2013 Heisman

#27
#27
eazyTD said:
I watched the entire Iron bowl and Bama/LSU game and I can tell you McCarron missed a ton of throws that a "Heisman" QB should make. It seems like 75% of his yards come off check downs and dump offs. Not criticizing him for doing that because he's got the playmakers to make him look good but I've never watched McCarron and been wowed by him like I have been by Winston or Manziel.
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I'm not saying McCarron is Heisman worthy, I'm saying FSU probably goes undefeated with him.
 
#29
#29
McCarron being up for the Heisman proves that it is in fact a total joke, over-hyped popularity contest driven by who ever the media wants in it. Please go look at the SEC player passing stats for this year. Once you are there, for the sake of this argument, compare McCarron to Mettenberger. Now I, in no way, am saying that Mettenberger should be up for the Heisman, just simply using him to show how under-whelming McCarrons stats are. There is hardly any separation between the two and actually could be argued that Mettenberger has had the better season(more yds in less att, higher QBR, only 4 less TDs) but once again not pro Mettenber, just anti-McCarron. If going by the stats its hard to argue against Manziel. Plus if you take him away from A&M I believe they drop more than 4 games.
 
#31
#31
GAVol said:
This is an award that has been won by the likes of Jason White, Gino Toretta, Eric Crouch, etc. AJ McCarron wouldn't exactly be a new phenomenon.
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We can attribute all those to the "all he does is win" crowd.

Same people who thought Alex Smith should have been given votes for NFL MVP prior to their 3 game losing skid.
 
#39
#39
zjcvols said:
If we are going to give A.J. McCarron the Heisman, I give up. What a total joke that would be. He might the most overrated QB in the last twenty years. He's basically Casey Clausen. He's a good QB, but there are 20 QB's right now that would have led Bama to a 11-1 record or better.
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Yeah keep telling yourself that. Bucky Brooks projects him as a good first round pick. Dilfer has said he is an excellent QB that will excel in the NFL. Mel Kiper Jr projects him in the first round.

Put AJ on FSU, they still go undefeated. McCarron has been one of the best QB's in the country for the last 2 years.

Manziel winning the Heisman last year and even being considered this year is the joke.
 
#41
#41
BigOrangeTrain said:
Yeah keep telling yourself that. Bucky Brooks projects him as a good first round pick. Dilfer has said he is an excellent QB that will excel in the NFL. Mel Kiper Jr projects him in the first round.

Put AJ on FSU, they still go undefeated. McCarron has been one of the best QB's in the country for the last 2 years.

Manziel winning the Heisman last year and even being considered this year is the joke.
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And by what metric has McCarron been one of the best QB's in the country?

And lol at calling McCarron one of the best in the country while dogging Manziel.
 
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#42
#42
KingNick865 said:
And by what metric has McCarron been one of the best QB's in the country?

And lol at calling McCarron one of the best in the country while dogging Manziel.
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McCarron can't run like Manziel. Manziel doesn't have the poise or leadership qualities McCarron does. AJ has led the nation in passing efficiency and doesn't run around the field just throwing up passes hoping a receiver catches it. The only reason Manziel will likely be drafted higher is because of his running ability.

What metric? AJ is at his best in the biggest games. I guess many of the NFL experts who call AJ one of the best are just nuts right? But you know more than they do :eek:lol:.
 
#43
#43
BigOrangeTrain said:
McCarron can't run like Manziel. Manziel doesn't have the poise or leadership qualities McCarron does. AJ has led the nation in passing efficiency and doesn't run around the field just throwing up passes hoping a receiver catches it. The only reason Manziel will likely be drafted higher is because of his running ability.

What metric? AJ is at his best in the biggest games. I guess many of the NFL experts who call AJ one of the best are just nuts right? But you know more than they do :eek:lol:.
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All the things you just mentioned are bull. First of all, no he doesn't lead the nation in passing efficiency; he's 8th behind Jameis Winston, Bryce Petty, Zach Mettenberger, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, and Tajh Boyd. He's outside of the top 10 in every other statistical measure; yards per game (44th), yards per attempt (15th), and completion percentage (14th).

