2015 NBA Playoff Thread

[GahLee]

I honestly hardly noticed how much they were fouling Jordan. I gave my Mom a call during the first half, and I fastforward FTs, so I didn't even realize he shot 24 until I saw the halftime show. I can't imagine watching that in real time.

It sucked. I think taking it completely out of the game wouldn't be wise. But make it so that you can only do it so many times a game or cap it per quarter. Something. It's a tactic and players shouldn't be given a free pass for being inept at shooting FT's but nobody wants to watch a guy getting intentionally fouled over and over again.

 

[apevol]

i thought this narrative was put to rest?

It doesn't go away because of a great shot. I don't really even buy into the 'not clutch' stuff. I think lebron's scoring is just easier to contain than MJ's was. Doesn't mean he isn't doing other things to win.

 

[n_huffhines]

It doesn't go away because of a great shot. I don't really even buy into the 'not clutch' stuff. I think lebron's scoring is just easier to contain than MJ's was. Doesn't mean he isn't doing other things to win.

I don't think anybody would argue that.

The clutch, not clutch stuff is pretty lame. If we looked at either one of their career 4th quarter stats in close games, they would probably average out to be similar to their career averages (so pretty beastly numbers).

We want to define players by moments, but that's not very useful. It makes for good storytelling.

 

[GahLee]

I don't think anybody would argue that.

The clutch, not clutch stuff is pretty lame. If we looked at either one of their career 4th quarter stats in close games, they would probably average out to be similar to their career averages (so pretty beastly numbers).

We want to define players by moments, but that's not very useful. It makes for good storytelling.

Actually James' numbers increase to ungodly in crunch time.

 

[GahLee]

It doesn't go away because of a great shot. I don't really even buy into the 'not clutch' stuff. I think lebron's scoring is just easier to contain than MJ's was. Doesn't mean he isn't doing other things to win.

I thought it was put to rest well before that shot. Statistically it's asinine to say he's not a clutch player.

He's had some baffling games/moments. Game 5 against Boston in 2010. Against Dallas in the Finals. But he's also had some of the greatest playoff performances ever.

 

[n_huffhines]

Actually James' numbers increase to ungodly in crunch time.

Link?

 

[VolsButch98]

Link?

"2014-15 Clutch Stats: 8-4 record, 17-of-33 shooting (51.5 percent), 4-of-10 three-point shooting (40 percent), 62 points, 8 assists, +41, 1.19 points per clutch possession."

And this has been his worst statistical season shooting the ball in awhile. Couldn't find playoff stats, but I've seen before that those are even more ridiculous than the above mentioned stats.

 

[BadJerry20]

Just 3?! With the way people talk you would have thought Jordan hit 50 of these things.

LeBron James is now measurably as clutch as Michael Jordan - SBNation.com

To be fair the Bulls didn't really have much resistance come playoff time. It's kind of like the QB that doesn't have many comebacks because he didn't need to comeback. I do hate that only last second shots are considered clutch by most people. Down 3 with 15 seconds left to tie it is just as clutch, same for a defensive stop, a pass or a rebound. But we need something to base "clutch" on and that's the easiest way to measure it.

 

[GahLee]

Link?

I can't find the site anymore but it detailed his stats in the *clutch and applied it to a per 36.

*clutch was defined as last 5 minutes a of a games with the score within 5 points, included playoffs.

His shooting was basically the same as far as percentage goes, he just shot more but his rebounds and assists went trough the roof.

Wish I could find it. I'll dig some more.

 

[n_huffhines]

"2014-15 Clutch Stats: 8-4 record, 17-of-33 shooting (51.5 percent), 4-of-10 three-point shooting (40 percent), 62 points, 8 assists, +41, 1.19 points per clutch possession."

And this has been his worst statistical season shooting the ball in awhile. Couldn't find playoff stats, but I've seen before that those are even more ridiculous than the above mentioned stats.

Right, but I'd like to see career numbers. I'm sure if you look at groups of data he has some phenomenal numbers that can be cherry picked. But I'm saying I think those would most likely average out and we're left with his normal, really good numbers.

 

[n_huffhines]

I can't find the site anymore but it detailed his stats in the *clutch and applied it to a per 36.

*clutch was defined as last 5 minutes a of a games with the score within 5 points, included playoffs.

His shooting was basically the same as far as percentage goes, he just shot more but his rebounds and assists went trough the roof.

Wish I could find it. I'll dig some more.

That's cool. I'd like to find that.

