152 - 52

#26
#26
With the "it was the right thing to do logic" that goes on around here, then MI St should have fired Dantonio last year, and Fisher should be on the FSU firing block ... even if he was just on the "must have" list here.

Anyone ever consider that negative recruiting from the Albert Means - AL probation might have been a problem for Fulmer? Remember a guy named Taj Boyd that Fulmer had committed and Kiffen didn't want; he kinda started the ball rolling at Clemson, and they've been poaching our recruits ever since.
 
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#30
#30
5 wins versus 12 losses against Florida, our biggest rival during the time when Alabama was down. Regrets? Yup, 12 of them.
 
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#31
#31
vols1221 said:
Why don't you look who he had commited when fired. Oh what could have been.
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It wouldn't have mattered, and Kiffin actually brought in higher-ranked players in a short time (it is questionable how much those rankings mattered of course). Fulmer's super-conservative nature and poor in-game management would have only taken us so far, even if we had true freshman studs starting. If you will remember, he started Mark Levine over the likes of Jamal Lewis and Travis Henry against Florida.
 
#32
#32
vols1221 said:
Game passed him by? Run the ball, and play great defense. I think this is still what everyone wants to do.

You're out of your mind if you think nobody called him! He is a Tennessee boy. Spent his entire life here. His heart wouldn't let him go anywhere else!
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Who else offered Fulmer a head coaching job?
 
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#35
#35
vols1221 said:
Game passed him by? Run the ball, and play great defense. I think this is still what everyone wants to do.

You're out of your mind if you think nobody called him! He is a Tennessee boy. Spent his entire life here. His heart wouldn't let him go anywhere else!
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Funny how people say the game passed him by. I would like to know how. I agree with you. Look what Michigan State and Iowa did this past weekend. Reminded me of Fulmer. You are correct. Run the ball and play good defense. Its the foundation of successful football.
 
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#36
#36
I said some years ago, when all this was going down, that:


  • Fulmer's loyalty to subpar assistants had become detrimental to the program
  • The inability to recognize two subpar O-line coaches (Stephens and Adkins) despite having been an O-lineman and an O-line coach was baffling, and largely responsible for the decline of the offense over the years
  • The recruiting and the on-field play both declined at exactly the point that other teams in-conference began to replace their own subpar head coaches
In some ways, Fulmer was like prime Mike Tyson: he could destroy anyone, but as soon as the opponents got a bit better, that was the end of it.


UT regularly pummeled Georgia when they had Ray Goff and Jim Donnan leading the way. Mark Richt got there, and it turned almost immediately.


In-conference, LSU went from Gerry DiNardo to Nick Saban and then Les Miles. Bammer went from Mike DuBose and Dennis Franchione to Nick Saban. South Carolina went from Brad Scott to Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier. Auburn went from Terry Bowden to Tommy Tuberville. Arkansas went from Danny Ford to Houston Nutt. 3rd-and-Chavis may work against meager opponents, but in a vastly improved SEC, it became a running joke.


And as all this was happening, as better head coaches and better assistants and better recruiters were filling in the conference, UT stagnated.
 
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#37
#37
madbamahater said:
Fulmer had lost it in recruiting. He was kind of the old man of the SEC at the time. He was losing to Vandie, etc.

The time had past Fulmer by. Let's not have convenient amnesia about his last few years. It was awful and you can almost argue that Fulmer started this mess.

But I will blame Hamilton no doubt. The way he did Fulmer was ****ty. I do think UT needed change. Fulmer had made some awful, awful staff decisions.

Hamilton is to blame for the whole Kiffin and Dooley debacle though....
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Not really accurate for his recruiting. He was fired with a top 10 class set-up (the Taj Boyd class). While it's true (according to Rivals) that his 2008 class was ranked a dismal 35th, and his 2006 class was 23rd, his 2005 class was 4th, and his 2007 class was 3rd nationally. Two top 5 classes in his last 4 years is better than anything since, including Butch's best two classes. Fulmer also had to do this against the backdrop of negative recruiting from all of the SEC coaches who pointed out Mike Hamilton's "expectations". If you will recall, Hamilton, in all of his Jeremy Foley envy, was doing interviews which put Fulmer on shaky ground, didn't extend his contract one year, etc. That had as much to do with Fulmer's recruiting woes as much as any laziness attributed to him. That laziness is largely a false narrative that fans create to make themselves gfeel better about divorcing themselves from an honorable and successful coach like Fulmer.

Fulmer probably would never have gotten UT to the summit again, but he would have been better than this cluster of fun that we have experienced for the past 9 years.
 
