Official Global Warming thread (merged)

[Sandvol]

The difference between us is I explained the science (multiple times) before ragging on you. You fail to point out any flaws in what I've said and instead proceed to ad homs. That sounds like an admission of defeat

But seriously, what do you still not get?

Like I said I see you for who you are. A typical non-objective climate pseudo scientist.

 

[Sandvol]

What was the temperature in the Savannah area, or as close to the area, on March 3, 719000BC? I'm going to compare it to how tomorrow plays out. If you can grab me the mean global temperature that day it would be great as well. Thanks.

Also, what do you propose we do about our current climate situation?

Tum,
Their goal is to brow beat everyone into agreeing with their position and advancing their agenda like progressives have done for 100 years.

 

[BartW]

What was the temperature in the Savannah area, or as close to the area, on March 3, 719000BC? I'm going to compare it to how tomorrow plays out. If you can grab me the mean global temperature that day it would be great as well. Thanks.

Also, what do you propose we do about our current climate situation?

I can't tell you what it was that day, but I can tell you the mean global temperature for that epoch.

Curbing emissions is the only solution IMO. Climate geoengineering doesn't sound feasible or smart. How we curb emissions is a worthy debate but the science at this point is not.

 

[tumscalcium]

I can't tell you what it was that day, but I can tell you the mean global temperature for that epoch.

Curbing emissions is the only solution IMO. Climate geoengineering doesn't sound feasible or smart. How we curb emissions is a worthy debate but the science at this point is not.

Specifics please.

 

[BartW]

Like I said I see you for who you are. A typical non-objective climate pseudo scientist.

Tum,
Their goal is to brow beat everyone into agreeing with their position and advancing their agenda like progressives have done for 100 years.

I've been honest in trying to teach you the science. What are you hung up on? The differential plot? Or are you just shutting down because you've given up?

 

[BartW]

Specifics please.

I'm the resident scientist not politician. Global flat carbon tax might do it

A Price Is Right: Carbon Tax Has Very Broad, Bipartisan Support (Outside Of Congress)

 

[tumscalcium]

I'm the resident scientist not politician. Global flat carbon tax might do it

A Price Is Right: Carbon Tax Has Very Broad, Bipartisan Support (Outside Of Congress)

So.....tax people. Taxing people will reduce temperature? Are you serious?

I still have some dirt credits you have not purchased!

 

[Orangeslice13]

So.....tax people. Taxing people will reduce temperature? Are you serious?

I still have some dirt credits you have not purchased!

We are the richest country in history. We are in dept beyound what we can ever pay back. I'm sure additional taxes will solve all our problems. Real or climate related

 

[BartW]

So.....tax people. Taxing people will reduce temperature? Are you serious?

I still have some dirt credits you have not purchased!

A carbon tax will encourage development of green technologies and help curb emissions. Among many, several big oil companies have come out in support of a carbon tax. Read the link

 

[Orangeslice13]

A carbon tax will encourage development of green technologies and help curb emissions. Among many, several big oil companies have come out in support of a carbon tax. Read the link

Great idea let's push a more expensive form of energy in a shaky economy. At the same time let's leave nuecular and hydro off the list of "Green energy" producers.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Here's a better idea. Give individuals a tax break if they install solar or wind generators at their home. Let the home owner put unused energy back into the system.

 

[tumscalcium]

A carbon tax will encourage development of green technologies and help curb emissions. Among many, several big oil companies have come out in support of a carbon tax. Read the link

I did read it. Once i got done laughing I responded in kind.

You really think that taxing people even more to throw money at companies like Solyndra will somehow curb temperatures? You really believe that taxing people is going to help anything? Really???

I'm still waiting on that temperature.

 

[BartW]

Sandvol, consider this

Our total emissions are about twice the size of the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere. A third to a half of our emissions have been absorbed by the oceans (as measured by ocean acidification) and the remaining bit goes into other terrestrial sinks.

Also consider that:

"Environmental scientists measure the isotope signature of living and nonliving things by comparing 13C to 12C isotopes. This proportion, or ratio, of carbon isotopes (13C/12C) in plants is different from the ratio of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere. Because most plants prefer the 12C isotope, the ratio of 13C/12C in plants is lower than the ratio of 13C/12C in the atmosphere (where no biological process chooses one isotope over the other).

Burning plant material or fossilized plant material, such as fossil fuels, releases the 12C isotopes that plants absorbed through photosynthesis millions of years ago into the atmosphere in the form of CO2 molecules. The added 12C isotopes in the atmosphere decrease the overall 13C/12C ratio.

Environmental scientists compare the ratio of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere today to the ratio of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere over the last couple thousand years. (Fortunately, ice cores in Greenland and Antarctica have been trapping bubbles of atmospheric gas for thousands of years!)

What scientists have found is that while the total amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere have increased, the ratio of 13C/12C has gotten much lower since 1850 — right around the time when humans began burning fossil fuels for energy during the Industrial Revolution.

Before humans began burning fossil fuels, the carbon ratios naturally shifted about 0.03 percent over a couple thousand years. Over the past 150 years (since humans began burning fossil fuels), the carbon isotope signature of the atmosphere has shifted more than 0.15 percent.

Although this percentage appears small, it’s five times more than the natural shift. Scientists consider a change that big to be significant, or beyond what would occur due to random chance."

The human fingerprint in global warming

And this is only one of several stable isotope geochemical analyses that shows we are changing the composition of our atmosphere. How you can think that the CO2 increase is just a 'natural' feedback to 'natural' warming is beyond me.

 

[BartW]

I did read it. Once i got done laughing I responded in kind.

