a brokered/contested convention.
 
Did you see the Trump guy saying that if they think the convention is going to dump him they are going to give out the names and hotel room numbers of the traitorous delegates? I don't thinks it's to send them hookers or chocolates.

I did. You only need to shoot one to make the rest back off.
 
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You said that last night. I understand Rachel Maddox gets your loins stirred, but she really ain't it.

I said that for your benefit. I thought you would like to do her. Edit: Megyn Kelly, that is. I would take her over Rachel though, and Rachel would choose her over me..
 
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The threat alone will give a few pause.

I tend to think it's a lot of bombast myself...not that it's unexpected from the Trump campaign. But no matter what, I'd expect security to be assigned to the places they are staying. It's the prudent thing to do from the GOP.
 
So you're not sure what you're talking about.

Do you believe in only end result equality where everyone has the same no matter what or equal work/effort equal outcome?

So you had one guess and you blew it.

Capitalism, while a beneficial anti-poverty measure (probably the best we've ever seen), also leads to the most radical inequality in any given society that practices it. Not everyone can be a billionaire, and, what's more, you would learn from Gladwell's "Outliers" that, contrary to popular fantasies about anyone and everyone being able to make a fortune, there is really only a small historical window for a very small amount of already relatively privileged people to make a huge amount of money. And of course, the rest of the population, who is wondering why they can't have it all, is left in envy and hate. The only way to appease those masses and give them some semblance of equality is by creating more fair social programs that keep the masses from rioting and communist revolt.

Capitalists, ones who actually consider the long-term health and longevity of this system, should approve of socialist measures. It's just smart policy.

I know that, in this country, we associate all things socialist with communism and stupidity, but one of the first proponents of "socialism" in practice (and not just abstract academic theory) and of universal healthcare was Bismarck's Prussia. And Bismarck's Prussia was no one's idea of a leftist utopia. Bismarck, however, was a smart pragmatist, a good, strong leader, who realized that reality necessitates give-and-take and other concessions. Bismarck left the utopianist bull**** to the idealists and the absolutists.
 
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Democratic math...Clinton won 1 county in Wisconsin...delegate count Sanders 48 Clinton 38
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Here.. It is long but it details what socialism is and how it came to be along with communism(state capitalism). If you really want to know about it I suggest you watch. Spoiler.. Marx and socialism isn't about the government running things.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysZC0JOYYWw[/youtube]

lol

Ignore the link I provided in response to your comment from earlier and how it's almost exactly what the Communist Manifesto laid out and toss out a link that you know I won't watch.
 
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lol

Ignore the link I provided in response to your comment from earlier and how it's almost exactly what the Communist Manifesto laid out and toss out a link that you know I won't watch.

You probably shouldn't talk about it then if you are going to be ignorant on the subject.
 
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You probably shouldn't talk about it then if you are going to be ignorant on the subject.

Oh, I'm not ignorant on it. I just don't support it.

Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm some mouth breather that doesn't know the "difference" in socialism and communism.
 
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You probably shouldn't talk about it then if you are going to be ignorant on the subject.

I'll just put this succinctly and in basic terms.

Your post from earlier:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12527197&postcount=1632

Is almost straight from the Communist Manifesto, to which I provided a link to:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12527255&postcount=1639

Yet, you try to say your post was "socialism" and attempted, poorly I might add, to dodge the proof I posted that what you were espousing was indeed, communism in it's original form.

So perhaps you should get educated on your chosen system of government before trying to correct others.
 
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I'll just put this succinctly and in basic terms.

Your post from earlier:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12527197&postcount=1632

Is almost straight from the Communist Manifesto, to which I provided a link to:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12527255&postcount=1639

Yet, you try to say your post was "socialism" and attempted, poorly I might add, to dodge the proof I posted that what you were espousing was indeed, communism in it's original form.

So perhaps you should get educated on your chosen system of government before trying to correct others.