 

[n_huffhines]

To be fair the Bulls didn't really have much resistance come playoff time. It's kind of like the QB that doesn't have many comebacks because he didn't need to comeback. I do hate that only last second shots are considered clutch by most people. Down 3 with 15 seconds left to tie it is just as clutch, same for a defensive stop, a pass or a rebound. But we need something to base "clutch" on and that's the easiest way to measure it.

Fair point, but is there a way to check this? Lebron has played in 13 fewer playoff games, but we're talking nearly 200 games. I would guess Jordan played in fewer close games, but have no idea if that means 10 games or 25.

 

[apevol]

Fair point, but is there a way to check this? Lebron has played in 13 fewer playoff games, but we're talking nearly 200 games. I would guess Jordan played in fewer close games, but have no idea if that means 10 games or 25.

For some reason I was assuming LBJ had played in more playoff games already. MJ had a lot of early exits

 

[BadJerry20]

Fair point, but is there a way to check this? Lebron has played in 13 fewer playoff games, but we're talking nearly 200 games. I would guess Jordan played in fewer close games, but have no idea if that means 10 games or 25.

Idk honestly, aside from watching game footage of every playoff game they've played, I doubt it. That wasn't an argument against LBJ BTW, I think he's clutch more because he generally makes the right play late, which isn't always to take the shot. For some reason people view that as less clutch.

 

[firestorm]

I'm a man that knows where the mancaves are.

Warriors looking like a team that coukd lose to the grizzlies
It'll be to damn funny if the hawks lose to the wizards without wall.

 

[apevol]

Idk honestly, aside from watching game footage of every playoff game they've played, I doubt it. That wasn't an argument against LBJ BTW, I think he's clutch more because he generally makes the right play late, which isn't always to take the shot. For some reason people view that as less clutch.

That's because today's youth is obssessed with whether a player is an alpha male or not.

 

[BadJerry20]

That's cool. I'd like to find that.

That would be cool to see. An overall game performance late in close games, not just shooting last second shots. It might be my lying eyes, but I feel like Reggie made a ton of down 3 with 20-50 seconds left shots to tie it up. Or up 1 same situation daggers. To me that's clutch too.

 

[BadJerry20]

That's because today's youth is obssessed with whether a player is an alpha male or not.

True, but MJ gets a lot of love for the pass to Kerr, while LBJ gets heat for those plays. I think MJ is the GOAT hands down, but LBJ gets a lot of hate for silly stuff.

 

[BadJerry20]

I'm a man that knows where the mancaves are.

Warriors looking like a team that coukd lose to the grizzlies
It'll be to damn funny if the hawks lose to the wizards without wall.

You shouldn't refer to Ben's backside as "The Man cave" no matter how spacious it is.

 

[apevol]

You shouldn't refer to Ben's backside as "The Man cave" no matter how spacious it is.

Yeah. Everyone knows its called "The Hallway"

 

[n_huffhines]

That would be cool to see. An overall game performance late in close games, not just shooting last second shots. It might be my lying eyes, but I feel like Reggie made a ton of down 3 with 20-50 seconds left shots to tie it up. Or up 1 same situation daggers. To me that's clutch too.

It would be fairly easy to do, if you had access to to game data. You could scrub for stats in 4th quarters where the game was within 5 points, or something.

The problem is nobody gives me the data :cray:

 

[GahLee]

Sigh. Can't believe I can't find that site. If I recall, James' stats in that scenario (last 5 minutes, score within 5) his per 36 numbers were something like 36 ppg, 15 rpg, 11 apg.

Don't qoute me on that, I'm still going to keep looking but I think it's something ridiculous like that.

 

[YankeeVol]

Sure, LeBron was money yesterday, but the NBA star with the highest FG% in clutch time (the last 5 min. of the 4th or OT when the score is within 5 points) this postseason? That would be the Wizards' Paul Pierce, who is 4-for-4 (min. 4 FGA), trailed by James Harden (4-for-5) and C.J. McCollum.

 

[n_huffhines]

Sure, LeBron was money yesterday, but the NBA star with the highest FG% in clutch time (the last 5 min. of the 4th or OT when the score is within 5 points) this postseason? That would be the Wizards' Paul Pierce, who is 4-for-4 (min. 4 FGA), trailed by James Harden (4-for-5) and C.J. McCollum.

I think Iggy has the highest shooting % on game-winners of active players. It's something absurd like 7 for 11. You can't really appreciate until you see the other guys' data. Lebron was like 14 for 40 (and he was one of the best ones). Kobe was like 13 for 55. Inexact numbers, but it was something like that.

 

[LittleCat]

Wish we had the stat for 08-15 but in Brons first 5 years he was 17-50 on game winning shot chances (24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points).