You really think that taxing people even more to throw money at companies like Solyndra will somehow curb temperatures? You really believe that taxing people is going to help anything? Really???

I'm still waiting on that temperature.

Yes. Of course you would bring up Solyndra. The vast majority of government funded alternative energy projects were successful. We looked at the statistics a couple of pages back.

Do you have a specific critique of the carbon tax besides lolomgrly?

And I didn't realize you wanted the temperature - I thought by "specifics" you meant policies that could curb emissions. Here, I'll let you read off the plot yourself:

Or you can consult the original work

Source 2 for bottom image: Jouzel, J., V. Masson-Delmotte, O. Cattani, G. Dreyfus, S. Falourd, G. Hoffmann, B. Minster, J. Nouet, J. M. Barnola, J. Chappellaz, H. Fischer, J. C. Gallet, S. Johnson, M. Leuenberger, L. Loulergue, D. Luethi, H. Oerter, F. Parrenin, G. Raisbeck, D. Raynaud, A. Schilt, J. Schwander, E. Selmo, R. Souchez, R. Spahni, B. Stauffer, J. P. Steffensen, B. Stenni, T. F. Stocker, J. L. Tison, M. Werner, and E. W. Wolff. 2007. Orbital and millennial Antarctic climate variability over the past 800,000 years. Science 317(5839):793-797.

800,000 Years of Temperature and Carbon Dioxide Records

 

[BartW]

Great idea let's push a more expensive form of energy in a shaky economy. At the same time let's leave nuecular and hydro off the list of "Green energy" producers.

Here's a better idea. Give individuals a tax break if they install solar or wind generators at their home. Let the home owner put unused energy back into the system.

I support hydro and nuclear. Should have said "alternative" energy I guess. I also agree with your second statement. That's already the case in NL and other European countries. I would guess the US has such a program already but I don't know

 

[tumscalcium]

Yes. Of course you would bring up Solyndra. The vast majority of government funded alternative energy projects were successful. We looked at the statistics a couple of pages back.

Do you have a specific critique of the carbon tax besides lolomgrly?

And I didn't realize you wanted the temperature - I thought by "specifics" you meant policies that could curb emissions. Here, I'll let you read off the plot yourself:

Or you can consult the original work

Source 2 for bottom image: Jouzel, J., V. Masson-Delmotte, O. Cattani, G. Dreyfus, S. Falourd, G. Hoffmann, B. Minster, J. Nouet, J. M. Barnola, J. Chappellaz, H. Fischer, J. C. Gallet, S. Johnson, M. Leuenberger, L. Loulergue, D. Luethi, H. Oerter, F. Parrenin, G. Raisbeck, D. Raynaud, A. Schilt, J. Schwander, E. Selmo, R. Souchez, R. Spahni, B. Stauffer, J. P. Steffensen, B. Stenni, T. F. Stocker, J. L. Tison, M. Werner, and E. W. Wolff. 2007. Orbital and millennial Antarctic climate variability over the past 800,000 years. Science 317(5839):793-797.

800,000 Years of Temperature and Carbon Dioxide Records

Literally none of this answered my question.

 

[BartW]

Literally none of this answered my question.

How so? What is your question then?

 

[Sandvol]

A carbon tax will encourage development of green technologies and help curb emissions. Among many, several big oil companies have come out in support of a carbon tax. Read the link

How are green technologies working in the Netherlands? Does your home have a windmill?

 

[Sandvol]

I've been honest in trying to teach you the science. What are you hung up on? The differential plot? Or are you just shutting down because you've given up?

I just realized you are a non-objective pseudo scientist with a liberal agenda. This is not about environmental concern but growing government. Your solution to a problem that isn't a problem is to grow the size of government. Go back to the Netherlands and build your windmills.

 

[BartW]

How are green technologies working in the Netherlands? Does your home have a windmill?

Solar and wind are pretty common. We also have some tidal energy and one nuclear plant. Overall I'd say we're behind other European countries but we don't have the capability to do hydropower or geothermal.

My home sadly did not have a windmill but a lot of farmers do have their own windmill(s) and sell their surplus electricity

 

[BartW]

I just realized you are a non-objective pseudo scientist with a liberal agenda. This is not about environmental concern but growing government. Your solution to a problem that isn't a problem is to grow the size of government. Go back to the Netherlands and build your windmills.

Point out what I've said that's inaccurate or admit you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm all about small government but government does have a function. Protecting the future of our country and our race is one of them.

 

[Sandvol]

You and I have a very different view about what government is all about. Protecting us from some phantom event isn't one of them.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Solar and wind are pretty common. We also have some tidal energy and one nuclear plant. Overall I'd say we're behind other European countries but we don't have the capability to do hydropower or geothermal.

My home sadly did not have a windmill but a lot of farmers do have their own windmill(s) and sell their surplus electricity

Solar and wind farms will never be the answer. What do you do when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow? You still have to back everything with hydro and nuke. So why do farms at all. It's a waste of time and money. Individual basis is the answer but how will the libs get their friends rich if they can't give them billions to run companies?

Just like everything else in climate change, it's about politics and not about the climate

 

[Orangeslice13]

Here's the solar bank I built for a farm in Cleveland Tn.

 

[BartW]

You and I have a very different view about what government is all about. Protecting us from some phantom event isn't one of them.

Your lack of content and snide remarks reek of defeat

"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

I think preventing a global catastrophe falls under the role of government. If one of the Near-Earth Asteroids we're tracking looks to be on a collision course with Earth, would we ask NASA to deflect it or hope some entreprenear takes care of it (or just cross our fingers and pray it misses)?