Yes I have no problem with Marx. The problem is what people see socialism and communism as. The problem is people think socialism as government controlled and that's what Stalin called it but that's not what it is. Marx never talked about the state controlling everything. Communism is just state ran capitalism instead of private ran capitalism. Socialism is worker ran. so.. communism-state ran.. capitalist-private ran.. socialism-worker ran. To me.. the worker having the say in how they work is the best.
 
I gave him the link where his words come from. I expect a picture in return.

Be ready for one of those happy, flowery, staged Mao things. He probably doesn't know about Soviet tanks rolling through Hungary, or the good life with Uncle Joe, or Castro's forays into Africa and a few other places to "liberate" the people. Pol Pot was really just a misunderstood good guy who wanted to get people out of the crowded, dingy cities into the country and fresh air. Of course, in the end for socialists it's like believers in Keynesian economics - the plan would work if it were ever applied properly, uh huh.

Anybody know if they still teach that stuff, or has revisionism cleaned the slate for the next round of socialism suckers?
 
Be ready for one of those happy, flowery, staged Mao things. He probably doesn't know about Soviet tanks rolling through Hungary, or the good life with Uncle Joe, or Castro's forays into Africa and a few other places to "liberate" the people. Pol Pot was really just a misunderstood good guy who wanted to get people out of the crowded, dingy cities into the country and fresh air. Of course, in the end for socialists it's like believers in Keynesian economics - the plan would work if it were ever applied properly, uh huh.

Anybody know if they still teach that stuff, or has revisionism cleaned the slate for the next round of socialism suckers?

Not one thing you just mentioned has anything to do with socialism.
 
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Off the socialism thing for a minute... All hell is going to break lose if Trump gets that close and they don't give it to him.

The rules state that if Trump is short of the delegates needs it goes to a contested Convention. The delegates must vote for their pledged candidate for the first 2 ballots of voting. But after that they are basically released and the game begins. Trump is already losing delegates because his minions have been threating them. If it goes to contested convention Trump has no chance.
 
Not one thing you just mentioned has anything to do with socialism.

Actually they do because that's how it always works. Communes or collectives or whatever term you may wish to use always work with organizing committees - which is invariable the state at the top level. It in turn always has a leader - a Stalin or a Mao or a Castro or a Pol Pot or a Ho Chi Minh. Some are more benevolent than others, and some more powerful - virtual dictators aren't uncommon.

All organizations have a leader. Dynamic, self sustaining organizations in general have leaders who understand that there is a symbiotic relationship with the people who make up the organization. You want something from the workers, then you have to give them a piece of the pie. Henry Ford understood that if people made a decent living, they could buy his cars, and his business would be self sustaining. Socialism doesn't have that dynamic - more get along at survival level in practice. Rule by committee isn't efficient; and, in fact, there are far more natural followers (workers) than natural leaders.

Greed and avarice don't work well in any system because when there is no real reward for production then there is no incentive to produce once the basic needs (food and shelter) are met. If the state, commune, collective provide those and there is no hope of having things like a real house, cars, appliances other than junk from another collective then... No hope for a better life pretty much always equals little real work effort in any system. Corporations that ship jobs overseas for the low cost labor cannot be self-sustaining in the long run because eventually there is no one to buy their goods. If you want to consider a view such as Henry Ford's a compromise between socialism and capitalism - fine; but it is really just a matter of common sense, and there's not a lot of that going around these days.
 
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The rules state that if Trump is short of the delegates needs it goes to a contested Convention. The delegates must vote for their pledged candidate for the first 2 ballots of voting. But after that they are basically released and the game begins. Trump is already losing delegates because his minions have been threating them. If it goes to contested convention Trump has no chance.