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#38
#38
VOLinPD said:
It wouldn't have mattered, and Kiffin actually brought in higher-ranked players in a short time (it is questionable how much those rankings mattered of course). Fulmer's super-conservative nature and poor in-game management would have only taken us so far, even if we had true freshman studs starting. If you will remember, he started Mark Levine over the likes of Jamal Lewis and Travis Henry against Florida.
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Only so far? You mean like undefeated national champs?

10+ wins in 9 of 16 years. I'll take his opinion about who should play over yours! How many 10+ win years have we had since?
 
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#39
#39
vols1221 said:
Why don't you look who he had commited when fired. Oh what could have been.
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Jacques McClendon was a monster OL and solid pro. Wasn’t developed very well at UT. All that had slipped. Cut would reestablish as much as possible but when he left again, the regression continued. Getting recruits wasn’t the issue. What happened after they arrived, however.
 
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#40
#40
dduncan4163 said:
Firing Phil was the right thing to do. Botching the new hires doesn't change the fact that he got complacent and let the game pass him by. There was a reason why other schools didn't get into a bidding war when we let him go..
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But we have a 3000+ post thread wanting to hire a guy who hasn't coached any level in a decade, and last coached at the college level in 1989 as a tight ends coach. But yeah, the game passed Fulmer by, but this guy is golden.
 
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#41
#41
VOLinPD said:
It wouldn't have mattered, and Kiffin actually brought in higher-ranked players in a short time (it is questionable how much those rankings mattered of course). Fulmer's super-conservative nature and poor in-game management would have only taken us so far, even if we had true freshman studs starting. If you will remember, he started Mark Levine over the likes of Jamal Lewis and Travis Henry against Florida.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately half of Kiffin's recruits had all the necessary ingredients to become starters at Custer State Penitentiary ... some talent, little gray matter, and even less in the way of ethics. Something like Kiffin was looking for a mirror image of himself.
 
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#43
#43
Ohio Vol said:
I said some years ago, when all this was going down, that:


  • Fulmer's loyalty to subpar assistants had become detrimental to the program
  • The inability to recognize two subpar O-line coaches (Stephens and Adkins) despite having been an O-lineman and an O-line coach was baffling, and largely responsible for the decline of the offense over the years
  • The recruiting and the on-field play both declined at exactly the point that other teams in-conference began to replace their own subpar head coaches
In some ways, Fulmer was like prime Mike Tyson: he could destroy anyone, but as soon as the opponents got a bit better, that was the end of it.


UT regularly pummeled Georgia when they had Ray Goff and Jim Donnan leading the way. Mark Richt got there, and it turned almost immediately.


In-conference, LSU went from Gerry DiNardo to Nick Saban and then Les Miles. Bammer went from Mike DuBose and Dennis Franchione to Nick Saban. South Carolina went from Brad Scott to Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier. Auburn went from Terry Bowden to Tommy Tuberville. Arkansas went from Danny Ford to Houston Nutt. 3rd-and-Chavis may work against meager opponents, but in a vastly improved SEC, it became a running joke.


And as all this was happening, as better head coaches and better assistants and better recruiters were filling in the conference, UT stagnated.
Click to expand...

Bla-bla-bla... You have NO idea what you're talking about! Look at his record Vs. all those teams! It was FL that was his weakness. They costed him at least 2 more NC games (95-96).
 
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#48
#48
whobethis16 said:
But we have a 3000+ post thread wanting to hire a guy who hasn't coached any level in a decade, and last coached at the college level in 1989 as a tight ends coach. But yeah, the game passed Fulmer by, but this guy is golden.
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I think it's closer to 300,000 posts, and over 10,000,000 views! I'm not sure why you hate on Gruden? No matter what your opinion. He would be thought of as a grand slam hire. By the entire football world. Do you make money evaluating coaches? I guess you're just smarter than 99.9% of the football community.
 
#49
#49
volcop1 said:
"Yes. I regret we did not fire him after the loss to Vandy in 2005."

you are both wrong and people like you are why we have been in a funk for the last 10 years
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How can I be what is wrong with the program when I had absolutely no input into his firing. What is wrong with the program is people blaming the fans for incompetent coaching. Same thing is going on right now by some factions. The fan base is getting tired of this idiotic thinking.
 
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#50
#50
JonGrudensAgent said:
Who else offered Fulmer a head coaching job?
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I never said he was offered a job. I said he got calls. Which he said thank you, but I'm happy here in Tennessee. You really believe that NOT 1 school in the country wouldn't have hired him, or at least called?
 
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