The whole "poise and leadership" quality is also crap as well. Firstly, anyone who knows Manziel says that he's a great team leader, but that has nothing to do with the whole argument of "who's the best player in the country". Besides, if you'd actually watch A&M play, you'd know that Manziel is always having to run around and make plays because his offensive line couldn't protect him if their lives depended on it.

"At his best in big games"? Even if one were to acknowledge the presence of clutch (there's very little to no statistical evidence to support the evidence of clutch ability), is McCarron the only person on his team to posses this magic ability? Or, does everyone on his team also possess this trait as well? One would logically say that everyone on the team must possess the "clutch" ability, since the quarterback cannot produce all of -- or anything close to all of -- his team's wins. Thus, if you are going to make this argument, then you must say that guys like CJ Mosely and TJ Yeldon are also "big game performers" and thus, equally deserving of the Heisman as well if this is your main argument for McCarron.

I love a nice argument from authority fallacy that tops your post off. Just because Trent Dilfer or Mel Kiper say that does not mean that what I have said is not true. I respect their opinions, but I am perfectly able to watch enough games and videos to deduct my own opinion.
 
#44
#44
KingNick865 said:
All the things you just mentioned are bull. First of all, no he doesn't lead the nation in passing efficiency; he's 8th behind Jameis Winston, Bryce Petty, Zach Mettenberger, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, and Tajh Boyd. He's outside of the top 10 in every other statistical measure; yards per game (44th), yards per attempt (15th), and completion percentage (14th).

The whole "poise and leadership" quality is also crap as well. Firstly, anyone who knows Manziel says that he's a great team leader, but that has nothing to do with the whole argument of "who's the best player in the country". Besides, if you'd actually watch A&M play, you'd know that Manziel is always having to run around and make plays because his offensive line couldn't protect him if their lives depended on it.

"At his best in big games"? Even if one were to acknowledge the presence of clutch (there's very little to no statistical evidence to support the evidence of clutch ability), is McCarron the only person on his team to posses this magic ability? Or, does everyone on his team also possess this trait as well? One would logically say that everyone on the team must possess the "clutch" ability, since the quarterback cannot produce all of -- or anything close to all of -- his team's wins. Thus, if you are going to make this argument, then you must say that guys like CJ Mosely and TJ Yeldon are also "big game performers" and thus, equally deserving of the Heisman as well if this is your main argument for McCarron.

I love a nice argument from authority fallacy that tops your post off. Just because Trent Dilfer or Mel Kiper say that does not mean that what I have said is not true. I respect their opinions, but I am perfectly able to watch enough games and videos to deduct my own opinion.
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Nice authority fallacy reference. It would be a lot better if you actually knew what you were talking about but I digress. If you really read my post I said AJ HAS led the nation in passing efficiency as he did last year. Basically everything you have said does nothing to boost anything for Manziel.

All you do is ignore facts and base your own opinion, which is fine. But I guess because my opinion doesn't line up with yours, its wrong. Also just because you say something is true, doesn't make it true. We both have our opinions and thats cool but for future reference, you look really dumb when you cannot see past your blind hate when trying to construct an argument.
 
#45
#45
BigOrangeTrain said:
Nice authority fallacy reference. It would be a lot better if you actually knew what you were talking about but I digress. If you really read my post I said AJ HAS led the nation in passing efficiency as he did last year. Basically everything you have said does nothing to boost anything for Manziel.

All you do is ignore facts and base your own opinion, which is fine. But I guess because my opinion doesn't line up with yours, its wrong. Also just because you say something is true, doesn't make it true. We both have our opinions and thats cool but for future reference, you look really dumb when you cannot see past your blind hate when trying to construct an argument.
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I don't see where I've posted anything that resembles blind hate.

I merely challenged your assertion that AJ McCarron was one of the best QB's in the country using facts, but call it what you will. McCarron's not tops in the nation at anything and is outside the top 10 in the nation in almost every rate statistic. It means almost nothing that he's a good leader; the Heisman is an award for the best player in the country, which AJ McCarron is not. If you want to say he's a good quarterback, fine, I'll gladly admit that. But he's not the best football player in the entire country. Not even close.

I retract my statement about the argument from authority fallacy. Everything else stands.
 
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