I'm sure their ultimate goal would be to give it to Kasich..but he doesn't satisfy the 8 state rule..he destroys Clinton and Sanders in the latest polls

In head-to-head general election matchups:  Kasich buries Clinton 51 – 35 percent;  Kasich tops Sanders 46 – 40 percent;  Clinton gets 45 percent to Trump’s 42 percent;  Clinton ties Cruz 43 – 43 percent;  Sanders tops Trump 48 – 40 percent;  Sanders beats Cruz 46 – 38 percent.
 
I don't think so. I think if Trump goes in less than a hundred short, he wheels and deals for either Kasich's or Rubio's delegates. IIRC (I could be wrong as this has gone several different ways) either can pledge their delegates to him on the first day to avoid the drama of a brokered/contested convention.

Rubio has locked his delegates down. Only person that could get them would be Cruz.
 
I'm sure their ultimate goal would be to give it to Kasich..but he doesn't satisfy the 8 state rule..he destroys Clinton and Sanders in the latest polls

In head-to-head general election matchups:  Kasich buries Clinton 51 – 35 percent;  Kasich tops Sanders 46 – 40 percent;  Clinton gets 45 percent to Trump’s 42 percent;  Clinton ties Cruz 43 – 43 percent;  Sanders tops Trump 48 – 40 percent;  Sanders beats Cruz 46 – 38 percent.

The 8 state rule has to be approved every convention. So if delegates don't want to approve it this year they don't have too.
 
I'm sure their ultimate goal would be to give it to Kasich..but he doesn't satisfy the 8 state rule..he destroys Clinton and Sanders in the latest polls

In head-to-head general election matchups:  Kasich buries Clinton 51 – 35 percent;  Kasich tops Sanders 46 – 40 percent;  Clinton gets 45 percent to Trump’s 42 percent;  Clinton ties Cruz 43 – 43 percent;  Sanders tops Trump 48 – 40 percent;  Sanders beats Cruz 46 – 38 percent.

When I first heard Kasich, I was favorably impressed. The more I see the less impressed I am; furthermore, he is "establishment". If the GOP screws over whoever tops the primaries to hand it to Kasich, that's the third strike strike. I still might consider Kasich a more reasonable alternative than some; but if the GOP was willing to cheat to that extent, I'd rather watch it implode. This is about the GOP going to AA and getting straightened out or folding the tents and letting some new and deserving party take over. Either way, the GOP has no future as it exists.
 
Actually they do because that's how it always works. Communes or collectives or whatever term you may wish to use always work with organizing committees - which is invariable the state at the top level. It in turn always has a leader - a Stalin or a Mao or a Castro or a Pol Pot or a Ho Chi Minh. Some are more benevolent than others, and some more powerful - virtual dictators aren't uncommon.

All organizations have a leader. Dynamic, self sustaining organizations in general have leaders who understand that there is a symbiotic relationship with the people who make up the organization. You want something from the workers, then you have to give them a piece of the pie. Henry Ford understood that if people made a decent living, they could buy his cars, and his business would be self sustaining. Socialism doesn't have that dynamic - more get along at survival level in practice. Rule by committee isn't efficient; and, in fact, there are far more natural followers (workers) than natural leaders.

Greed and avarice don't work well in any system because when there is no real reward for production then there is no incentive to produce once the basic needs (food and shelter) are met. If the state, commune, collective provide those and there is no hope of having things like a real house, cars, appliances other than junk from another collective then... No hope for a better life pretty much always equals little real work effort in any system. Corporations that ship jobs overseas for the low cost labor cannot be self-sustaining in the long run because eventually there is no one to buy their goods. If you want to consider a view such as Henry Ford's a compromise between socialism and capitalism - fine; but it is really just a matter of common sense, and there's not a lot of that going around these days.

In Socialism the more you work the more you get unlike Capitalism where the more you work the more the boss gets. That's what Marx talks about. The state doesn't have a role.. one of the most fundamental goals in socialism is the abolition of the state. All those leaders you mention are not socialist. I'm not aware of any true socialist country ever existing and probably never will.. be too many people controlling their own lives.
 
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